If God is the most powerful being...

[Dodge_Sniper]

Does that mean he could create a rock that he himself could never lift?

 

[Reaver]

yes, we all know about the paradox of omnipotence.:welcome:

 

[Reaver]

kinda like...

Can omniscient God, who
Knows the future, find
The omnipotence to
Change his future mind?

 

[alleycat]

he would just put a billion humans on the earth and make them try to move it 24/7. LOL

 

[Reaver]

he would just put a billion humans on the earth and make them try to move it 24/7. LOL

If he did that, he would be creating a solution to a problem he himself would supposedly be unable to solve. therefore the paradox still exists

 

[Dodge_Sniper]

Don't you just love paradoxes? Like...if drinking and driving is illegal, why do you need a driver's license to buy liquor, and why do bars have parking lots?

There are 24 hours in a day, and 24 beers in a case. Coincidence?

 

[Reaver]

Don't you just love paradoxes?

There are 24 hours in a day, and 24 beers in a case. Coincidence?

Not really a paradox, but kick ass none-the-less

 

[Dodge_Sniper]

I know many people here who would subscribe to the "1 beer every hour" theory :tongue:

 

[Reaver]

Here's one that disproves Omniscience/free will:

1. God is omniscient.
2. Humans have free will.
3. If 1 is true God knows what your going to do before you do it.
4. If 1 and 3 are true than 2 is false.
5. If 2 is true than 1 and 3 are false.
If God knows all that has happened all that is happening and all that will happen than that would mean all that we are going to do is predestined. Imagine it this way, a man has two choices, if God knows what choice he is going to make before he dose it,than the choices has already been made other wise he could not have known what choice he was going 10,000 years before the guy was even born. You can not have free will if the the choices you will make have been predicted with a 100% accuracy eons ago.


In other words, you can't have both.

 

[All Else Failed]

Here's one that disproves Omniscience/free will:

1. God is omniscient.
2. Humans have free will.
3. If 1 is true God knows what your going to do before you do it.
4. If 1 and 3 are true than 2 is false.
5. If 2 is true than 1 and 3 are false.
If God knows all that has happened all that is happening and all that will happen than that would mean all that we are going to do is predestined. Imagine it this way, a man has two choices, if God knows what choice he is going to make before he dose it,than the choices has already been made other wise he could not have known what choice he was going 10,000 years before the guy was even born. You can not have free will if the the choices you will make have been predicted with a 100% accuracy eons ago.


In other words, you can't have both.

Good point.

 

[Magic P]

God knows your choices but he doesn't change your decisions nor he prevents you from doing what you wanna do.

 

[All Else Failed]

God knows your choices but he doesn't change your decisions nor he prevents you from doing what you wanna do.

If he knows your decisions he has prior knowledge of what you're going to do, so he has already decided where you're going to go after you die.

 

[TheOriginalJames]

God knows your choices but he doesn't change your decisions nor he prevents you from doing what you wanna do.

Here in lies the problem... he's judging you based on what you are going to do, but haven't yet. Therefore in my eyes this entire life is nothing more than mere punishment from God.

But he's supposed to be a deity of forgiveness and love.

 

[Peter Parka]

It might be old but DS has a good point!

 

[Reaver]

God knows your choices but he doesn't change your decisions nor he prevents you from doing what you wanna do.

Then omniscience can't exist. It's like saying, "I know all the possible outcomes of your actions, therefore whatever you choose, I'm right." Hell, I'm omniscient in that definition. It doesn't mean I new what choice you were gonna make before you made it, I just knew what would come of it. If God knows your choices, then you really don't have an option except for making that choice. Therefore you do not have free will at all, period. And if God said, before you were born, "____ will do ____ on _____" then you never made the choice to do it. If he knew about it, then it was what was going to happen regardless, since God under the rules of omniscience is ALL knowing and infallible.

However, if we do have free will, then God can't know everything we are going to do, thus disproving omniscience (infinite knowledge, past, present and future).

Like I said, believe in one or the other, but you can't have both.

 

[Magic P]

Look, he knows what you are going to do but he doesn't decide anything for you. He knows where you are going so he's trying to give you opportunities by bringing people or events in your life. But if you don't get it or decided to do whatever you want. Then it's ur problem.

 

[Reaver]

Look: by knowing what you will do, your actions are dictated for you. If it is already known to God what you will do, and his logic is infallible, then you cannot do anything but what he has seen you doing. THEREFORE, UNDER THE RULES OF OMNISCIENCE, FREE WILL DOES NOT EXIST, since to make your own decision would contradict omniscience's very basis. It's not that complicated. I'm just giving you an example of the logical fallacies of omniscience/free will. You can say "My definition of omniscience is ____" It doesn't stop my point from being totally valid and correct under the recognized dictionary definition of the concept.

All I'm saying is that the theories of omniscience and free will cannot co-exist without contradictions.

Make personal attacks about how I don't understand because I'm an atheist... whatever, it doesn't matter because I am right. :rant:

 

[All Else Failed]

Look, he knows what you are going to do but he doesn't decide anything for you. He knows where you are going so he's trying to give you opportunities by bringing people or events in your life. But if you don't get it or decided to do whatever you want. Then it's ur problem.

If he knows what you're going to do, he has already in some way made you to carry out these actions from birth, otherwise you WOULDN'T know what you would do.

 

[Magic P]

I wouldn't know what I would do but he does. My point is just cuz he does doesn't mean we don't have a free will. What's so hard to understand? I mean, for instance, I know someone call Magie and I know she's getting married tomorrow. My knowledge of the upcoming event doesn't stop her from getting married regardless of me liking her decision or not.

 

[TheOriginalJames]

I wouldn't know what I would do but he does. My point is just cuz he does doesn't mean we don't have a free will. What's so hard to understand? I mean, for instance, I know someone call Magie and I know she's getting married tomorrow. My knowledge of the upcoming event doesn't stop her from getting married regardless of me liking her decision or not.

That's different. That is a planned event, it's not just a spur of the moment thing.

Let me put it to you like this. God supposedly knew that you were going to be typing this post long long before you were born.

God knew you were going to fight for him on this board long long before you were born.

He already had your life planned out for you - however your free will allows you to change that correct?

Or does it?

How can he know what you're going to do if you have free will?
How can you have free will if he knows what you're going to do?

See the paradox now?