High School students sent home

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HottyToddyChick

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Being American born and then being told to "Go back to mexico". Seems kind of ignorant to me


I specified if someone comes over from another country. Not just any one who doesn't look "American". My mom is the first generation to be born in America from her biological family, so I'm not trying to be all uppity or anything.
 
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Tim

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Here's my take on this...

Should the kids be sent home for wearing those shirts? No, absolutely not.

But if they wore them for the sake of starting trouble or if they wore them in "protest" of cinco de mayo, then it's the call of the principal.

The principal has a duty to keep order in the school and if these shirts were worn to invoke a reaction from other students on this particular day, then he needs to keep the peace and if that means sending them home if they refuse to comply, then so be it. I don't care if it's American flag, an original copy of the constitution or his dead fathers purple heart. The decision be based on intent and not the item.
 

Azazel

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dt3

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Glad somebody brought this back, it was driving me nuts knowing Tim had the last word but I didn't want to resurrect the thread. :D

My thoughts:
If their shirts can be viewed as offensive, then the standard needs to be applied across the board. The next time someone wears a Malcolm X shirt, they should be sent home. Same goes for those "hip" Che Guevara shirts.

Amber pointed out there's some areas around where we come from that if you wear an FSU shirt to school you could start a fight. Especially around November. Outlaw that too.

Of course, Obama is a pretty polarizing figure also, send those home too.

Where does it stop? When did we as Americans become so worried about offending someone, that we decided it's ok to offend the MAJORITY who finds it offensive that you can't show pride in our flag? I'm offended they were sent home, why doesn't my opinion matter? Why is it ok to offend the majority to appease the few? The PC crap needs to end.

Hell, if the kids get in a fight, maybe they'll learn that their actions have consequences. Instead, what have they been taught from this? Somebody tell me the lesson that was taught here.

If anything, I find it ridiculous that people assume that the kids of Hispanic descent would be offended. Maybe they should be given a little more credit. Isn't it equally racist to ASSUME, based on their descent, that they must be offended by other heritages?

In electronics, especially computers, things being referred to as Master/Slave is a common term. I was having a conversation with a friend/coworker (who happened to be black) about Master/Slave relationships of AC Drive modules. Our boss (who happened to be white) walked in on the conversation, and immediately called me to his office. He explained to me that the terminology is outdated and inappropriate and could be offensive.

He never once considered that the guy I was talking to had started the conversation, which he had, or that he had used the term first, which he had. In his attempt to be "PC", he had assumed that I had started the conversation and used the term first, because I was white. He also assumed that a black man must be offended by such a topic. Isn't that racism too?

The guy I was talking to is still a really good friend of mine, and we talk at least once a month. Instead of trying to sweep everything under the rug and avoid offending anybody, or at least anybody in the minority since it's obviously ok to offend a majority...wouldn't it be better to actually have a frank and open discussion about all of it? Isn't avoiding the problem counter-productive to finding a solution and co-existing?
 

Accountable

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If anything, I find it ridiculous that people assume that the kids of Hispanic descent would be offended. Maybe they should be given a little more credit. Isn't it equally racist to ASSUME, based on their descent, that they must be offended by other heritages?
Absolutely. :nod:
We adults constantly assume that kids have the same baggage that we have, and we're usually wrong.

dt3 said:
In electronics, especially computers, things being referred to as Master/Slave is a common term. I was having a conversation with a friend/coworker (who happened to be black) about Master/Slave relationships of AC Drive modules. Our boss (who happened to be white) walked in on the conversation, and immediately called me to his office. He explained to me that the terminology is outdated and inappropriate and could be offensive.

He never once considered that the guy I was talking to had started the conversation, which he had, or that he had used the term first, which he had. In his attempt to be "PC", he had assumed that I had started the conversation and used the term first, because I was white. He also assumed that a black man must be offended by such a topic. Isn't that racism too?
It's the true bigot that walks around trying to shut people down rather than trust people to act properly. They may say that they don't want to offend the minority (read, those people), but if you scratch the surface you'll find that they don't want the white people to get in trouble for telling "the truth". Those people disgust me.

When he describes someone as black, does he whisper the word, as if the black person might not know he's black?
 

Tim

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Without all the facts in this story we will never know if the principal was out of line or not. Who's to say that he hasn't sent kids home for wearing other t-shirts? He may be acting in a consistent fashion concerning the school rules, we don't know.

My point is that he is the one in the middle of this controversy and we are the outsiders. If he decides to send some kids home because they didn't listen to him, then so be it. How many threads and discussions have we had about kids and teens and how undisciplined they are today? That they show no respect? Yet because they were wearing American flag t-shirts everyone automatically assume the kids were some innocent victims caught up in a political fight.

I say bullshit, I find it hard to believe that the principal pulled two ace students that have never been in trouble before out of school because he didn't like the American flag. It's more likely that these kids are no strangers to trouble and he was well aware of the intent of the shirts. It's at this point that it becomes an issue of causing the trouble and NOT what is printed on the shirt.
That's why I said before that they shouldn't be sent home for wearing American flag t-shirts... but it doesn't mean that the principal was wrong for sending they home.
And it's total bullshit to say that intent couldn't be taken into account. If I tried to pull this shit in school, my principal would know I was. So we can go around and around all day long talking about intent, rights, or whatever else you want... bottom line is that this principal deals with these kids all day long. He is in a MUCH better position to deal with them then we ever will be since we are only reacting to a few news story sound bites... and we know how often the media gets it right
 

Guyzerr

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Fuck this dude... Half those mexican students' parents are probably illegal anyway. This is America, we're allowed to wear American flags and anything else symbolizing our patriotism. By rights, the next time some kid their is wearing a shirt with Spanish on it, they should send his ass home.
Many people consider the wearing of a flag is disrespecting it. Their stand is to do anything other than fly it is disrespecting. Makes sense to me.

That said... there are laws against it.

http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.html

" Section 8d. reads, "The flag should never be used as wearing apparel."

This is the actual Rules & Regs ....

http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagcode.htm

I say execute the Americans that were wearing the flag.
 
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retro

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Many people consider the wearing of a flag is disrespecting it. Their stand is to do anything other than fly it is disrespecting. Makes sense to me.

That said... there are laws against it.

http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.html

" Section 8d. reads, "The flag should never be used as wearing apparel."

This is the actual Rules & Regs ....

http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagcode.htm

I say execute the Americans that were wearing the flag.

That's referring to the actual flag, not a representation of the flag as is on shirts and other apparel.
 

hart

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Without all the facts in this story we will never know if the principal was out of line or not. Who's to say that he hasn't sent kids home for wearing other t-shirts? He may be acting in a consistent fashion concerning the school rules, we don't know.

My point is that he is the one in the middle of this controversy and we are the outsiders. If he decides to send some kids home because they didn't listen to him, then so be it. How many threads and discussions have we had about kids and teens and how undisciplined they are today? That they show no respect? Yet because they were wearing American flag t-shirts everyone automatically assume the kids were some innocent victims caught up in a political fight.

I say bullshit, I find it hard to believe that the principal pulled two ace students that have never been in trouble before out of school because he didn't like the American flag. It's more likely that these kids are no strangers to trouble and he was well aware of the intent of the shirts. It's at this point that it becomes an issue of causing the trouble and NOT what is printed on the shirt.
That's why I said before that they shouldn't be sent home for wearing American flag t-shirts... but it doesn't mean that the principal was wrong for sending they home.
And it's total bullshit to say that intent couldn't be taken into account. If I tried to pull this shit in school, my principal would know I was. So we can go around and around all day long talking about intent, rights, or whatever else you want... bottom line is that this principal deals with these kids all day long. He is in a MUCH better position to deal with them then we ever will be since we are only reacting to a few news story sound bites... and we know how often the media gets it right
:homo:
 

Guyzerr

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So wearing any symbolic representation of the flag is wrong?

Is this wrong?

0611BackwardsPatch.jpg




What about this?

obama-flag-pin_28043t.jpg

imo those are ok. I personally don't like to see them used as tee shirts, headbands, capes or floor rugs which was something your last ex-pres and his wife did. Did you bother to read the link I supplied? ;)
 

Zorak

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People need to remember teachers are responsible for students wellbeing while they are at school.

If these kids are wearing these shirts and bandana's just to incite trouble, the teachers have to take action.

It's only political correctness in as fair that if a kid gets seriously hurt - people lose their jobs or get sued.
 

hart

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People need to remember teachers are responsible for students wellbeing while they are at school.

If these kids are wearing these shirts and bandana's just to incite trouble, the teachers have to take action.

It's only political correctness in as fair that if a kid gets seriously hurt - people lose their jobs or get sued.


Thank you! I couldn't believe the reaction of some folks to this....u stated this best. Rep coming to you hon.
 

dt3

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Without all the facts in this story we will never know if the principal was out of line or not. Who's to say that he hasn't sent kids home for wearing other t-shirts? He may be acting in a consistent fashion concerning the school rules, we don't know.

My point is that he is the one in the middle of this controversy and we are the outsiders. If he decides to send some kids home because they didn't listen to him, then so be it. How many threads and discussions have we had about kids and teens and how undisciplined they are today? That they show no respect? Yet because they were wearing American flag t-shirts everyone automatically assume the kids were some innocent victims caught up in a political fight.

I say bullshit, I find it hard to believe that the principal pulled two ace students that have never been in trouble before out of school because he didn't like the American flag. It's more likely that these kids are no strangers to trouble and he was well aware of the intent of the shirts. It's at this point that it becomes an issue of causing the trouble and NOT what is printed on the shirt.
That's why I said before that they shouldn't be sent home for wearing American flag t-shirts... but it doesn't mean that the principal was wrong for sending they home.
And it's total bullshit to say that intent couldn't be taken into account. If I tried to pull this shit in school, my principal would know I was. So we can go around and around all day long talking about intent, rights, or whatever else you want... bottom line is that this principal deals with these kids all day long. He is in a MUCH better position to deal with them then we ever will be since we are only reacting to a few news story sound bites... and we know how often the media gets it right
The issue I have is sending them home for what he obviously perceived was their intent. By all accounts, they were called into his office at lunch. Why wait half the day, and then kick them out? If a fight hadn't started by then, then I dare say it wasn't their intent to start a fight. Maybe you're right, there are plenty of facts that could come out that would change my opinion. But unlike you, I'm willing to let them be innocent until proven guilty. Isn't that how it's supposed to work?

When I went to the hockey game a couple weeks ago, I was walking around the arena outside killing time. On one corner, between the Verizon Center and Chinatown, there was a black preacher on a stage with posterboard all around him showing victims of lynchings and slaves. He had about 20 other black people in front of him, and was literally chanting into a megaphone, and these are exact quotes "Death to whitey. They need to pay for what they did to us! Down with the whiteman" followed by a lot of "Amens" from the crowd. I walked right between the stage and the crowd and just ignored it, and nothing happened, but I was damn sure nervous.

How is that kind of incendiary, provocative public speech protected, but these students can't wear an American flag?
 

dt3

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imo those are ok. I personally don't like to see them used as tee shirts, headbands, capes or floor rugs which was something your last ex-pres and his wife did. Did you bother to read the link I supplied? ;)
I'm rather familiar with the Flag Code, so no I didn't bother with the first one. The second one was hardly impressive though. If we allow people to burn the flag in protest, can we really be upset if someone autographs one?
 
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