Healthcare Public Option?

Do you support the Public Option for Health Insurance in the U.S.?

  • I have insurance and support the public option.

    Votes: 8 42.1%
  • I have insurance and don't support the public option.

    Votes: 5 26.3%
  • I don't have insurance and support the public option.

    Votes: 3 15.8%
  • I don't have insurance and don't support the public option.

    Votes: 3 15.8%

  • Total voters
    19

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Meirionnydd

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Man, I'm proud to be a transplanted Texan!

"It really is a state issue, and if there was ever an argument for the 10th Amendment and for letting the states find a solution to their problems, this may be at the top of the class," Perry said. "A government-run healthcare system is financially unstable. It’s not the solution."

Perry raises possibility of states' rights showdown with White House over healthcare | Top Stories | Star-Telegram.com

The current system is also financially unstable. I don't see the Republicans proposing anything substantial in healthcare reform. I'd think Perry might be slightly more open to health-care reform than others, considering 25% of Texans don't have health coverage.

Is it just me, or are most Republican politicians in the United States really, really retarded?
 
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dt3

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The current system is also financially unstable. I don't see the Republicans proposing anything substantial in healthcare reform. I'd think Perry might be slightly more open to health-care reform than others, considering 25% of Texans don't have health coverage.

Is it just me, or are most Republican politicians in the United States really, really retarded?
And how many in that 25% aren't even US citizens?
 

Accountable

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What I find interesting is that everybody ignores the fact that everybody in the USA has health coverage. Some may not have enslaved themselves to an insurance company or a government entity, but all are covered, by law.
 

Accountable

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Yeah, for some reason I don't see that happening.



Yes, it's a fact. Healthcare systems have waiting lists, you simply can't jump the queue. If there is an organ shortage, you can't simply give a liver transplant to someone who isn't likely to survive the operation, as opposed to someone who has been on a waiting list for a longer amount of time, and is likely to survive.

Doctors have to make very hard decisions, just because the US doesn't have a single-payer system doesn't mean it's immune from that fact.
You stated as fact that he couldn't find a liver. That's a lie. The fact is that he was never placed on a waiting list. The fact is that no one bothered to see if he matched anyone. The fact is that his national health service, his government, his nation, let him down. They failed in their promise. He was tried, found guilty of inadequate living standards, and was sentenced to die.

The UK isn't supposed to have a death penalty.
 

Minor Axis

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The current system is also financially unstable. I don't see the Republicans proposing anything substantial in healthcare reform. I'd think Perry might be slightly more open to health-care reform than others, considering 25% of Texans don't have health coverage.

Is it just me, or are most Republican politicians in the United States really, really retarded?

No, the words are hypocritically sinister. There is a problem in this country and the Republican goal is to deny, deceive, and distort, fighting all out to keep the status quo in support of large wealthy corporations at the expense of YOU, regular citizens. What the psychologists need to study is how the group of "regular citizens" who call themselves Republicans actually have deluded themselves into thinking they are part of the club. (They are not.) It's actually one of the interesting aspects of the conservative mind-set and brilliant Republican marketing.
 

Accountable

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No, the words are hypocritically sinister. There is a problem in this country and the Republican goal is to deny, deceive, and distort, fighting all out to keep the status quo in support of large wealthy corporations at the expense of YOU, regular citizens. What the psychologists need to study is how the group of "regular citizens" who call themselves Republicans actually have deluded themselves into thinking they are part of the club. (They are not.) It's actually one of the interesting aspects of the conservative mind-set and brilliant Republican marketing.
:24::24::24:

I know you won't wake up, but I'll post this for someone who might. The republicans are fighting to change, not keep, the status quo in further support of large wealthy corporations, mainly oil and big pharma. The democrats are fighting to change the status quo in further support of large wealthy corporations, mainly insurance, banks, and electricity (GE). BOTH are at the expense of us, regular citizens.

THERE IS NO REAL DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRATIC PARTIES.
 

Tangerine

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:24::24::24:

I know you won't wake up, but I'll post this for someone who might. The republicans are fighting to change, not keep, the status quo in further support of large wealthy corporations, mainly oil and big pharma. The democrats are fighting to change the status quo in further support of large wealthy corporations, mainly insurance, banks, and electricity (GE). BOTH are at the expense of us, regular citizens.

THERE IS NO REAL DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRATIC PARTIES.

Thank you, Jesus. Someone with a brain and a set of balls to call out stupid bullshit.
 

Minor Axis

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THERE IS NO REAL DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRATIC PARTIES.

Who said you weren't a comedian? :D For there being no real difference, why do you spend all of your time arguing one side?

Thank you, Jesus. Someone with a brain and a set of balls to call out stupid bullshit.

Your valuable input is very much appreciated on this forum.
 

Tim

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You stated as fact that he couldn't find a liver. That's a lie. The fact is that he was never placed on a waiting list. The fact is that no one bothered to see if he matched anyone. The fact is that his national health service, his government, his nation, let him down. They failed in their promise. He was tried, found guilty of inadequate living standards, and was sentenced to die.

The UK isn't supposed to have a death penalty.

You really need to know your facts before you make such outlandish statements. If this 22 year old alcoholic was in the US he still would NOT have gotten a liver transplant. In order to get a transplant in the US you MUST be put on the National wait list and as of right now there are 102,795 people waiting. If you are an alcoholic waiting for liver you might as well just give up, because you aren't getting one and if by some miracle they find one for you before you die, your insurance company will not pay for it.
 

Accountable

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You stated as fact that he couldn't find a liver. That's a lie. The fact is that he was never placed on a waiting list. The fact is that no one bothered to see if he matched anyone. The fact is that his national health service, his government, his nation, let him down. They failed in their promise. He was tried, found guilty of inadequate living standards, and was sentenced to die.

The UK isn't supposed to have a death penalty.

You really need to know your facts before you make such outlandish statements.
Outlandish? Point out one inaccuracy in my post you quoted, please.
I'm saying that if a matching liver was found for him that didn't match anyone else, he still wouldn't get the transplant in the UK; he probably would in the US, depending on which hospital he was in.
So you're saying that a doctor would let a person die and let a liver go to waste? I hardly think so.
RecklessTim said:
... and if by some miracle they find one for you before you die, your insurance company will not pay for it.
I'm always surprised at how some people are simply unable to think outside the box of dependence. A 22-yar-old alcoholic is likely to be unemployed, and uninsured. That places him outside those constraints.
 

retro

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The Health Care industry as a whole needs to be reformed, that's a given... I don't think there is anyone who really doubts that or disagrees.

The problems here are

1. No widespread tort reform for healthcare. Doctors are in constant worry about being sued by a disgruntled patient, so they have to raise their cost for care in order to offset the rising malpractice insurance costs

2. Because the doctors raise their costs to meet the rising malpractice insurance, private insurance companies have to be more selective about who they allow coverage. They also attempt to pay doctors less for reimbursement of services than what the doctors are charging. Generally this is done in the form of the insurance company working out a contract with the provider (hospital, medical group, individual doctor) and deciding on a contracted rate for individual services. If an insurance company is unwilling to provide adequate compensation for services rendered, the provider can elect to simply not accept their insurance as a form of payment.

3. Outside of the realm of private insurance, you have MediCare/MediCaid, who have steadily been dropping the amount of money that they'll reimburse for services, leaving doctors either having to bill elderly patients for the remainder, simply dealing with the fact that the government isn't willing to pay much and then writing the rest off, or patients have to get a secondary insurance to cover the rest.

When you put all of these factors into play together, you get the situation that we're in right now. Doctors want to be compensated for their time spent in school, their expertise, and the time taken to render care to a patient. Insurance companies want to make a profit, and that leads to them offering to pay less for services than ever. Then you have the government, who simply can't sustain MediCare/MediCaid, so they pay less and less, and yet doctors are required by law to see patients covered by them.

The current system is thoroughly unsustainable at the rate that we're going. MediCare is going to be bankrupt within this century, especially now that the baby boomers are starting to hit 65+. Malpractice insurance costs are going to continue to rise, wages for ancillary staff (receptionists, nurses, etc.) are going to continue to increase, so the providers are going to have to keep raising their charges to keep up, and then the insurance companies are going to offer to pay less and less so that they keep their profit margins.

What is the solution? I'm by no means an expert... but I'm willing to bet that I have a much better understanding than a lot of people. I believe the solution starts with tort reform... limit malpractice cases substantially, and that will lower premiums on malpractice insurance. The next step is massive insurance reform... require companies to accept more patients, but also raise the amount of money that they pay back to the provider for compensation for services. They'll be paying more to the doctors, so the doctors will be more willing to lower their charges because of lower malpractice insurance premiums, and higher payouts back from the insurance companies. Lastly, because providers are going to be more willing to accept more insurance companies in their practices, the overall health of the insurance industry will go up, because they'll be able to insure more people due to the fact that they have more customers, and doctors have lowered their charges because of the reduced other costs.

If you talk to most physicians, they'll more than likely agree that this plan is wholly more palatable than anything else currently on the table. They all know that the system needs change and reform, and they pretty much all know that ObamaCare isn't the answer either. If the federal government is incapable of running MediCare, why do we think that they'd have any better luck with a national health care?

What ObamaCare really boils down to is that this isn't in the least bit about reforming health care, not even close. This is about control. If they can control your health care, then they can theorhetically tell you that you can't smoke, that you can't drink, that you can't do this that or the other thing because it would affect the ability to medically insure you. Oh, you want to have a cheeseburger? I'm sorry, cholesterol levels are too high, please make another selection. That's the direction that we would be headed with a nationalized health care. They could then technically tell doctors in medical school what specialty they should go into, because specialty X is needed more than specialty Y, so while you'd rather go into Y, you have to go into X instead.

The Democrats are all about control here... they want people to be wholly dependent on the government for their everyday needs. Thus making them more powerful and keeping them in office and in power. Republicans aren't necessarily a whole lot better, they support big businesses over the citizens in a lot of ways, but they (historically anyway, not recently) fiscally conservative, and until the 9/11 attack, the Patriot Act, and all of that bullshit, anti-big government.

That being said, I'm very glad Gov. Perry (while I didn't vote for him while I lived in Texas) has taken the stand that they'll try and thwart ObamaCare under the 10th Amendment... and that other states seem to be following suit. Health Care is not a "right" as prescribed by the constitution; therefore, why is the federal government attempting to provide it and force people to have their coverage?

The system needs change and reform, but it doesn't need government involvement outside of tort and insurance reform. The government doesn't need to become a health care provider... we can't even keep a balanced budget, fund social security or medicare (both programs that aren't part of the power delegated to the federal government by the constitution anyway), so that shouldn't be extended any further. If they can't run an existing health care program correctly, what makes anybody think that they'll be able to run another one, on a far larger scale?
 

retro

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oh, and for reference... the reason I say I probably know a lot more about the subject than others here is this. My dad is a family practice physician, the vice-president of the board of directors of his medical clinic, and the former medical director there. He's also former vice-chair of the hospital board of directors of our local hospital. In addition, I spent 3.5 years working at the medical clinic; first directly with a provider in the physical therapy department, then I moved to IT where I helped develop billing into the practice management system there, and was one of two members of my department required to become an expert in HIPAA when the privacy rules took effect in 2003. My dad and I regularly have discussions on the state of the health care industry, with all of these subjects coming up on a regular basis.
 

Accountable

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I agree with you about tort reform. we also need to have a 'loser pays' system. I'm not sold on your insurance suggestion, but that's mainly because I think insurance is a tool of Satan and should be abolished. :D Plus, having gov't dictate how a business conducts business seldoms works out in the public's favor.

I would add to your list, though, a task for that indoctrination system we call public education. It'll never happen because it flies in the face of everything politicians stand for, but we should have budgeting and living within one's means as part of the curriculum from a very early age. We learn the value of money through trial and error, which has resulted in the average citizen living paycheck to paycheck and depending on insurance to pay for every inconvenience instead of unexpected catastrophe, as it was first intended.
 

Minor Axis

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What is the solution? I'm by no means an expert... but I'm willing to bet that I have a much better understanding than a lot of people. I believe the solution starts with tort reform... limit malpractice cases substantially, and that will lower premiums on malpractice insurance. The next step is massive insurance reform...

I agree that tort reform is needed. I believe Canada limits the amount of money families can be rewarded for malpractice. (But wait, Canada does not have any good ides?? )

If the federal government is incapable of running MediCare, why do we think that they'd have any better luck with a national health care?

What makes you say the government can't run Medicare? It's an efficient, well run program considering all of the external factors. Maybe not you, but there are a group of posters on this forum who have their panties in a knot over the threat of "socialized" medicine, but we all ready have it for one segment of our population- The Veterans Administration. I've not heard anyone nashing their teeth over that. I was in the system for all most 10 years and was happy with the medical care I received in the Military.

What ObamaCare really boils down to is that this isn't in the least bit about reforming health care, not even close. This is about control. If they can control your health care, then they can theorhetically tell you that you can't smoke, that you can't drink, that you can't do this that or the other thing because it would affect the ability to medically insure you. Oh, you want to have a cheeseburger? I'm sorry, cholesterol levels are too high, please make another selection. That's the direction that we would be headed with a nationalized health care. They could then technically tell doctors in medical school what specialty they should go into, because specialty X is needed more than specialty Y, so while you'd rather go into Y, you have to go into X instead.

You just lost all semblance of rational thought discussing the issue. You have a case of conservative phobia.

The Democrats are all about control here... they want people to be wholly dependent on the government for their everyday needs. Thus making them more powerful and keeping them in office and in power.

More BS.

Republicans aren't necessarily a whole lot better, they support big businesses over the citizens in a lot of ways, but they (historically anyway, not recently) fiscally conservative, and until the 9/11 attack, the Patriot Act, and all of that bullshit, anti-big government.

How about they are 100 times worse? You guys seem mostly to be anti-big government, but you support a group of bozos who would sell your liberties in a heart beat to create a fascist state? Spend spend spend, until we loose control of government and then we recover our hypocritical fiscal senses... It boggles the mind. Ok, the entire Republican party is not like that, except they all dropped into lock step when it came all the really shitty decisions of the last Administration that even if you want to blame Clinton for some of todays problems, they (the Republicans) were in office for 8 years and more than enough time to fix the problems, except for one thing. They are too star struck by profits, whether it is large health or war profiteering companies, and they can say it all they want, but the only concern they have for every day people comes after the profits. Because when it comes to people, the Republican/conservative motto is "we can't afford it, sorry".

Health Care is not a "right" as prescribed by the constitution; therefore, why is the federal government attempting to provide it and force people to have their coverage?

Every conservative in this forum is all concerned about is health care a right and you all want the Constitution amended to spell out health care? Where does the Constitution lay out Medicare and the Veterans Administration health coverage? It's just another conservative road block to stop it.

The system needs change and reform, but it doesn't need government involvement outside of tort and insurance reform. The government doesn't need to become a health care provider... we can't even keep a balanced budget, fund social security or medicare (both programs that aren't part of the power delegated to the federal government by the constitution anyway), so that shouldn't be extended any further. If they can't run an existing health care program correctly, what makes anybody think that they'll be able to run another one, on a far larger scale?

Any governmental program that benefits people is a terrible idea as far as conservatives are concerned. But the government fills many important roles that private industry doesn't want any part of (unless substantial profits are involved). Even though we are not going for a Canadian style system, the Canadian system is very popular, as in 85%. The number one priority of health care must be people and not profits. Conservatives did not want Medicare when it was enacted (1965) to cover those over 65. And it works well. No one is screaming about the V.A. Universal health care is an extension of that philosophy which will cover more, hopefully all of our citizens.
 

Tangerine

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Retro -

Great post. I would add yet ANOTHER key element that must be addressed: Pharmaceuticals.

It's not lost on me that the rapid inflation of medical costs coincides exactly with the advent of public, consumer-direct advertising of individual medications. Once people were told to "ask your doctor" about this drug and that drug, the demand/supply balance went haywire and costs went right along with it.
 

Alien Allen

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The medicine component of health insurance costs is fast approaching the cost for the health care portion. There are far too many drugs being dispensed by doctors and they are prescribing the most expensive ones when many times that is not needed. My brother was on stuff for an infection that cost $1k a week and he was on it for weeks. Are you telling me the shit they had available 20 years ago would not work? I might add he got the infection at the hospital. And there is far too much of that happening. Something is wrong there for that to be happening.
 
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