Is God A Hypocrite?

[TheOriginalJames]

Here is how I view that issue:
We don't have omnipresence, but God does. Just because he knows past, present, and future doesn't mean that we do not have freewill. Very simply speaking of course, I may know that my child is going to pick a candy bar instead of an apple if presented with the choice. But just because I know what the child is going to do does not mean that I have interfered with their free will to make the choice.

I believe that God has made His will known to us. And it is in that understanding that I believe it is for us to choose whether we are going to move up along side God's will and attempt to let Him work through and in us or if we are going to continue to try and accomplish everything in our own selfish will.

(This is strictly what I believe for myself and my life. Excuse me if my answer is too spiritually worded, it is just a part of who I am. I hope you kwim)

First bold: If he already knows our choices, then supposedly he's already made those choices for us. Meaning anything we decide isn't technically up to us to decide. That's my problem.

Second bold: That's fine and dandy for you, but if God has made his will known to us, then we don't have the free will to choose what we want without facing the consequences to squelching his view and choosing for our own.

 

[GraceAbounds]

First bold: If he already knows our choices, then supposedly he's already made those choices for us. Meaning anything we decide isn't technically up to us to decide. That's my problem.

As I explained in my previous post, knowing our choices and Him making them for us are not the same thing. (at least not in how I believe and understand it to be)

if God has made his will known to us, then we don't have the free will to choose what we want without facing the consequences to squelching his view and choosing for our own.

I can make my will known to you, as I am right now basically. It is not going to stop you from having free will to disagree with me. And if God is indeed the creator, like a loving parent is, well of course there will be consequences for disobedience. It doesn't change the fact that you still have free will to lie, cheat, etc. regardless of the consequences.

 

[TheOriginalJames]

In a sense, I'm not disagreeing with you in the slightest. I'm just wondering if I'm explaining my point to you well enough. Sometimes an explanation that makes sense to me doesn't to others. lol

What I mean is, how can he know our future choices if our will is free to make them?

Free will is something like the want to love someone. You can't make someone love you, but he already knows that they will in the future.

To me, in essence, that is God making our choices for us before we even come to that bridge to cross. So how is that freewill? He set that single wide path for us to take without any forks or u-turns... but it's our choice to follow it? It contradicts itself.

 

[GraceAbounds]

In a sense, I'm not disagreeing with you in the slightest. I'm just wondering if I'm explaining my point to you well enough. Sometimes an explanation that makes sense to me doesn't to others. lol

Oh it is quite ok if you do disagree with me. This is one of those subjects where people have so many views on it, it isn't even funny. I'm just trying to throw my thoughts out there, just like you. And I know what you mean about your explanation making perfect sense to you and that it is sometimes difficult to truly get others to understand exactly where you are coming from. I feel the same way with a lot of my spiritual explanations. How am I suppose to get someone else to understand my experiences and over a decade of studies in a 3 minute posts. Things like that just can't fully be explained in that way. It takes knowing someone to get stuff like that across I think.

What I mean is, how can he know our future choices if our will is free to make them?

I knew you'd come back and post here, continuing the convo. My knowledge of that didn't interfere with your free will. (this is of course simply speaking)

Free will is something like the want to love someone. You can't make someone love you, but he already knows that they will in the future.

I'm not getting this statement.

To me, in essence, that is God making our choices for us before we even come to that bridge to cross. So how is that freewill? He set that single wide path for us to take without any forks or u-turns... but it's our choice to follow it? It contradicts itself.

I see what you are saying here, I just don't view it the same way though.

Example I can be in all places at all times, therefore I can 'see' things happening - it doesn't mean that I made a choice for anyone. (that's just how I view it though)

 

[rio^Love]

God hates you all because you touch yourself at night.

 

[All Else Failed]

When you realize that everything you do, say, think and experience is ALL just stimuli interacting with your brain, and your brain controls your body with chemical reactions that you have no control over, then free will begins to slowly sink. Social conditioning is incredibly huge in this area too.

 

[All Else Failed]

well, it is social conditioning mostly......

 

[GraceAbounds]

I could go back and reply to all of the rebuttals to some statements I made but I am not going to. The reason is because there is never going to be a resolution and no one will ever understand someone's POV on this subject. I often wonder if the topic of religion and God should just be taboo for a year or something. It becomes a repetition of the "same old-same old", thread after thread.
What I would like the non-believers to know is this. And don't try to refute me, because I won't play cat-n-mouse with you on it.
What MUST be present in a believer is a degree of faith. That is not something you can learn, not something you get from a book, not something that is given to you, not something that is forced upon you and not something that someone convinces you to possess. I myself cannot explain it. It is simply there. Call it social conditioning if you want, it doesn't matter what you think as a non-believer. The believers know exactly what I am talking about and it is a tremendous gift. DO NOT INSULT IT. Watch your mouth and have some respect. You don't have to understand it, but there is no reason to try to convince me or other believers that my soul is false.

Really good post and agree'd.

 

[All Else Failed]

*SIGH*

You didn't listen. I said you can call it whatever you like, but it is a term called faith, which you do not have and apparently cannot comprehend. So no more out of you please. Yes, that's right, I am requesting that you no longer respond to my comments. Thankyouverymuch.

No actually, I was a VERY strict Roman Catholic for the first half of my life, so I know what "faith" is.

 

[GraceAbounds]

No actually, I was a VERY strict Roman Catholic for the first half of my life, so I know what "faith" is.

You can go to church your whole life and not feel or know what faith is hun. That is why it is called a gift.

 

[All Else Failed]

You can go to church your whole life and not feel or know what faith is hun. That is why it is called a gift.

No, believe me, I *WAS* very religious. I attributed everything good that happened to me to be God's workings, and I pretty much read a bible passage everyday before going to school.

So what happened?

Sorry If I seemed rude in the above post, I didn't mean to come off that way.


But yeah, my de-conversion took place over years. I just started researching things and thats how it came about.

 

[EVERYBODY KILLA]

God only wants a majority of pure souls around himself. You wouldent want to eat a chicken wing that fell on the side walk right? God doesnt want a demented serial killer chilling around him. Same way basicly.

 

[All Else Failed]

God only wants a majority of pure souls around himself. You wouldent want to eat a chicken wing that fell on the side walk right? God doesnt want a demented serial killer chilling around him. Same way basicly.

Actually, if a serial killer genuinely feels sorry for what he did, accepts Christ, and he repents, he can still make it into heaven. I mean, its not like god can say much for himself, he's the one who committed various atrocities himself.

 

[EVERYBODY KILLA]

Actually, if a serial killer genuinely feels sorry for what he did, accepts Christ, and he repents, he can still make it into heaven. I mean, its not like god can say much for himself, he's the one who committed various atrocities himself.

lETS SAY IM TALKING ABOUT ONE THAT DID NOT REPENT But yeah good point

 

[All Else Failed]

Well then they wouldn't make it into heaven I suppose.

 

[Reaver]

God only wants a majority of pure souls around himself. You wouldent want to eat a chicken wing that fell on the side walk right? God doesnt want a demented serial killer chilling around him. Same way basicly.

isn't that kind of going against the whole idea that anyone who repents and accepts christ can go to heaven? God can either be picky about who he lets in or he can open himself to everyone who is willing, but it can't be both.

 

[Maritxu]

When you realize that everything you do, say, think and experience is ALL just stimuli interacting with your brain, and your brain controls your body with chemical reactions that you have no control over, then free will begins to slowly sink. Social conditioning is incredibly huge in this area too.

Well, I think I am in the place to talk about this and I disagree. It is true that a big part of out personality, cognition etc is based on our experience, it is true that a lot of things we do are influenced by those cognitions. But it's wrong to think that a mentally healthy human being, with a good moral developement can't chose. We can even change our reality, improve what we do wrong and change for the better.
You think when God judges he would not take into account how free you were when you took a certain decission?

 

[Maritxu]

I don't believe in Hell btw. I just thought I'd make it clear, lol

 

[All Else Failed]

Well, I think I am in the place to talk about this and I disagree. It is true that a big part of out personality, cognition etc is based on our experience, it is true that a lot of things we do are influenced by those cognitions. But it's wrong to think that a mentally healthy human being, with a good moral developement can't chose. We can even change our reality, improve what we do wrong and change for the better.
You think when God judges he would not take into account how free you were when you took a certain decission?

Where do those morals come from? We are not born with morals or ethics, we learn them or adopt them, mostly from out peers and society. You even changing your reality is simply a chemical response to stimuli.

Take it this way, you can experience nothing without chemical responses you cannot control.

 

[All Else Failed]

Disagree.
Would you agree that IF there is a God, that you can experience the divine without a physical chemical interaction? This is an "IF" question. Your statement to the contrary is only relevant in the absence of God.

There is no experience if you can't take it in through your sense. The only way humans can experience anything is through stimuli, that includes this supposed "divine".