If Obama is re-elected, you'll be fired, CEO tells workers

[Stone]

OK So the company is private and all the BoD is stacked with family and friends.. He has had the capacity to close down that company for years. No one can stop him except for his hunger for more money..

He has been sued by your government successfully and had to pay out lots of money for illegal stuff his company was doing ( do not call list ). I'm sure you read through all the Wiki crap.. He had a Mansion that went belly up and now there is talk he is trying to bring it back up..

One thing I did not see in the Wiki but found online was the fact his company is on the brink of bankruptcy ( Westgate Resorts Bankruptcy ). But hell which company in that type of industry is not on the edge of it at some point or another..

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OK Back to my original OP question, should anyone have the right to influence voting by using threats ?

I followed that up by saying either it be big business or unions if you want it to be right and left spectrum of the agenda ?

Now the Koch brother are doing a similar thing.. Is it OK to influence votes by using threats of any kind ?

OK Back to my original OP question, should anyone have the right to influence voting by using threats ?

Your post actually answered your question.

One thing I did not see in the Wiki but found online was the fact his company is on the brink of bankruptcy ( Westgate Resorts Bankruptcy ).

I'd read that before and it should have been obvious to you that Siegel was presenting his situation.
There is no way Siegel can verify secretly cast ballots, so any perceived threat has no impact in an election.
And if you bothered to read the scope of employment, it's rather insignificant even if he could influence his employees.

But hell which company in that type of industry is not on the edge of it at some point or another..

It happens.....those companies undoubtedly reorganize to become profitable or face court ordered reorganization.... or at worst assets auctioned off in favor of the investors.

I followed that up by saying either it be big business or unions if you want it to be right and left spectrum of the agenda ?

Now the Koch brother are doing a similar thing.. Is it OK to influence votes by using threats of any kind ?

I take it you haven't been listening to the dreadful claims and predictions Obama and Romney have been making against each other?

.

OK Back to my original OP question, should anyone have the right to influence voting by using threats ?

By your apparent standards, correcting that involves shutting down the internet and all forms of mass media.
How about political bloggers?.....lots of 'threats' there.
How about this debate forum?.....you ever bother to read the dire results if a political argument is rejected?

It's a relative matter of direct influence.
Siegel just doesn't have it in the voting booth, so, imo.....it's mostly a lot of grumbling about his own status and a reality check for his employees.


I haven't followed the news on the Koch brothers for a while, what are they up to threat wise?

 

[The Man]

He's essentially saying, that if so and so doesn't get elected that you'll be out of a job.

Sure, he's not coming right out and saying "If you don't vote for Romney, I'm going to fire you"....but he's vaguely influencing the way that his employers will vote, or at least maybe they'll think about voting a way they normally wouldn't have, or begin to influence other people in their lives to vote a different way, simply to keep a job.

I get that EVERYONE would be fired if Obama were to get re-elected, not just the people who voted for him (how would he find out anyways? If it were my I would just lie and say I voted Romney, even if I didn't if my job were at stake). But the veiled threat is still there. It's him trying to influence his employees by using their job as leverage.

So the thread title is a lie ...do you agree?

 

[Francis]

One thing I did not see in the Wiki but found online was the fact his company is on the brink of bankruptcy ( Westgate Resorts Bankruptcy ). But hell which company in that type of industry is not on the edge of it at some point or another..

By your apparent standards, correcting that involves shutting down the internet and all forms of mass media.
How about political bloggers?.....lots of 'threats' there.
How about this debate forum?.....you ever bother to read the dire results if a political argument is rejected?

It's a relative matter of direct influence.
Siegel just doesn't have it in the voting booth, so, imo.....it's mostly a lot of grumbling about his own status and a reality check for his employees.

I haven't followed the news on the Koch brothers for a while, what are they up to threat wise?

Stone, be serious.. Don't play these games.. By trying to separate my quote above you change the meaning of it completely..

By trying to compare losing a job to information on the internet, bloggers and forums can't compare.

 

[Stone]

Stone, be serious.. Don't play these games.. By trying to separate my quote above you change the meaning of it completely..

By trying to compare losing a job to information on the internet, bloggers and forums can't compare.

Quite being disingenuous.....I didn't change the context of anything you posted.
You posted comments and points you wanted addressed and you got my response.
Obviously it wasn't what you wanted to read......but that's on you, not me.

By trying to compare losing a job to information on the internet, bloggers and forums can't compare.

Perhaps you aren't aware that much of the confrontation between the candidates is about jobs in the US and the same vein, 'threats' are made by opposing campaign committees and candidates......elect the other candidate and you'll be sorry. That's the same concept you are playing in this thread.
And bloggers and the media reflect it. Hell....Fox News is famous for presenting that type of influence.
Your argument could be carried to gagging anything perceived as negative and propagandistic rhetoric in a nation that prides itself on free speech.


Are Siegel's comments actual threats to his employees?
Like I posted, I don't know........but he's obviously venting about his personal situation.


But let me ask you the reverse......would his workforce be better off and better prepared to meet their own obligations and needs in life by knowing that their employer is in financial trouble and that an event in the future is likely to impact their own financial security?
Would it be moral to let the employee flounder in ignorance? ( that's a 2 part question, btw)

 

[The Man]

Stone, be serious.. Don't play these games.. By trying to separate my quote above you change the meaning of it completely..

By trying to compare losing a job to information on the internet, bloggers and forums can't compare.

How did he change the meaning of what you posted?

You took the effort to wrap the quote tag around the following below

One thing I did not see in the Wiki but found online was the fact his company is on the brink of bankruptcy ( Westgate Resorts Bankruptcy ). But hell which company in that type of industry is not on the edge of it at some point or another..

Which you had within his quote..changing the entire meaning of his post.

But to address you directly

By trying to compare losing a job to information on the internet, bloggers and forums can't compare.

How doesn't it compare? ...In this case here the author just happened to be the boss.
Whats any different than them reading say the email...or the email on the internet such as in this thread?:tooth
Would it not have the same impact?
How would one be twisting the arm and not the other?

Am still waiting for you to show that threat by the way

I would be willing to agree that he may be trying to influence their decision on whom to vote for president....but I dont see a threat involved.

Has he had any criminal charges placed against him for the emails?....No because he has not made any threats :surrender

 

[The Man]

Lets try this Francis.
Lets say president joe smith is running for office
He proposes to ban all firearms.
Ceo for Guns r Us tell his employees that if Joe smith gets elected he will retire and have no longer have employees to worry about. Is that a threat as it is the same thing this guy is saying.

 

[robdawg1]

if president joe smith made that statement then the employees of guns r us would know that they woudl vote against him or lose their jobs...they would need no scare tactics by their ceo to "persuade" them...

 

[The Man]

if president joe smith made that statement then the employees of guns r us would know that they woudl vote against him or lose their jobs...they would need no scare tactics by their ceo to "persuade" them...

Thats assuming...many actually dont follow politics.
The question is would the ceo of guns r us be making a threat.
Yes
No

 

[robdawg1]

it would depend on how the message was worded...and what the intent was behind it. why send the document out in the first polace, unless you are attempting to add political pressure?

 

[The Man]

it would depend on how the message was worded...and what the intent was behind it. why send the document out in the first polace, unless you are attempting to add political pressure?

It goes as such

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If any new taxes are levied on me, or my company, as our current President plans, I will have no choice but to reduce the size of this company. Rather than grow this company I will be forced to cut back. This means fewer jobs, less benefits and certainly less opportunity for everyone.

So, when you make your decision to vote, ask yourself, which candidate understands the economics of business ownership and who doesn't? Whose policies will endanger your job? Answer those questions and you should know who might be the one capable of protecting and saving your job. While the media wants to tell you to believe the "1 percenters" are bad, I'm telling you they are not. They create most of the jobs. If you lose your job, it won't be at the hands of the "1%"; it will be at the hands of a political hurricane that swept through this country.

You see, I can no longer support a system that penalizes the productive and gives to the unproductive. My motivation to work and to provide jobs will be destroyed, and with it, so will your opportunities. If that happens, you can find me in the Caribbean sitting on the beach, under a palm tree, retired, and with no employees to worry about.

Signed, your boss,

David Siegel

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[robdawg1]

yeah, to me that sounds like political pressure....

 

[The Man]

yeah, to me that sounds like political pressure....

Is it a threat
Yes
No
Additionally
Would the CEO of guns r us be making a threat.
Yes
No

 

[robdawg1]

the threat is not in whop to vote for, the threat come in that if Such-and-Such candidate wins i will be "sitting under a tree in the carribean" while you are all broke and out of work...yeah thats fairly threatening i would say....

 

[The Man]

the threat is not in whop to vote for, the threat come in that if Such-and-Such candidate wins i will be "sitting under a tree in the carribean" while you are all broke and out of work...yeah thats fairly threatening i would say....

How is that a threat?
Is it going to be difficult to get a proper response from you as well?
No one here as shown the threat....where is the threat.
But with your logic then...............
The CEO of guns R us would also be making a threat then?
Yes
No

Its the same thing

 

[robdawg1]

I think it is a bit different then the westgate situation. In the "guns-r-us" scenario the entire content of the companies merchandise would be made illegal thus the company would be unable to continue it's business and it's people would be out of work.
In the actual sitation, a CEO of a Hotel and Resort is going to throw a tantrum because he has to pay more out of his enormous profit margin (i.e. actually what he should be paying when the loopholes are closed) and in fact instead of taking a cut to his 9 figure salary plus bonus and perks he will put some day wager or hourly wager out of work. hmmmm....1 percenters are great!!

do I think it is a threat yes, if the president is re-elected i will cut your jobs...that has the significant sting of a threat...because why post it if you feel there is nothing your employees can do about it?

 

[robdawg1]

and to add to this Westgate is a significant employer in the Florida area, where once again the election seems to hang in the balance of that state's electorate....

 

[Stone]

How is that a threat?
Is it going to be difficult to get a proper response from you as well?
No one here as shown the threat....where is the threat.
But with your logic then...............
The CEO of guns R us would also be making a threat then?
Yes
No

Its the same thing

A lot of this thread sounds more about semantics and sophistry, TM.......the 'threat of reality'.

 

[The Man]

I think it is a bit different then the westgate situation. In the "guns-r-us" scenario the entire content of the companies merchandise would be made illegal thus the company would be unable to continue it's business and it's people would be out of work.
In the actual sitation, a CEO of a Hotel and Resort is going to throw a tantrum because he has to pay more out of his enormous profit margin (i.e. actually what he should be paying when the loopholes are closed) and in fact instead of taking a cut to his 9 figure salary plus bonus and perks he will put some day wager or hourly wager out of work. hmmmm....1 percenters are great!!

do I think it is a threat yes, if the president is re-elected i will cut your jobs...that has the significant sting of a threat...because why post it if you feel there is nothing your employees can do about it?

How is it any different?
If X president is elected I will retire.

How is the statement of if the president is elected I will have to cut back on employees?...or retire?

So lets use another analogy.
A beer mfg.
The president proposes a 10 dollar tax on a 12 pack of beer.
The ceo makes an announcement if he is elected I will have to downsize or retire....giving them a heads up
If you say yes its a threat.

Then is it a threat if the employee asks the boss about the future of the company and the boss is honest in stating he might retire.

The boss of interest in this thread is over 70 years old
The company is struggling by the way

 

[The Man]

A lot of this thread sounds more about semantics and sophistry, TM.......the 'threat of reality'.

Its like trying to pull teeth out of these guys.

Rather than them show a threat ...they show a rich guy complaining ...which they say is a threat.
I have used several analogies for comparison and cant receive a proper response.

 

[The Man]

and to add to this Westgate is a significant employer in the Florida area, where once again the election seems to hang in the balance of that state's electorate....

How does that determine whether its a threat or not?