I believe...God is a man

[luc154]

If you are going to quote scripture your first task is to show that the Bible is true and accurate. Can you do that.....other than by 'faith' of course?

....and believing in gods doesn't mean that there are gods.

I have no reason to disbelieve the Bible. But you can give me one.

 

[pladecalvo]

Give me one failed prophecy.

Isaiah 17:1 The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap.
Damascus is still inhabited today with over a million people, and hardly a ruinous heap.

Isaiah 19:4-5 And the Egyptians will I give over into the hand of a cruel lord; and a fierce king shall rule over them, saith the Lord, the LORD of hosts. And the waters shall fail from the sea, and the river shall be wasted and dried up.
The river mentioned here is the Nile. The Nile is still one of Egypt's greatest natural resource.

Isaiah 19:18 In that day shall five cities in the land of Egypt speak the language of Canaan, and swear to the LORD of hosts; one shall be called, The city of destruction.
The Canaanite language has never been spoken in Egypt, and is now an extinct language.


Isaiah 52:1 Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean.
There are uncircumcised people living in Jerusalem even today.


Ezekiel 29:10-11 Behold, therefore I am against thee, and against thy rivers, and I will make the land of Egypt utterly waste and desolate, from the tower of Syene even unto the border of Ethiopia. No foot of man shall pass through it, nor foot of beast shall pass through it, neither shall it be inhabited forty years.
Never in its long history has Egypt ever been uninhabited for forty years.


Matthew 1:22-23 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Jesus is never referred to as Emmanuel



Matthew 2:23 And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene.
Nowhere in the Old Testament is such a prophecy found, so how could such a one be fulfilled?


Will that do for starters or would you like some more?

 

[luc154]

Isaiah 17:1 The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap.
Damascus is still inhabited today with over a million people, and hardly a ruinous heap.





Isaiah 19:4-5 And the Egyptians will I give over into the hand of a cruel lord; and a fierce king shall rule over them, saith the Lord, the LORD of hosts. And the waters shall fail from the sea, and the river shall be wasted and dried up.
The river mentioned here is the Nile. The Nile is still one of Egypt's greatest natural resource.



Isaiah 19:18 In that day shall five cities in the land of Egypt speak the language of Canaan, and swear to the LORD of hosts; one shall be called, The city of destruction.
The Canaanite language has never been spoken in Egypt, and is now an extinct.


Isaiah 52:1 Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean.
There are uncircumcised people living in Jerusalem even today.


Ezekiel 29:10-11 Behold, therefore I am against thee, and against thy rivers, and I will make the land of Egypt utterly waste and desolate, from the tower of Syene even unto the border of Ethiopia. No foot of man shall pass through it, nor foot of beast shall pass through it, neither shall it be inhabited forty years.
Never in its long history has Egypt ever been uninhabited for forty years.


Matthew 1:22-23 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Jesus is never referred to as Emmanuel



Matthew 2:23 And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene.
Nowhere in the Old Testament is such a prophecy found, so how could such a one be fulfilled?


Will that do for starters or would you like some more?

Give me one at a time pls. What is your first try?

 

[pladecalvo]

I have no reason to disbelieve the Bible. But you can give me one.

Of course you don't have any reason to disbelieve but you're rather biased aren't you. I'm not asking you to disbelieve the Bible, I'm asking you to demonstrate to us that the Bible is true and accurate. Can you do it?

 

[pladecalvo]

Give me one at a time pls. What is your first try?

Take your pick my friend...any order you want.

 

[luc154]

Of course you don't have any reason to disbelieve but you're rather biased aren't you. I'm not asking you to disbelieve the Bible, I'm asking you to demonstrate to us that the Bible is true and accurate. Can you do it?

What is it that you distrust about the Bible?

 

[luc154]

Take your pick my friend...any order you want.

Isaiah 52:1 Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean.
There are uncircumcised people living in Jerusalem even today.

This prophecy is referring to the new Jerusalem in the new earth and new heaven. There no believers will come in.

 

[pladecalvo]

Isaiah 52:1 Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean.
There are uncircumcised people living in Jerusalem even today.

This prophecy is referring to the new Jerusalem in the new earth and new heaven. There no believers will come in.

Ah! So it's a 'sometime in the future' prophecy. In that case there is nothing valid about it as a prophecy. Anyone can make 'sometime in the future' prophecies. Here! Let me give you one.

Sometime in the future cats will bark.

You'll never be able to prove me wrong will you because every time you ask me when these cats are going to bark I'll just keep saying 'Well it's not time yet'.

What's your next rebuttal of the failed prophecies? How about Egypt being a wasteland for 40 years?

 

[luc154]

Ah! So it's a 'sometime in the future' prophecy. In that case there is nothing valid about it as a prophecy. Anyone can make 'sometime in the future' prophecies. Here! Let me give you one.

Sometime in the future cats will bark.

You'll never be able to prove me wrong will you because every time you ask me when these cats are going to bark I'll just keep saying 'Well it's not time yet'.

What's your next rebuttal of the failed prophecies? How about Egypt being a wasteland for 40 years?

Why should I give you an answer on this second prophecy if you haven't even made up your mind about the first. Your allegory is inconsistent.

 

[pladecalvo]

Why should I give you an answer on this second prophecy if you haven't even made up your mind about the first. Your allegory is inconsistent.

But I have made up my mind about the first. If you are claiming that it is an 'in the future' prophecy then it's not valid as a prophecy because it can never ever be proved right or wrong ....because you will keep saying 'it's not time yet'.

Now what happened to Egypt's 40 years of desolation?

 

[luc154]

But I have made up my mind about the first. If you are claiming that it is an 'in the future' prophecy then it's not valid as a prophecy because it can never ever be proved right or wrong ....because you will keep saying 'it's not time yet'.

If a book has fulfilled prophecy about the past, then it is likely to be sure that all prophecy is acurate and trustworthy.

 

[pladecalvo]

It doesn't have any fulfilled prophecy.

What happened to Egypt's 40 years of desolation?

 

[luc154]

It doesn't have any fulfilled prophecy.

What happened to Egypt's 40 years of desolation?

You are wrong. The Bible has hundreds of fulfilled prophecy. You just don't want to accept that.

 

[pladecalvo]

You are wrong. The Bible has hundreds of fulfilled prophecy.

....and all of them can be debunked.

You just don't want to accept that.

Just like you don't want to accept that there are failed prophecies.

What happened to Egypt's 40 years of desolation?

 

[pladecalvo]

You are wrong. The Bible has hundreds of fulfilled prophecy. You just don't want to accept that.

Let me ask you something luc. If Christianity's claim that Jesus fulfilled "hundreds" of prophecies is true, why don't the Jews believe he is the Messiah? After all, it was their religion, it was their prophecies, they should be the ones that know whether or not the prophecies have been fulfilled......yet they say that Jesus is not the Messiah because he didn't fulfil the prophecies.

Oh, and I almost forgot.

What happened to Egypt's 40 years of desolation?

 

[luc154]

Let me ask you something luc. If Christianity's claim that Jesus fulfilled "hundreds" of prophecies is true, why don't the Jews believe he is the Messiah? After all, it was their religion, it was their prophecies, they should be the ones that know whether or not the prophecies have been fulfilled......yet they say that Jesus is not the Messiah because he didn't fulfil the prophecies.

Oh, and I almost forgot.

What happened to Egypt's 40 years of desolation?

That the Messiah was going to be rejected was prophecied (Isaiah 53, Psalms 22, Zechariah 12, etc...). The Jews have rejected there own God from the moment they were freed from their slavery out of Egypt, through the wanderings in the desert, on arrival in the promised land, and during their stay in the promised land. When God sent them prophet after prophet, what did they do: they locked them up, killed them and did everything to stop their preaching. That's why God exiled them to Assyria and Babylonia and then brought them back again.

Then finally when God even sends His own Son, they murdered Him on a cross. But God rose Him up so that now there is salvation not only for the Jews but also for non-Jews. And now ofcourse the Jews have to say that Jesus was not the Messias otherwise they would have to accept that God has turned His face from His people. They have no more sacrificial system, no temple, no priests, yet they still continue to deceive themselves in believing that God is still with them.

To answer your question about the desolation of Egypt:
Some date the forty years from Nebuchadnezzar's destroying Egypt, others from the desolation of Egypt some time before; however, they end about the first year of Cyrus, when the seventy years' captivity of Judah ended, or soon after. Then this prediction was accomplished, that God will gather the Egyptians out of all the countries into which they were dispersed, and make them to return to the land of their habitation and give them a settlement there again.

 

[pladecalvo]

To answer your question about the desolation of Egypt:
Some date the forty years from Nebuchadnezzar's destroying Egypt, others from the desolation of Egypt some time before; however, they end about the first year of Cyrus, when the seventy years' captivity of Judah ended, or soon after. Then this prediction was accomplished, that God will gather the Egyptians out of all the countries into which they were dispersed, and make them to return to the land of their habitation and give them a settlement there again.

Luc, there has NEVER been a time in the entire history of Egypt when it was desolate and devoid of man and beast as the prophecy said it would be.

 

[pladecalvo]

What is it that you distrust about the Bible?

Well I'll give you a few examples (by no means complete).

No Genesis creation.
I won't dwell on proofs that the Earth is old. However, humanity is much more than 6000 years old (old cave paintings and suchlike), and we evolved from (other) apes, being closely related to chimpanzees (hominid fossil record, DNA, endogenous retroviruses, pseudogenes etc).

No Noachian Flood.
The survival of Egypt's "Old Kingdom", and the total lack of all the massive geological evidence that a recent worldwide inundation would inevitably leave behind (massive runoff channels, massive water erosion, total disruption of Greenland and Antarctic ice-sheet layers, and so forth).

No Tower of Babel
No sign of any pre-Babel "common language" in written records, no sign of any post-Babel "confusion of languages".

No Exodus.
No trace of the movement of several million people through the Sinai desert, no trace of their supposed encampment at Kadesh Barnea for many years.

No Conquest of Caanan.
The Hebrews are Caananites. Their language evolved from Caananite (after the supposed Exodus), and their religion evolved from Caananite polytheism. We know this from Caananite records (notably the Ugaritic texts).

No "Golden Age" of Solomon.
This "great empire" was never mentioned in the records of other surrounding civilizations, who barely noticed the existence of Israel and Judah.

Failure of Ezekiel's "Tyre Prophecy".
Ezekiel falsely predicted that Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon would take and permanently destroy Tyre. But Tyre survived Nebby's 13-year siege. Apologists have sought to cut this prophecy into 2 parts and have Alexander fulfil the second part centuries later (as he DID take Tyre), but this merely creates two failures where there was previously one: Nebby failed to take Tyre as prophesied, Alex failed to permanently destroy Tyre as prophesied.

Failure of Ezekiel's "Egypt Prophecy".
After the failure of the Tyre prophecy, Ezekiel promised Egypt to Nebby as compensation. Nebby was to ransack Egypt so thoroughly that it would be uninhabited for 40 years. Historical records show that this did not happen.

Failure of the "Babylon Prophecy" (Isaiah and Jeremiah).
Both of these prophesied that the Medes would take and permanently destroy Babylon. But the Medes were conquered by the Persians, who then went on to peacefully take (and not destroy) Babylon.

Numerous historical inaccuracies in Daniel.
While Daniel was supposedly written in the 6th century BC, it was actually written four centuries later and gets many details wrong.

Herod/Quirinius issue.
Matthew's Jesus was born in Herod's time: Luke's Jesus was born at least a decade later, when Quirinius was governor of the region (as confirmed by various historical sources).

No "Massacre of the Innocents".
We have accounts from Herod's enemies, describing his various "crimes". The Massacre is not among them. It was invented by Matthew to draw a parallel between Jesus and Moses (who also supposedly survived an infant massacre, by Pharaoh).

No "zombie invasion of Jerusalem" or "supernatural darkness" (easily-noticed large-scale miracles).
Again, pretty self-explanatory. The dead supposedly rose from their graves and wandered about in Jerusalem, and there was supposedly a supernatural darkness for several hours: numerous historians in the vicinity failed to notice these, as did all the gospel authors except one: obviously invented.

No return of Jesus within "this generation".
There are numerous NT references to the imminent Second Coming: within one generation. Didn't happen, hence the "a day is as a thousand years to God" excuse, and so forth

 

[luc154]

Luc, there has NEVER been a time in the entire history of Egypt when it was desolate and devoid of man and beast as the prophecy said it would be.

Who told you that?

 

[luc154]

Well I'll give you a few examples (by no means complete).

No Genesis creation.
I won't dwell on proofs that the Earth is old. However, humanity is much more than 6000 years old (old cave paintings and suchlike), and we evolved from (other) apes, being closely related to chimpanzees (hominid fossil record, DNA, endogenous retroviruses, pseudogenes etc).

No Noachian Flood.
The survival of Egypt's "Old Kingdom", and the total lack of all the massive geological evidence that a recent worldwide inundation would inevitably leave behind (massive runoff channels, massive water erosion, total disruption of Greenland and Antarctic ice-sheet layers, and so forth).

No Tower of Babel
No sign of any pre-Babel "common language" in written records, no sign of any post-Babel "confusion of languages".

No Exodus.
No trace of the movement of several million people through the Sinai desert, no trace of their supposed encampment at Kadesh Barnea for many years.

No Conquest of Caanan.
The Hebrews are Caananites. Their language evolved from Caananite (after the supposed Exodus), and their religion evolved from Caananite polytheism. We know this from Caananite records (notably the Ugaritic texts).

No "Golden Age" of Solomon.
This "great empire" was never mentioned in the records of other surrounding civilizations, who barely noticed the existence of Israel and Judah.

Failure of Ezekiel's "Tyre Prophecy".
Ezekiel falsely predicted that Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon would take and permanently destroy Tyre. But Tyre survived Nebby's 13-year siege. Apologists have sought to cut this prophecy into 2 parts and have Alexander fulfil the second part centuries later (as he DID take Tyre), but this merely creates two failures where there was previously one: Nebby failed to take Tyre as prophesied, Alex failed to permanently destroy Tyre as prophesied.

Failure of Ezekiel's "Egypt Prophecy".
After the failure of the Tyre prophecy, Ezekiel promised Egypt to Nebby as compensation. Nebby was to ransack Egypt so thoroughly that it would be uninhabited for 40 years. Historical records show that this did not happen.

Failure of the "Babylon Prophecy" (Isaiah and Jeremiah).
Both of these prophesied that the Medes would take and permanently destroy Babylon. But the Medes were conquered by the Persians, who then went on to peacefully take (and not destroy) Babylon.

Numerous historical inaccuracies in Daniel.
While Daniel was supposedly written in the 6th century BC, it was actually written four centuries later and gets many details wrong.

Herod/Quirinius issue.
Matthew's Jesus was born in Herod's time: Luke's Jesus was born at least a decade later, when Quirinius was governor of the region (as confirmed by various historical sources).

No "Massacre of the Innocents".
We have accounts from Herod's enemies, describing his various "crimes". The Massacre is not among them. It was invented by Matthew to draw a parallel between Jesus and Moses (who also supposedly survived an infant massacre, by Pharaoh).

No "zombie invasion of Jerusalem" or "supernatural darkness" (easily-noticed large-scale miracles).
Again, pretty self-explanatory. The dead supposedly rose from their graves and wandered about in Jerusalem, and there was supposedly a supernatural darkness for several hours: numerous historians in the vicinity failed to notice these, as did all the gospel authors except one: obviously invented.

No return of Jesus within "this generation".
There are numerous NT references to the imminent Second Coming: within one generation. Didn't happen, hence the "a day is as a thousand years to God" excuse, and so forth

You believe all these things because you accept them in blind faith.