Homophobia

[HK]

Let's call a spade a spade. If you dislike black people purely because they're black, you're a racist. If you dislike women purely because they're female, you're sexist. And if you dislike gay people purely because they're gay, you're homophobic.

I think the word gets bandied about a lot and thrown at people who haven't earnt it sometimes - this is the internet after all - but that doesn't mean there aren't people out there who well and truly own that label.

 

[BadBoy]

Well, someone who hates gay people (irrationally as they have absolutely no effect on their lives) is homophobic. I don't see what the problem is there, I irrationally hate spiders and I have no problem being called arachnophobic

I would agree if they "hate". If they disagree with the orientation this doesn't necessarily mean they "hate".

 

[Niamh]

I would agree if they "hate". If they disagree with the orientation this doesn't necessarily mean they "hate".

Fair enough but I don't understand how you can disagree with another persons orientation. What do you mean by that?

 

[BadBoy]

Fair enough but I don't understand how you can disagree with another persons orientation. What do you mean by that?

Is it fair enough to say some people don't believe people should be with the same sex? This is what I mean.

It doesn't mean they would go out bully or beat them up, they just don't agree with that lifestyle. Some people don't agree with those that choose to be single all their life. Are they singlephobes?

 

[jassilem]

It's not a lifestyle anymore than having brown eyes makes you have a brown eyed lifestyle...

 

[Niamh]

Is it fair enough to say some people don't believe people should be with the same sex? This is what I mean.

It doesn't mean they would go out bully or beat them up, they just don't agree with that lifestyle. Some people don't agree with those that choose to be single all their life. Are they singlephobes?

I wasn't being smart there, I did just want clarification on what you meant

I guess it's different because usually the people who disagree with homosexuality do so because they think it's immoral and even if you're not aggressive with that thinking, saying it's immoral, in itself is a powerful and quite insulting statement to make/way to think.

 

[Panacea]

It's not a lifestyle anymore than having brown eyes makes you have a brown eyed lifestyle...

I agree with you

 

[JosephCross]

I wasn't being smart there, I did just want clarification on what you meant

I guess it's different because usually the people who disagree with homosexuality do so because they think it's immoral and even if you're not aggressive with that thinking, saying it's immoral, in itself is a powerful and quite insulting statement to make/way to think.

That is indeed true. But this got me thinking of a scenario: Let's say there are two people, one who disagrees with homosexual and one who is a homosexual. Neither is aggressive towards the other's opinions. Which should sacrifice their own values (by values I mean the opinion that they are right in the problem at hand) just so as not to insult the other one? Like it was said above, both seem to be wrong. :/

 

[Panacea]

That's kind of the issue, there's no respectful way to say "I disagree with what you are as a human", when you consider the person likely was born with their sexuality.

 

[Niamh]

That's kind of the issue, there's no respectful way to say "I disagree with what you are as a human", when you consider the person likely was born with their sexuality.

Yes, exactly!

 

[BadBoy]

It's not a lifestyle anymore than having brown eyes makes you have a brown eyed lifestyle...

My bad. Those that don't believe in it feel it is a choice.

 

[JosephCross]

That's kind of the issue, there's no respectful way to say "I disagree with what you are as a human", when you consider the person likely was born with their sexuality.

I swallow the bitter taste of defeat with pride: What you said is true, and insulting something someone is born with must hurt more than insulting something you have taken unto yourself (distaste towards homosexuals, in this case). I spoke myself into a corner, but I can proudly say I did not lose this debate to poor debaters.

But still, the pain of being insulted is still a pain, regardless of which aspect of you gets insulted.

 

[HK]

Let's say there are two people, one who disagrees with homosexual and one who is a homosexual. Neither is aggressive towards the other's opinions. Which should sacrifice their own values (by values I mean the opinion that they are right in the problem at hand).

You talk about homosexuality like it's an opinion or lifesyle that people choose after carefully weighing up the options, like it's a problem that can be solved with a little effort.

Disagreeing with someone for being gay is like disagreeing with someone for being born female, blonde or under six foot. You don't get to choose those things and they aren't valid reasons to 'disagree' with someone - did you choose to be born male and straight? No, and gay people aren't born with a little tick box for sexual preference that they can fill in and hand back when they feel like it.

 

[BadBoy]

That's kind of the issue, there's no respectful way to say "I disagree with what you are as a human", when you consider the person likely was born with their sexuality.

Likely? So you are saying that it is possible they just chose it? Fine line here.

 

[JosephCross]

You talk about homosexuality like it's an opinion or lifesyle that people choose after carefully weighing up the options, like it's a problem that can be solved with a little effort.

Disagreeing with someone for being gay is like disagreeing with someone for being born female, blonde or under six foot. You don't get to choose those things and they aren't valid reasons to 'disagree' with someone - did you choose to be born male and straight? No, and gay people aren't born with a little tick box for sexual preference that they can fill in and hand back when they feel like it.

I admit I spoke out of line and with stupidity and apologize. Please, disregard what I said before with my humblest apologies. I'll try to keep what you are saying in mind. Thank you.

 

[hart]

That's the gist of it. The reason we get mad at you. It's not a choice. You are born that way.

But as far as I personally believe and act, as long as you don't go out of your way to make trouble for those you "disagree" with their lifestyle, I can get along with you.

 

[Panacea]

Likely? So you are saying that it is possible they just chose it? Fine line here.

No, I'm not saying that. I'm responsibly saying I'm not sure of the exact, whole scope of human sexuality and its origins/motives.

Basically, everything I've ever seen regarding human sexuality seems to imply it is biological in nature.

Really sit down and think about a straight person being born and then growing up to say "yanno, even though I'm straight, I think it would be cool to pretend I am attracted to people of my own sex, and force myself to sleep with them!"...think about it openly...is it realistic?

 

[JosephCross]

But deep down, hart, you'll still think they're wrong? Is that not a bit... cruel?

 

[JosephCross]

No, I'm not saying that. I'm responsibly saying I'm not sure of the exact, whole scope of human sexuality and its origins/motives.

Basically, everything I've ever seen regarding human sexuality seems to imply it is biological in nature.

Really sit down and think about a straight person being born and then growing up to say "yanno, even though I'm straight, I think it would be cool to pretend I am attracted to people of my own sex, and force myself to sleep with them!"...think about it openly...is it realistic?

Technically, I think that's called "coming out of the closet", when put brutally...:sarcasm So yeah, I agree that sexuality is something you are born with.

 

[HK]

But deep down, hart, you'll still think they're wrong? Is that not a bit... cruel?

I'm a little confused Joseph, didn't you say exactly the same thing earlier in this thread? That you believe homosexuality is wrong?

I understand people can change their views on the world, but to go in the course of one thread from 'I believe it's unnatural' to 'aren't you being a bit cruel?' seems a little fast.

Are you perhaps not as concrete in your views as you first suggested?