How do you feel about next November?

[LiberalVichy]

I haven't provided proof in some areas, admittedly, because if you don't know economics you can not possibly contend to have any comprehension of political theory. And that's an inescapable fact. This is why popular political opinions are so radically divergent and self-contradictory, because they're shooting blind.

 

[Peter Parka]

There you go with your snotty nosed assumptions again of two people you have only briefly chatted to on the internet (which is a product of that which you hate so much but for some reason have no problem with using) You know fuck all about anyones knowledge here.

 

[LiberalVichy]

Given that everything you have said indicates a ignorance of even Community College Econ or Political Science, it's a pretty safe assumption. As I've said, even the Statist fucks in political theory have a more coherent grasp of how the economy and civil society functions. Fuck, the Maoists do.

 

[All Else Failed]

Yeah but you're touting a philosophy that will never work all the while funding the thing you hate by voluntarily and knowledgeably living inside of it.

 

[Peter Parka]

So, miss know it all, given human nature, how would you viably create and run working hospitals without organization?

 

[LiberalVichy]

So, miss know it all, given human nature, how would you viably create and run working hospitals without organization?

If your opinion of human nature is so low, how do you think a giant invincible organization with powers of property seizure and unretaliated violence is going to improve things?

Yeah but you're touting a philosophy that will never work all the while funding the thing you hate by voluntarily and knowledgeably living inside of it.

Again, this is saying that because I deliver my wallet rather than be shot or live in the wilderness, that I am supporting robbery. Which is a really retarded statement.

 

[Peter Parka]

If your opinion of human nature is so low, how do you think a giant invincible organization with powers of property seizure and unretaliated violence is going to improve things?

Thats not an answer to my question. Try again.

 

[Obdurate]

"I'd rather dream than not."
"Be realistic - demand the impossible."

Etc.

 

[LiberalVichy]

I have absolutely no idea why you're confounding 'organization' and government. Well, I do, but it's an obviously mistaken opinion. I have no problem with voluntary organization. PepsiCo, as I have pointed out, is highly organized and totally voluntary. It also extends across national authority, even into regions with oppressive and violent governments undoubtedly by your own standards. How do they manage it? Reason and mutual self-interest. The two things responsible for pretty much everything called 'civilization'.

 

[Peter Parka]

Pepsico is an organization which is a form of government, it involves employers ripping off low paid workers and telling them what to do, how does that fit into you theology?

 

[All Else Failed]

I have absolutely no idea why you're confounding 'organization' and government. Well, I do, but it's an obviously mistaken opinion. I have no problem with voluntary organization. PepsiCo, as I have pointed out, is highly organized and totally voluntary. It also extends across national authority, even into regions with oppressive and violent governments undoubtedly by your own standards. How do they manage it? Reason and mutual self-interest. The two things responsible for pretty much everything called 'civilization'.

ok but you need someone at the top who knows what they are doing to tell the others what to do. I'm sure PepsiCO does that as well.

 

[LiberalVichy]

ok but you need someone at the top who knows what they are doing to tell the others what to do. I'm sure PepsiCO does that as well.

No, you don't. If you believed that, you'd be a communist. The price system, only possible in a market and which can only be impeded and disrupted by a government, is the only possible way for a rational allocation of resources to ends most desired by human beings.
Vertical integration on a market will tend toward the degree to which it is most effective at profit-maximization, and since the market is never static total vertical integration is impossible (there must always be at least two property owners or economic calculation becomes impossible).

 

[All Else Failed]

No, you don't. If you believed that, you'd be a communist. The price system, only possible in a market and which can only be impeded and disrupted by a government, is the only possible way for a rational allocation of resources to ends most desired by human beings.
Vertical integration on a market will tend toward the degree to which it is most effective at profit-maximization, and since the market is never static total vertical integration is impossible (there must always be at least two property owners or economic calculation becomes impossible).

....have you ever held a job?

 

[LiberalVichy]

Four, unless I'm forgetting something minor. And, by the way, vertical integration is a structure of command - but only of the property a person controls. Since income is related to production vertically integrated companies can engage in cost-calculation. This, however, is impossible for governments to do. Furthermore, it is obvious that no one needs to 'command' the water company, sugar cane fars and PepsiCo simeaultaneously - the market mechanism of prices 'clears' and directs capital towards productive behaviour, without any conscious coordination whatsoever, simply because prices are bid up and down by supply and demand. In a private-property anarchy situation everything would be produced according to this, which is to say, according to what people want.

 

[Peter Parka]

Four, unless I'm forgetting something minor. And, by the way, vertical integration is a structure of command - but only of the property a person controls. Since income is related to production vertically integrated companies can engage in cost-calculation. This, however, is impossible for governments to do. Furthermore, it is obvious that no one needs to 'command' the water company, sugar cane fars and PepsiCo simeaultaneously - the market mechanism of prices 'clears' and directs capital towards productive behaviour, without any conscious coordination whatsoever, simply because prices are bid up and down by supply and demand. In a private-property anarchy situation everything would be produced according to this, which is to say, according to what people want.

That's still organization which is a form of government, these companies would still have someone at the top telling their employees what to do.

 

[All Else Failed]

Four, unless I'm forgetting something minor. And, by the way, vertical integration is a structure of command - but only of the property a person controls. Since income is related to production vertically integrated companies can engage in cost-calculation. This, however, is impossible for governments to do. Furthermore, it is obvious that no one needs to 'command' the water company, sugar cane fars and PepsiCo simeaultaneously - the market mechanism of prices 'clears' and directs capital towards productive behaviour, without any conscious coordination whatsoever, simply because prices are bid up and down by supply and demand. In a private-property anarchy situation everything would be produced according to this, which is to say, according to what people want.

My hat is off to you for holding 4 jobs.

But you see what I am saying, right? If a person is knowledgeable in something, I think its ok for them to teach others, and establish at least some order and system, so things go smoothly and as fairly as possible. Like if someone has a lot of insight and skill at something, I have no problem with him or her telling me what to do as long as they are fair at doing so.


"In a private-property anarchy situation everything would be produced according to this, which is to say, according to what people want"

My big problem with this statement is that all people want different things. Personal interest will conflict.

 

[LiberalVichy]

And those inflicts will be resolved according to how people value different things and what those people contribute. You give people what they want, you can get what you want. Otherwise, fuck you. What the Hell gives some asshole the 'right' to my money just because some jerkoff thinks he's smart. If it wasn't for people like me actually producing wealth, there'd be nothing to steal to give to these douchebags. Wealth doesn't appear, individual people make it.

If someone knows what he's doing so damn well, he can get a fucking job like a civilized human being.

 

[Peter Parka]

You give people what they want, you can get what you want.

Nice theory but unfortunately the history of mankind proves otherwise, you really have no grasp of human nature.

 

[All Else Failed]

And those inflicts will be resolved according to how people value different things and what those people contribute. You give people what they want, you can get what you want. Otherwise, fuck you. What the Hell gives some asshole the 'right' to my money just because some jerkoff thinks he's smart. If it wasn't for people like me actually producing wealth, there'd be nothing to steal to give to these douchebags. Wealth doesn't appear, individual people make it.

If someone knows what he's doing so damn well, he can get a fucking job like a civilized human being.

Resolved? How? People can only get along so much before it comes down to something life threatening or vitally important. What happens to those who do not share what YOU find to be worth while or important? Do they get left out? Perhaps kicked out? I think the biggest fatal flaw to what you believe is that you think humans will just volunteer and agree on everything in the same way. This is not how people work.

 

[LiberalVichy]

They get exactly what they deserve: Whatever they make. No one has a 'right' to wealth, or anything else. People make these things, and if you can't make it, that's your problem. I do not exist to subsidize the existence of others.