Iraq, What's The Answer?

[GraceAbounds]

Excellent post there Badboy.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

Why thank you, I, now looking back wish I had left out the expletives, for reasons of respect of course. Beyond that it is very heartfelt and I appreciate your feedback.

 

[All Else Failed]

I want to agree with you, and it all sounds very good. However, you see what is happening in Pakistan right now, basically the Middle East is coming undone again. I won't argue the point that it would not be done by an established government, what you have to face is that there are groups over there, that simply do not have what we have to lose. We basically as a nation worship things more than most, we want to stay quiet and not cause a stir.

Those bastards know practically nothing but hatred and ethnocentrism, what they care about is not the nine to five job, the Expedition in the driveway, the dog the cat soccer practice. What they care about is getting to heaven and spanking some virgin ass, and finding favor in the eyes of who they believe to be God, you cannot well negotiate with someone who has delusions of grendeur on that level.

That is my concern, you put everything on the level of commerce and universal goodwill and developing a progressive middle east, then yes, but what they essentially want is us and everyone that supports us the fuck out of there.

Can you blame them, really? (meaning, they want us to mind our own business, not violence) I don't think established governmental leaders of the various middle eastern countries want to wipe us off the planet so much as they just want us to keep out of their lives, which we have a hard time doing. I also think the fanaticism in the middle east is a bit over hyped. I know people from the middle east, they say its not as crazy as the media portrays it to be. OF COURSE there are fanatics, noooo one is denying that. But, its not like every man, woman and child in EVERY middle eastern country wants to kill us. They're not all brainwashed.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

Can you blame them, really? I don't think established governmental leaders of the various middle eastern countries want to wipe us off the planet so much as they just want us to keep out of their lives, which we have a hard time doing. I also think the fanaticism in the middle east is a bit over hyped. I know people from the middle east, they say its not as crazy as the media portrays it to be. OF COURSE there are fanatics, noooo one is denying that. But, its not like every man, woman and child in EVERY middle eastern country wants to kill us. They're not all brainwashed.

No, I really do not blame them, they know that the U.S. government is fundementally greedy, and self interested. They want the freedom to run their respective governments the way they see fit, that I truly think they are entitled to, hwta we should be is a role model for other nations who want to follow us, rather than an enforcer to those who do not see the benefit in democracy.

And no, I do not think that they are all brainwashed, I did however have a pref. in college, who grew up in Beirut, came to the states as a college student and ironically could only find a job as.....ready for this? A bible salesman, the only people willing to give him a chance at that time was a publishing rep for Bibles....lol anyways that was sidebar, but he basically told me that although essentially what most of them want is peace and have no real need for hating the U.S., however they are surrounded by groups that are far more fearsome, becaus ethey walk talk and eat with these fundementalist everyday.

I have three young engineers under me now, all fro the middle east, who by choice converted to Christianity because by their own words "Those bastards over there are nuts". I do not paint the entire Middle East with the same broad strokes as some, but the more you talk with converted Muslims, the more of an idea you get that there is a lot more behind the smiling eyes over there than what the cover of Time portrays. Bottom line is we need to get out and stay out, or be prepared for convoys of aircraft carrying the remains of our youthful millitary.

The shame in this is that in order to take some dependence off the middle east, we need to radically change our approach to domestic oil finding and exploitation, or finally get on the road to greener means of energy.

I'm saying the future looks bleak

 

[dt3]

NO ONE is stupid enough to launch a nuke or something to that effect at a western country. Mutual destruction.

You're missing one of the biggest points here, though. Iran probably wouldn't launch nukes at us. Saddam probably wouldn't have.

But what they're very likely to do, and have a history of doing, is give those nukes to terrorist organizations.

 

[Tim]

You're missing one of the biggest points here, though. Iran probably wouldn't launch nukes at us. Saddam probably wouldn't have.

But what they're very likely to do, and have a history of doing, is give those nukes to terrorist organizations.

Besides the fact that Iraq wasn't even in the race to get a nuke...

It's not likely that either country would allow a nuke to fall into the hands of terrorists either.
1. How would they be sure that it wasn't going to be used in their own back yard.
2. EVERY nuke can be traced back to where it came from. If one went off in the US, we would know where it came from and take appropriate action. It wouldn't matter if it was first handed off to terrorists or not, we would see it as coming from Iran, etc. So why would they allow that to happen? They're crazy, not stupid.
3. Why would they give up an Ace if they had it? Owning a viable nuke gives certain powers to a nation.

 

[Peter Parka]

Besides the fact that Iraq wasn't even in the race to get a nuke...

It's not likely that either country would allow a nuke to fall into the hands of terrorists either.
1. How would they be sure that it wasn't going to be used in their own back yard.
2. EVERY nuke can be traced back to where it came from. If one went off in the US, we would know where it came from and take appropriate action. It wouldn't matter if it was first handed off to terrorists or not, we would see it as coming from Iran, etc. So why would they allow that to happen? They're crazy, not stupid.
3. Why would they give up an Ace if they had it? Owning a viable nuke gives certain powers to a nation.

Not forgetting
4. Bin Laden didn't like Saddam and his regime which who be publicly called infidels.

 

[dt3]

Not forgetting
4. Bin Laden didn't like Saddam and his regime which who be publicly called infidels.

I'll have to go find it, but in Osama's declaration of Jihad on the US back in 98, the first reason he cited was our policy in Iraq. Even though he didn't get along with Saddam.

 

[Tim]

I'll have to go find it, but in Osama's declaration of Jihad on the US back in 98, the first reason he cited was our policy in Iraq. Even though he didn't get along with Saddam.

Bin Laden issued two fatwas—in 1996 and then again in 1998—that Muslims should kill civilians and military personnel from the United States and allied countries until they withdraw support for Israel and withdraw military forces from Islamic countries.[3][4]

 

[dt3]

Besides the fact that Iraq wasn't even in the race to get a nuke...

It's not likely that either country would allow a nuke to fall into the hands of terrorists either.
1. How would they be sure that it wasn't going to be used in their own back yard.
2. EVERY nuke can be traced back to where it came from. If one went off in the US, we would know where it came from and take appropriate action. It wouldn't matter if it was first handed off to terrorists or not, we would see it as coming from Iran, etc. So why would they allow that to happen? They're crazy, not stupid.
3. Why would they give up an Ace if they had it? Owning a viable nuke gives certain powers to a nation.

Iraq trying to obtain uranium in Africa is one of the only claims that hasn't been disproven about Saddam's WMD program.

New Fight Over Iraq Nuke Claim, Bush's 16-Word Charge Was 'Well-Founded,' Say Reports - CBS News

I'm not trying to say they'd give terrorists every nuke they had, I'm saying if they had several, they COULD give one to terrorists. Not guaranteeing it would happen, but it's a possibility that has to be taken into account.

 

[dt3]

Bin Laden issued two fatwas—in 1996 and then again in 1998—that Muslims should kill civilians and military personnel from the United States and allied countries until they withdraw support for Israel and withdraw military forces from Islamic countries.[3][4]

Here's the actual fatwa:

World Islamic Front Statement Urging Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders

If some people have in the past argued about the fact of the occupation, all the people of the Peninsula have now acknowledged it. The best proof of this is the Americans' continuing aggression against the Iraqi people using the Peninsula as a staging post, even though all its rulers are against their territories being used to that end, but they are helpless.

Second, despite the great devastation inflicted on the Iraqi people by the crusader-Zionist alliance, and despite the huge number of those killed, which has exceeded 1 million... despite all this, the Americans are once against trying to repeat the horrific massacres, as though they are not content with the protracted blockade imposed after the ferocious war or the fragmentation and devastation.

 

[dt3]

Thanks Tim, the FBI's gonna come looking for me for looking that up

 

[Tim]

Thanks Tim, the FBI's gonna come looking for me for looking that up

Yup, I just forwarded that post along with your IP to Homeland security....


Then on second thought... is homeland security even open anymore?

 

[dt3]

Yup, I just forwarded that post along with your IP to Homeland security....


Then on second thought... is homeland security even open anymore?

I think that's a violation of my civil rights and liberties :ninja

 

[Tim]

I think that's a violation of my civil rights and liberties :ninja

Lets get one thing straight here... you only have the freedoms and liberties that I give you here... You don't even have protected freedom of speech. Say something I don't like, and you're outta here! :willy_nilly:


:24:

How's that for freedom and liberties?













:jk



:smiley31:

 

[IntruderLS1]

Damn, you really just sounded like Bush.

@ Grace.

That's because it was true then, and it's true now. Things are getting better in Iraq every day.

Hence the lack of media coverage as of late.

 

[All Else Failed]

That's because it was true then, and it's true now. Things are getting better in Iraq every day.

Hence the lack of media coverage as of late.

so its a media conspiracy?

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

so its a media conspiracy?

Do I need to go on my conspiracy eggroll thingy again?

 

[All Else Failed]

No, I don't want to change my pants.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

No, I don't want to change my pants.

:24::24:

I can see i'll be repping your ass a lot