Is becoming like God good or evil?

[robdawg1]

I was trying so hard to be logical and intellectual in this conversation, but it seems like that is neither required nor desired to the creator of this thread.

 

[Stone]

I was trying so hard to be logical and intellectual in this conversation, but it seems like that is neither required nor desired to the creator of this thread.

From my experiences in GIA's threads, logic is exactly what he avoids and plays a game of sophistry and contextual abuse. Many of his video links don't seem to back up his claims and the one's that do are often claims of absolutism generated by singular anecdotal comments.


It's also difficult, more like impossible, to carry on an intellectual conversation with an individual that is so arrogant they claim divinity with obvious intellectual superiority......... and anyone not in agreement is simply wrong ( and yeah, if challenged, I can find a link to that also ).
Many months ago, it was that attitude that brought attention to his illogical rants.
And here we are
What I find curious is that he relates to atheism while claiming god-like status and gets very few negative comments from atheists......but then..... not many members seem to be responding to these rant threads, anyway.

...... it seems like that is neither required nor desired to the creator of this thread

Well......imo......since he posts the same threads at many other web sites, I doubt he has allotted much time for debate or rebuttal.
If you google the thread title along with elements of the opening posts, you'll find he's quite prolific at numerous forums.
Just use the title of this thread to see what I mean:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Is+...&channel=rcs&gbv=1&sei=GjwwUMu2OceX6wHLq4HgDg

 

[Minor Axis]

I was trying so hard to be logical and intellectual in this conversation, but it seems like that is neither required nor desired to the creator of this thread.

It's nice having a relative new participant in these types of threads, stay! There is not much room for logic in a discussion like this unless you are using it discount scripture. Something like claiming the Earth is 6000 years old. However, I'm not implying you think the Earth is just 6k old. Or do you?

GIA is opinionated and desires to pick apart any view based on traditional theist beliefs, but I feel confidant he likes intellect. In response #45, you basically just quoted what the scriptures tell you. I realize it's just a story and just quoting/paraphrasing scripture is not effective when arguing with doubters. At least that is my experience as a doubter. IMO, since there is no way to prove it, an intellectual response would have to include why you feel there is truth in such a story.

Think about this. The Bible tells the story of Adam and Eve. Upon what basis do people choose to believe or disbelieve the truth or a lesser standard- the value of this story?

 

[Greatest I am]

I was trying so hard to be logical and intellectual in this conversation, but it seems like that is neither required nor desired to the creator of this thread.

Your first said we should strive to be Godlike.
Then you said that A & E should not have gained a moral sense or the knowledge of good and evil.
Man cannot become like God without a moral sense.

You created a catch 22 and call it your attempt at being logical and intellectual.


Can you be like God, your stated goal, without knowing good and evil?
Could A & E?


Regards
DL

 

[Stone]

Your first said we should strive to be Godlike.
Then you said that A & E should not have gained a moral sense or the knowledge of good and evil.
Man cannot become like God without a moral sense.

You created a catch 22 and call it your attempt at being logical and intellectual.


Can you be like God, your stated goal, without knowing good and evil?
Could A & E?


Regards
DL

rob is just getting up to speed with your sophistry and contextual abuse.....cut him some slack ....

 

[Stone]

It's nice having a relative new participant in these types of threads, stay! There is not much room for logic in a discussion like this unless you are using it discount scripture. Something like claiming the Earth is 6000 years old. However, I'm not implying you think the Earth is just 6k old. Or do you?

GIA is opinionated and desires to pick apart any view based on traditional theist beliefs, but I feel confidant he likes intellect. In response #45, you basically just quoted what the scriptures tell you. I realize it's just a story and just quoting/paraphrasing scripture is not effective when arguing with doubters. At least that is my experience as a doubter. IMO, since there is no way to prove it, an intellectual response would have to include why you feel there is truth in such a story.

Think about this. The Bible tells the story of Adam and Eve. Upon what basis do people choose to believe or disbelieve the truth or a lesser standard- the value of this story?

There is not much room for logic in a discussion like this unless you are using it discount scripture. Something like claiming the Earth is 6000 years old.

Your bias is showing again, MA.
There can be a logical discussion about theology so long as context is observed and fallacious comparisons, such as your suggestion of introducing science, are not used.
This applies to the logic of science as well.....meaning the introduction of theology would be a fallacy.

Think about this. The Bible tells the story of Adam and Eve. Upon what basis do people choose to believe or disbelieve the truth or a lesser standard- the value of this story?

Rather obvious, MA, and you and I discussed it many months ago when you first started attacking me for my religious beliefs.
For those that give consideration to the A&E story, there are two basic pov's.......the literal and the allegorical ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegorical_interpretations_of_Genesis ) .....for those that give no or a negative consideration, they are likely followers of a non Christian religion or simply non believers of any faith system.
You being non Christian wouldn't likely put any value to the story.
GIA being non Christian has his own version whose source hasn't been divulged.

I'm not a fundamentalist and it seems to bother you greatly when your attacks on me fail....

 

[robdawg1]

Your first said we should strive to be Godlike.
Then you said that A & E should not have gained a moral sense or the knowledge of good and evil.
Man cannot become like God without a moral sense.

You created a catch 22 and call it your attempt at being logical and intellectual.


Can you be like God, your stated goal, without knowing good and evil?
Could A & E?


Regards
DL

Referring to one of my previous posts, We dont have the option to be without the knowledge of good and evil as A&E had, so in that light we strive to be like God without trying to become God...again. I also feel that God created man to be adapatable, and so sets different rules for us as a people that are different now as opposed to say when A&E were in the Garden. You can see, via the evolution of rules in the Bible as we move from the Old to the New Testaments, so does the evolution of Man and his spirituality continue through to now.

It's nice having a relative new participant in these types of threads, stay! There is not much room for logic in a discussion like this unless you are using it discount scripture. Something like claiming the Earth is 6000 years old. However, I'm not implying you think the Earth is just 6k old. Or do you?

GIA is opinionated and desires to pick apart any view based on traditional theist beliefs, but I feel confidant he likes intellect. In response #45, you basically just quoted what the scriptures tell you. I realize it's just a story and just quoting/paraphrasing scripture is not effective when arguing with doubters. At least that is my experience as a doubter. IMO, since there is no way to prove it, an intellectual response would have to include why you feel there is truth in such a story.

Think about this. The Bible tells the story of Adam and Eve. Upon what basis do people choose to believe or disbelieve the truth or a lesser standard- the value of this story?

I don't believe the earth is only 6000 years old, I do hold Science in a high standard as I am intellectually capable of combining my religious beliefs with common sense and scientific discovery.
In respect to you Adam and Eve question; as with any story in the Bible, I choose to take the message from the story. I am not, per se, an absolutest as I don't feel that the Bible is meant to be followed to the letter. There is too much room for translation for it to be literal, but there are scriptures that give us very set examples and guidelines we are to live by. As far as I can tell through my own study, nothing in the Bible has told me to cause harm to anyone else or myself.(begin quoting old testament Leviticus here, I know I know...but I have to follow the guideline that when the Messiah came, much of the old testament rules and regs were rewritten.)

 

[Greatest I am]

Referring to one of my previous posts, We dont have the option to be without the knowledge of good and evil as A&E had, so in that light we strive to be like God without trying to become God...again. I also feel that God created man to be adapatable, and so sets different rules for us as a people that are different now as opposed to say when A&E were in the Garden. You can see, via the evolution of rules in the Bible as we move from the Old to the New Testaments, so does the evolution of Man and his spirituality continue through to now.

Nowhere in scriptures is it indicated that A & E were trying to become God. God himself says they became like hin. Not him.

As to the original covenant.
Hebrews 8; 7

7 For if that first covenanthad been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.

Psalm 89 ;34 My covenant I will not break,
Nor alter the word that hasgone out of My lips.

You have God altering the words of his covenant.

Regards
DL

 

[robdawg1]

Nowhere in scriptures is it indicated that A & E were trying to become God. God himself says they became like hin. Not him.

As to the original covenant.
Hebrews 8; 7

7 For if that first covenanthad been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.

Psalm 89 ;34 My covenant I will not break,
Nor alter the word that hasgone out of My lips.

You have God altering the words of his covenant.

Regards
DL

I never said that A&E were trying to be like him, I said only that WE should strive for the spiritual perfection that is God, but not to try in our attempts to become God, or godlike.

in reference to your quote about God and his covenant, I pulled a definition from Dictionary.com for you
5. Bible . a. the conditional promises made to humanity by God, as revealed in Scripture.

b. the agreement between God and the ancient Israelites, in which God promised to protect them if they kept His law and were faithful to Him.




God Changing his rules as Humans grow is not breaking a covenant. Any promises God made in the Bible he kept.

 

[Stone]

Well said, rob.

 

[The Man]

Good posts guy I suspect gia will have to respond with a riddle rather than rebuttal

 

[Greatest I am]

I never said that A&E were trying to be like him, I said only that WE should strive for the spiritual perfection that is God, but not to try in our attempts to become God, or godlike.

in reference to your quote about God and his covenant, I pulled a definition from Dictionary.com for you
5. Bible . a. the conditional promises made to humanity by God, as revealed in Scripture.

b. the agreement between God and the ancient Israelites, in which God promised to protect them if they kept His law and were faithful to Him.




God Changing his rules as Humans grow is not breaking a covenant. Any promises God made in the Bible he kept.

On God's covenant and morality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx7irFN2gdI

As above, so below.

We are to emulate God as you say.
Do you want your child to aspire to be as you are and even better?
I do with mine.
Or do you want him to never reach your level or surpass it?

What makes you think that God would want less for his children?

Paul speaks of us being either slaves to sin or slaves to God.
Do you see God as a slave owner?

Regards
DL

 

[Stone]

On God's covenant and morality.
......................

As above, so below.

We are to emulate God as you say.
Do you want your child to aspire to be as you are and even better?
I do with mine.
Or do you want him to never reach your level or surpass it?

What makes you think that God would want less for his children?

Paul speaks of us being either slaves to sin or slaves to God.
Do you see God as a slave owner?

Regards
DL

Cut the crap with improving the lives of children.
Anyone that's read your pot thread understands you would willingly subject children to a life of living in a culture of legalized drug abuse and addiction with all the hazards that go along with it.
I was also under the impression from that pot thread that you didn't have any children.

Paul speaks of us being either slaves to sin or slaves to God.
Do you see God as a slave owner?

See what I mean, Rob......sophistry and contextual abuse is rampant in these threads

 

[Minor Axis]

I don't believe the earth is only 6000 years old, I do hold Science in a high standard as I am intellectually capable of combining my religious beliefs with common sense and scientific discovery.
In respect to you Adam and Eve question; as with any story in the Bible, I choose to take the message from the story. I am not, per se, an absolutest as I don't feel that the Bible is meant to be followed to the letter. There is too much room for translation for it to be literal, but there are scriptures that give us very set examples and guidelines we are to live by. As far as I can tell through my own study, nothing in the Bible has told me to cause harm to anyone else or myself.(begin quoting old testament Leviticus here, I know I know...but I have to follow the guideline that when the Messiah came, much of the old testament rules and regs were rewritten.)

Good to hear! Everyone is entitled to their beliefs as long as they don't trample on others. (I'm not implying anything about you.)

As an Agnostic, I can live with most of the Ten Commandants regardless of where they originated from. There is no certainty that these rules are the creation of God or men.

But I'm sorry to say I view A&E as one of the terrible stories in the Bible with terrible messages and premises. There is nothing to be learned from this story, but if taken as gospel we learn that God is 1)unreasonable in that he expected perfection from the imperfect beings he created, 2)that he requires unquestioning devotion, but he supposedly loves and respects us, a dichotomy, 3)does not give second chances, does not believe in council and forgiveness, 4) that God's judgement is terrible in scope, condemning all humans and their descendants to a mortal life, and primarily, 4) that WOMAN is to blame for the manner of our existence, for our suffering, and woman's suffering during childbirth. If there is a perfect God, I would expect a much higher standard than this.

 

[Stone]

Good to hear! Everyone is entitled to their beliefs as long as they don't trample on others. ..........................

Strange you would post that, considering how you initiated an attack on my beliefs many months ago.
Have you had a change in heart?

 

[Stone]

Hypocrite!