Is Obama a muslim?

[The Man]

So because I'm intolerant of bigotry, that makes me a bigot? :24:

You need to swap the words around then you will have it correct.

 

[Mercury]

So, I am going to take this even further and post the question ...

What should the United States do with Islamic Extremist Terrorism? It is pretty obvious that entering predominantly Islamic nations to wipe out its government and then stay to help setup a new one is not too successful in decreasing anti-west sentiment. Why not leave the entire region to itself? Many would say because of our alliance to Israel. So then why not conquer all of the Middle East? Make all the nations into Vassals to the United States ... of course I think we all could say why this option is not viable. So what exactly can the U.S. and allies do?

 

[The Man]

So, I am going to take this even further and post the question ...

What should the United States do with Islamic Extremist Terrorism? It is pretty obvious that entering predominantly Islamic nations to wipe out its government and then stay to help setup a new one is not too successful in decreasing anti-west sentiment. Why not leave the entire region to itself? Many would say because of our alliance to Israel. So then why not conquer all of the Middle East? Make all the nations into Vassals to the United States ... of course I think we all could say why this option is not viable. So what exactly can the U.S. and allies do?

Intervention in a nutshell
The AQ and the taliban are expanding fast.
Hate is taught in school for starters so its just a small jump to terrorism..as the values are already made in the childs mind
The biggest single accomplishment would be intervention with schooling.
The problem is how...as this wont set rather well and the offer would be refused.

leaving the region to itself has no gain due to the rapid growth of the Taliban and Aq...I would have agreed 30 years ago however.
As far as conquering the middle east?.....Isnt going to happen..they have alot of will and determination..we pale in comparison.

Its tough...all we can do is do the baby steps as we have been doing and hope that some great respected Islamic leader makes an announcement regarding Islam and other religions living in harmony.
Just like the Bible the Koran can be interpreted in more than ways than one...so what we need is a great Islamic leader to state that passages such and such are to be interpreted as {peaceful}.

In the end they are people just like us....the difference lies in direction.

Arabs are typically very smart,many already know something is wrong but cant do anything about it due to fear of execution for speaking

 

[Mercury]

leaving the region to itself has no gain due to the rapid growth of the Taliban and Aq...I would have agreed 30 years ago however.
As far as conquering the middle east?.....Isnt going to happen..they have alot of will and determination..we pale in comparison.

Its tough...all we can do is do the baby steps as we have been doing and hope that some great respected Islamic leader makes an announcement regarding Islam and other religions living in harmony.
Just like the Bible the Koran can be interpreted in more than ways than one...so what we need is a great Islamic leader to state that passages such and such are to be interpreted as {peaceful}.

One can only hope. I like the idea of an Islamic Leader coming forth and saying, "Whoa! Violence is not the answer!" I could see such a thing happen as history has had plenty of such wonderful people.

Historically speaking, that region has such a violent and rocky past ... "hope" is definitely fading. It is hard to gain people's trust when such horrible events continue to happen on both sides.

 

[The Man]

One can only hope. I like the idea of an Islamic Leader coming forth and saying, "Whoa! Violence is not the answer!" I could see such a thing happen as history has had plenty of such wonderful people.

Historically speaking, that region has such a violent and rocky past ... "hope" is definitely fading. It is hard to gain people's trust when such horrible events continue to happen on both sides.

For sure...the bad seem to be growing fast ..very dangerous with today available weaponry...Germ warfare is as much if not a larger concern than nuclear threat.
Small unstable nations now in possession of nuclear weapons...Taliban and AQ openly operating in some of these nations.
It is very possible for a member of the Taliban or AQ to gain position to these places...Just as we have had members of our military turn out to be the enemy and make that chant before killing our soldiers.
Its not getting any safer as the extremists are growing and these small nations become more advanced in weaponry...its just a matter of time

 

[Mercury]

I don't like the politician, Obama, but in regards to this thread, the issue should be.... do his religious beliefs negatively affect our nation.
That I haven't seen.

A good point ... plus, how much damage would he be allowed to cause without anyone noticing?

 

[Stone]

Intervention in a nutshell
The AQ and the taliban are expanding fast.
Hate is taught in school for starters so its just a small jump to terrorism..as the values are already made in the childs mind
The biggest single accomplishment would be intervention with schooling.
The problem is how...as this wont set rather well and the offer would be refused.

leaving the region to itself has no gain due to the rapid growth of the Taliban and Aq...I would have agreed 30 years ago however.
As far as conquering the middle east?.....Isnt going to happen..they have alot of will and determination..we pale in comparison.

Its tough...all we can do is do the baby steps as we have been doing and hope that some great respected Islamic leader makes an announcement regarding Islam and other religions living in harmony.
Just like the Bible the Koran can be interpreted in more than ways than one...so what we need is a great Islamic leader to state that passages such and such are to be interpreted as {peaceful}.

In the end they are people just like us....the difference lies in direction.

Arabs are typically very smart,many already know something is wrong but cant do anything about it due to fear of execution for speaking

Intervention in a nutshell

This is the polarizing effect that is turning a large portion of the ME, Africa, Southeast Asia and elements of the old Islamic Soviet Union against us.
It's an issue of perceived empire building.

The AQ and the taliban are expanding fast.

Yes, they are.
It seems obvious that the invasion into Iraq was seen as empire building and the US lost considerable sympathy that existed in those regions.
Politics, religion and propaganda ......and of course our need for unrestricted access to their natural resources ( oil ) became negatives in our attempt to suppress terrorism as the US became imaged as an invader.

Hate is taught in school for starters so its just a small jump to terrorism..as the values are already made in the childs mind
The biggest single accomplishment would be intervention with schooling.
The problem is how...as this wont set rather well and the offer would be refused.

Agreed.
But it has to be tailored to their culture using their morality and ethics.
However, it likely wouldn't be presented that way because our culture ( ethics and morality ) is the standard our society sees as the solution.
I'm not arguing to not attempt proper schooling, just pointing out the barriers.

leaving the region to itself has no gain due to the rapid growth of the Taliban and Aq...I would have agreed 30 years ago however.

It's a damned if you do/ damned if you don't scenario.
From a realistic POV given the political and economic conditions of the world at the moment, containment may be the only practical approach along with supporting governments that resist, but not with military involvement unless the UN were to actually function as originally intended.

Its tough...all we can do is do the baby steps as we have been doing and hope that some great respected Islamic leader makes an announcement regarding Islam and other religions living in harmony.
Just like the Bible the Koran can be interpreted in more than ways than one...so what we need is a great Islamic leader to state that passages such and such are to be interpreted as {peaceful}.

I see that as a reasonable position. It's just that the politics in the ME aren't proceeding in small steps.
Iraq is still in turmoil, Afghanistan a battlefield, Iran a hot spot and much of North Africa and ME facing the instability we call the Arab Spring.
The Arab Spring is a breeding ground for terrorism with extremist groups competing to fill power vacuums for control.

Worth the read just to see the scope of this Arab Spring: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Spring

all we can do is do the baby steps as we have been doing

The US hasn't been doing 'baby steps'.
And isn't at the present.
A term I hear , but not often......America's Shadow War.
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/01/battleground-africa/

It might wind up that way the further we get into debt, but that would be an economic decision from the inability to be involved.

In the end they are people just like us....the difference lies in direction.

As a culture, I disagree.
Ethics and morality.......whether you agree with theirs or not, they generally live by strict codes of conduct.
Whether you approve of our culture or not, we generally live by personal interpretations of what is acceptable.
Pretty extreme contrasts.

Just like the Bible the Koran can be interpreted in more than ways than one...so what we need is a great Islamic leader to state that passages such and such are to be interpreted as {peaceful}.

We both need more intelligent, wise leaders.
In both politics and religion.

 

[The Man]

This is the polarizing effect that is turning a large portion of the ME, Africa, Southeast Asia and elements of the old Islamic Soviet Union against us.
It's an issue of perceived empire building.



Yes, they are.
It seems obvious that the invasion into Iraq was seen as empire building and the US lost considerable sympathy that existed in those regions.
Politics, religion and propaganda ......and of course our need for unrestricted access to their natural resources ( oil ) became negatives in our attempt to suppress terrorism as the US became imaged as an invader.



Agreed.
But it has to be tailored to their culture using their morality and ethics.
However, it likely wouldn't be presented that way because our culture ( ethics and morality ) is the standard our society sees as the solution.
I'm not arguing to not attempt proper schooling, just pointing out the barriers.



It's a damned if you do/ damned if you don't scenario.
From a realistic POV given the political and economic conditions of the world at the moment, containment may be the only practical approach along with supporting governments that resist, but not with military involvement unless the UN were to actually function as originally intended.



I see that as a reasonable position. It's just that the politics in the ME aren't proceeding in small steps.
Iraq is still in turmoil, Afghanistan a battlefield, Iran a hot spot and much of North Africa and ME facing the instability we call the Arab Spring.
The Arab Spring is a breeding ground for terrorism with extremist groups competing to fill power vacuums for control.

Worth the read just to see the scope of this Arab Spring: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Spring



The US hasn't been doing 'baby steps'.
And isn't at the present.
A term I hear , but not often......America's Shadow War.
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/01/battleground-africa/

It might wind up that way the further we get into debt, but that would be an economic decision from the inability to be involved.




As a culture, I disagree.
Ethics and morality.......whether you agree with theirs or not, they generally live by strict codes of conduct.
Whether you approve of our culture or not, we generally live by personal interpretations of what is acceptable.
Pretty extreme contrasts.



We both need more intelligent, wise leaders.
In both politics and religion.

This is the polarizing effect that is turning a large portion of the ME, Africa, Southeast Asia and elements of the old Islamic Soviet Union against us.
It's an issue of perceived empire building.

Yes,
They do seem to have issue with that of the west in regard...to put it simply our presence is not wanted.

Yes, they are.
It seems obvious that the invasion into Iraq was seen as empire building and the US lost considerable sympathy that existed in those regions.
Politics, religion and propaganda ......and of course our need for unrestricted access to their natural resources ( oil ) became negatives in our attempt to suppress terrorism as the US became imaged as an invader.

Iraq was terrible timing...party due to invasion of frustration...Regardless of all the restrictions in place Saddam always managed to work around them.
We werent beating him down with the embargo etcs into a voluntary submission...During the invasion we learned just how much the west is hated Although they hated Saddam an invasion felt just like that....you are on our home turf..Loyalty with the people favored Saddam {which would have been much different if another muslim nation did the invading}

Agreed.
But it has to be tailored to their culture using their morality and ethics.
However, it likely wouldn't be presented that way because our culture ( ethics and morality ) is the standard our society sees as the solution.
I'm not arguing to not attempt proper schooling, just pointing out the barriers.

The problem is The Koran and only the Koran is taught in the early years.
The passages of hate and violence aren't skipped nor instructed to be used only as historic value..The others clap when chanting to kill the Jews.
It is a large barrier indeed.................What makes it worse is much of the schooling is funded by the thugs..so it is no surprise what is taught.

It's a damned if you do/ damned if you don't scenario.
From a realistic POV given the political and economic conditions of the world at the moment, containment may be the only practical approach along with supporting governments that resist, but not with military involvement unless the UN were to actually function as originally intended.

How to contain without being on foot?...Restrictions seem to have been failing due to loyalty from neighboring nations

I see that as a reasonable position. It's just that the politics in the ME aren't proceeding in small steps.
Iraq is still in turmoil, Afghanistan a battlefield, Iran a hot spot and much of North Africa and ME facing the instability we call the Arab Spring.
The Arab Spring is a breeding ground for terrorism with extremist groups competing to fill power vacuums for control.

Worth the read just to see the scope of this Arab Spring: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Spring

Very good link as it packs everything together rather than chase bits and pieces...there was much I didnt know about until reading the link....The problem has now gone from very bad to terrible.
I will be using that link for people that do not understand the seriousness of what is going on abroad...or be doing further research with it.

The US hasn't been doing 'baby steps'.
And isn't at the present.
A term I hear , but not often......America's Shadow War.
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012...ground-africa/

It might wind up that way the further we get into debt, but that would be an economic decision from the inability to be involved.

I refer to them as baby steps{picking away at AQ} mainly through intelligence gathering then required force...Verses a ww3 for instance.

As a culture, I disagree.
Ethics and morality.......whether you agree with theirs or not, they generally live by strict codes of conduct.
Whether you approve of our culture or not, we generally live by personal interpretations of what is acceptable.
Pretty extreme contrasts.

True..that is where the proper direction comes in at...It is still my belief they they are just still people and the violence isnt genetic per say but is a result of their culture itself....Proper direction would be a big aid..but this would essentially require overthrown Govts as to take over the schools and allow freedom of speech and religion.

We both need more intelligent, wise leaders.
In both politics and religion.

Does Clinton have a son?

 

[Alien Allen]

The region is a cesspool of intolerance

Let Israel do whatever it wants to defend itself and just get the hell out

We have enough oil and gas to get by for many years. Once Israel and the Muslims wipe each other out then we can send in drilling crews in hazmat suits to get the oil in the region. Let that oil be multinational

 

[The Man]

The region is a cesspool of intolerance

Let Israel do whatever it wants to defend itself and just get the hell out

We have enough oil and gas to get by for many years. Once Israel and the Muslims wipe each other out then we can send in drilling crews in hazmat suits to get the oil in the region. Let that oil be multinational

The region is a cesspool of intolerance

Only a few would disagree with that

Let Israel do whatever it wants to defend itself and just get the hell out

Why not back em?...let them be the bad guys for a change and we just merely be the ally
There is much unrest scattered abroad/ Israel if nothing else makes a good "port"

We have enough oil and gas to get by for many years.

But we arent drilling pumping and refining it at the rate we use it..thus why we use ME oil.

Once Israel and the Muslims wipe each other out then we can send in drilling crews in hazmat suits to get the oil in the region

ROFL

Let that oil be multinational

But why?...shouldnt those that wore the suit now control the oil?

Its not all about the oil as one is led to believe its about unstable nations and possible effects with the rest of the globe

 

[Alien Allen]

I have nothing against Israel. We can morally support them but that is it. Let them live or die on their own. It is too polarizing to be too closely aligned.

We have plenty of oil and gas Man. It is now our largest export. We can more from Canada than the mideast and can continue to. Still until we come up with an alternative fuel source we will always be concerned about the mideast. Like I said let em nuke the area so nobody wins. Then hazmat can drill. And it should be multinational so that nobody can come up with the bullshit anymore that all we want is to control world oil.

 

[The Man]

I have nothing against Israel. We can morally support them but that is it. Let them live or die on their own. It is too polarizing to be too closely aligned.

We have plenty of oil and gas Man. It is now our largest export. We can more from Canada than the mideast and can continue to. Still until we come up with an alternative fuel source we will always be concerned about the mideast. Like I said let em nuke the area so nobody wins. Then hazmat can drill. And it should be multinational so that nobody can come up with the bullshit anymore that all we want is to control world oil.

I know we get a large supply from Canada..thus why IMO to much emphasis is placed with our involvement in the ME with oil
I dont agree with letting the misguided just slaughter Israel...With that logic would you also approve of letting the Christians merely slaughter the Muslims?

Never mind...I now see you "nuke em"....I only believe in that as a last action ..I would much rather see the people live and with modern style government in place.

As far as hazmat etc....its not that simple..the areas would be radioactive for many many centuries..uninhabitable...where do you propose the workers live for instance?

Oil would be contaminated with radiation unless it all was piped and then the plumbing would have to be designed to not pass radiation...very expensive and complicated ...let alone have to cross other nations that may not want the pipelines going through their nations

 

[Stone]

........................


How to contain without being on foot?...Restrictions seem to have been failing due to loyalty from neighboring nations



Very good link as it packs everything together rather than chase bits and pieces...there was much I didnt know about until reading the link....The problem has now gone from very bad to terrible.
I will be using that link for people that do not understand the seriousness of what is going on abroad...or be doing further research with it.




I refer to them as baby steps{picking away at AQ} mainly through intelligence gathering then required force...Verses a ww3 for instance.


True..that is where the proper direction comes in at...It is still my belief they they are just still people and the violence isnt genetic per say but is a result of their culture itself....Proper direction would be a big aid..but this would essentially require overthrown Govts as to take over the schools and allow freedom of speech and religion.


Does Clinton have a son?

How to contain without being on foot?...Restrictions seem to have been failing due to loyalty from neighboring nations

That's likely a condition resulting from Bush polarizing that portion of the world and Obama continuing it.
Realistically....those countries are effectively lost to us.

Very good link as it packs everything together rather than chase bits and pieces...there was much I didnt know about until reading the link....The problem has now gone from very bad to terrible.

Destabilizing that area merely put it up for grabs. Might be some good from it, but likely more problems from new players ( rulers ).

I refer to them as baby steps{picking away at AQ} mainly through intelligence gathering then required force...Verses a ww3 for instance.

Makes sense.
But our military presence in and near those nations has probably not driven a desired response. I suspect more and greater rejection of that presence because of the imagery of Iraq and Afghanistan. The propaganda war .....over there....hurts us from that pov with the locals.
Lose the support of those locals ....locals and terrorists begin to merge in the eye of the occupier and winning a war on terrorism becomes incredibly more difficult.
Iraq should be the lesson on that one. But now that's also happening in Afghanistan and likely to follow our troops where ever they go in the ME and North Africa.
The world needs to respond under one banner.....the UN....but I'm doubtful that's going to happen.

Does Clinton have a son?

Probably

 

[Mercury]

The world needs to respond under one banner.....the UN....but I'm doubtful that's going to happen.

THAT is EXACTLY what needs to happen!