Is it ok to be proud of your skin color?

[All Else Failed]

Actually babies born into gangs that are in impoverished areas basically are gang members straight out of the womb since they will be raised by gang members.

 

[Elle]

Actually babies born into gangs that are in impoverished areas basically are gang members straight out of the womb since they will be raised by gang members.

YES! This is totally true. Ever heard of the term ""Blood Drops?"

This is the newborn child of a Blood and a Bloodette!

If forced sterilization would EVER be justified...

D

 

[All Else Failed]

I always keep missing your posts! haha

 

[Elle]

You will learn soon enough, son.

 

[skyblue]

so whats wrong with the old adage that if you want a better life you work hard.......whatever field its in.......i mean,america's a prime examle of this.......many of your most gifted atheletes were from ghetto type areas but they stayed out of trouble and worked hard at what they do.......in fact they're achievements benifitted society in that other kids could be inspired

 

[Elle]

Ian, go to the other thread...there are many views on that.

 

[Cotton]

so whats wrong with the old adage that if you want a better life you work hard.......whatever field its in.......i mean,america's a prime examle of this.......many of your most gifted atheletes were from ghetto type areas but they stayed out of trouble and worked hard at what they do.......in fact they're achievements benifitted society in that other kids could be inspired

No sir we can't have that!

 

[All Else Failed]

A few examples of people getting out of the ghetto doesn't mean all have thew type of resources that were available to the ones who did.

 

[dt3]

A few examples of people getting out of the ghetto doesn't mean all have the type of resources that were available to the ones who did.

I did a quick Google of "gang member recidivism". Here's a fascinating read for you AEF. It's a study done on gang-member recidivism in Illinois, I believe in 2000.

http://www.icjia.state.il.us/public/pdf/oga/gang_oga.pdf

Within 3 years of release, 75% of released prisoners who were affiliated with a gang were rearrested.

Put another way, after statistically controlling for the influence of these other factors, such as gang members being younger and more likely to be unemployed, undereducated, and involved with drugs or other crime, gang members were three times more likely to get rearrested while on probation than non-gang members.​

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Now, you're always quick to point out the educational opportunities available in US prisons. So why do these people go back to the gang lifestyle after they get out, instead of using the opportunities made available to them in prison?

At the core of it, isn't that a CHOICE they make, to stay in their same lifestyle instead of using every tool at their disposal to better themselves?

 

[Peter Parka]

I did a quick Google of "gang member recidivism". Here's a fascinating read for you AEF. It's a study done on gang-member recidivism in Illinois, I believe in 2000.

http://www.icjia.state.il.us/public/pdf/oga/gang_oga.pdf

Within 3 years of release, 75% of released prisoners who were affiliated with a gang were rearrested.

I'm only surprised it's not more. From what I've seen and read about American prisons, gang warfare is even more intense in prison than it is on the streets!

 

[skyblue]

No sir we can't have that!

but you do have that......every olympic games you have atheletes that come from impoverished backgrounds

 

[All Else Failed]

I did a quick Google of "gang member recidivism". Here's a fascinating read for you AEF. It's a study done on gang-member recidivism in Illinois, I believe in 2000.

http://www.icjia.state.il.us/public/pdf/oga/gang_oga.pdf

Within 3 years of release, 75% of released prisoners who were affiliated with a gang were rearrested.


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Now, you're always quick to point out the educational opportunities available in US prisons. So why do these people go back to the gang lifestyle after they get out, instead of using the opportunities made available to them in prison?

At the core of it, isn't that a CHOICE they make, to stay in their same lifestyle instead of using every tool at their disposal to better themselves?

They probably value living without the thought of being killed for trying to leave. Also, they might try to make a normal life after prison and it may not work out, thus a relapse back into gang activity.

Plus, the educational programs in most US systems NEED to be improved.

 

[Peter Parka]

Plus, the educational programs in most US systems NEED to be improved.

Amen to that! From what Ryan has told me, I think American prisons need to seriously enforce mandatory education.

 

[dt3]

They probably value living without the thought of being killed for trying to leave. Also, they might try to make a normal life after prison and it may not work out, thus a relapse back into gang activity.

So you're saying that not having an easy way out of the gang life excuses them from not trying to get out of the gang life? I'm not buying that.

Your argument all along has been that they don't choose to live in poverty. I'm sure you agree that the gang lifestyle lends itself to living in poverty, right? Then how is choosing to stay in the gang any different than choosing to stay in poverty?

 

[All Else Failed]

So you're saying that not having an easy way out of the gang life excuses them from not trying to get out of the gang life? I'm not buying that.

Your argument all along has been that they don't choose to live in poverty. I'm sure you agree that the gang lifestyle lends itself to living in poverty, right? Then how is choosing to stay in the gang any different than choosing to stay in poverty?

I'm not saying an easy way out, but a practical one that will give them enough opportunity to stay out and far away from the gang. That though, would involve having to move them away from the area.

In some situations you're forced to stay in gangs, choice isn't even a factor. Either you stay in, or face brutality.

 

[dt3]

I'm not saying an easy way out, but a practical one that will give them enough opportunity to stay out and far away from the gang. That though, would involve having to move them away from the area.

In some situations you're forced to stay in gangs, choice isn't even a factor. Either you stay in, or face brutality.

Alright then, I'll phrase it this way. You've said it's not their fault they're in a gang, because they can be born into them. You've said it's not their fault they stay in the gang, because that could make them a target.

So my question to you is: At what point do they need to accept responsibility for what they do with their life?

 

[boxer810]

Alright then, I'll phrase it this way. You've said it's not their fault they're in a gang, because they can be born into them. You've said it's not their fault they stay in the gang, because that could make them a target.

So my question to you is: At what point do they need to accept responsibility for what they do with their life?

BAM!! Donnie, you hit the nail on the head! This has been the point that I have been trying to make throughout this entire thread! AEF claims that those born into poverty have disadvantages in their lives. Oh wah wah the system discriminates, wah wah this and that. I was born into a poor family, my parents didn't have shit until I was grown and out of the house. I took it upon myself at an early age to make sure that I had better than my parents did when they were first out on their own. I worked hard, I busted my ass, I fought the system. If I can do it and SUCCEED, why can't they? And don't give me the crap about how black people are so persecuted and they have it so much harder than white folks do. I had it just as hard. It's all about taking responsibility for your own actions and your own life. THAT is the bottom line.

 

[All Else Failed]

Alright then, I'll phrase it this way. You've said it's not their fault they're in a gang, because they can be born into them. You've said it's not their fault they stay in the gang, because that could make them a target.

So my question to you is: At what point do they need to accept responsibility for what they do with their life?

They probably want to, but aforementioned things keep some from doing so.

BAM!! Donnie, you hit the nail on the head! This has been the point that I have been trying to make throughout this entire thread! AEF claims that those born into poverty have disadvantages in their lives. Oh wah wah the system discriminates, wah wah this and that. I was born into a poor family, my parents didn't have shit until I was grown and out of the house. I took it upon myself at an early age to make sure that I had better than my parents did when they were first out on their own. I worked hard, I busted my ass, I fought the system. If I can do it and SUCCEED, why can't they? And don't give me the crap about how black people are so persecuted and they have it so much harder than white folks do. I had it just as hard. It's all about taking responsibility for your own actions and your own life. THAT is the bottom line.

You weren't black and you don't have several hundred hears of discrimination behind you.

 

[dt3]

They probably want to, but aforementioned things keep some from doing so.

That's not answering what I asked:

At what point do they need to accept responsibility for what they do with their life?

Or are you saying they probably want to accept responsibility but are unable to do so? Because I think that's a complete load of crap.

 

[All Else Failed]

That's not answering what I asked:



Or are you saying they probably want to accept responsibility but are unable to do so? Because I think that's a complete load of crap.

They most likely do, because no sane person wants to live in poverty. I am saying that there are things in the way from letting them advance after they decide to take responsibility.