guns

[Peter Parka]

canada and england doesn't have the blackmarket gun problem as badly as we do I'm sure

Thats an interesting point. It is possible to get guys on theblackmarket here but not as easy as it is in the USA. Why do you think this is? Do you think it would be less easy if getting guns legally wasn't so easy too? I suggest that it wouldn't be.

 

[All Else Failed]

Damn straight. It's terrifying that we live in a country where 17k suicides are being used to justify owning guns.

Maybe it doesn't present a danger to others, but a suicide is still a death. People who are suicidal can definitely be very creative when it comes to offing themselves, but I don't believe for a second that suicides would be anywhere near where they are if it wasn't so easy. With a gun, it's not like there's any going back once you've had the split second thought to pull the trigger.

Gun related suicides shouldn't count in "gun related death" statistics. Why? Because it doesn't hurt anyone but the person killing themselves with a gun. The fact that they used a gun to die is purely coincidence and situational.

Theres also usually no going back if you jump off a chair with a rope around your neck, or after downing 20 random pills. What you use to kill yourself is pretty much irrelevant.

 

[All Else Failed]

Thats an interesting point. It is possible to get guys on theblackmarket here but not as easy as it is in the USA. Why do you think this is? Do you think it would be less easy if getting guns legally wasn't so easy too? I suggest that it wouldn't be.

Most illegal arms are imported by big black market suppliers and sorted through the criminal underground. it wouldn't matter what you legislate, criminals will always have guns.

 

[Suzie]

GUN related deaths. Its a gun... so it is part of the statistics. I dont think they are going to say. This many people died by guns, oh, besides the people that used guns to kill themselves.

 

[UncleBacon]

and a criminal with a gun that comes into my place is going to have a very long bad day because I'm a damn good shot and I have about 1000 rounds

 

[All Else Failed]

GUN related deaths. Its a gun... so it is part of the statistics. I dont think they are going to say. This many people died by guns, oh, besides the people that used guns to kill themselves.

How many of those deaths were in defense, and therefore justifiable?

They SHOULD differentiate between the causes behind the deaths, or you will have an extremely vague statistic that can be used to distort facts.

 

[Suzie]

I wonder how many of those deaths were planned to LOOK like "suicidal deaths"...but were actually murders...hmmmmm

 

[Peter Parka]

As opposed as I am to guns, I don't see that the suicides by them are so big a problem, as someone said there are still plenty of other ways of topping yourself quickly, we don't get many people shooting themself here but plenty of them gas themselves in their car or hang themselves which really isn't that difficult to do,

 

[TheOriginalJames]

The average person who goes on a rampage is slashing or shooting around randomly, now how is someone slashing randomly at you with a knife going to be more likely to kill loads of people than someone peppering a room with bullets from a sub machine gun?

Because with a knife people aren't going to start running away unless you wander up into a crowded cafeteria and jab someone in the throat.

You're missing the entire point of how long it took the police in VA to get the call and respond to the shootings in the first place. If HE had a knife, then it might have been the next day before anyone noticed.

 

[All Else Failed]

Even though I'm a huge supporter of a person owning a legal gun, I think that some of the lax gun laws in some of the states NEED to be strengthened.

 

[Peter Parka]

If I saw someone trying to attack me with a knife and trust me I would if he was a madman on a rampage, I would run away. Unless he could run faster than me, I could get away unlike if he had a gun and just shoot me in the back.

 

[NicAuf]

Even though I'm a huge supporter of a person owning a legal gun, I think that some of the lax gun laws in some of the states NEED to be strengthened.

Yeah the gun laws suck in the US, especially compared to England's.

According to wikipedia (so Im not sure if this is correct) here's how one in the UK goes about getting a firearm certificate:

To obtain a firearm certificate, the police must be convinced that a person has "good reason" to own each gun, and that they can be trusted with it "without danger to the public safety or to the peace". Under Home Office guidelines, gun licences are only issued if a person has legitimate sporting or work-related reasons for owning a gun. Since 1946, self-defence has not been considered a valid reason to own a gun. The current licensing procedure involves: positive verification of identity, two referees of verifiably good character who have known the applicant for at least two years (and who may themselves be interviewed and/or investigated as part of the certification), approval of the application by the applicant's own family doctor, an inspection of the premises and cabinet where guns will be kept and a face-to-face interview by a Firearms Enquiry Officer (FEO) also known as a Firearms Liaison Officer (FLO). A thorough background check of the applicant is then made by Special Branch on behalf of the firearms licensing department. Only when all these stages have been satisfactorily completed, will a licence be issued.

Seems pretty tough.

 

[Peter Parka]

Thats right Nikauf, well researched. It may seem tough but it isn't really, I have no reason or want to own a gun, well maybe for hunting would be nice but I can live just fine without it. The benifits, that I don't have to realistically worry about being shot, far outwiegh any minor disadvantages in my book.

 

[memento_mori]

people keep talking about how bombs and knives. i keep thinking about madmen on the loose with crossbows.

 

[All Else Failed]

Thats right Nikauf, well researched. It may seem tough but it isn't really, I have no reason or want to own a gun, well maybe for hunting would be nice but I can live just fine without it. The benifits, that I don't have to realistically worry about being shot, far outwiegh any minor disadvantages in my book.

I don't see having a mass amount of people being disarmed a minor disadvantage. When you disarm innocent people all you are doing is making a criminal's job easier. (Especially in America.)

 

[Peter Parka]

We're not disarmed though, there are plenty of other weapons we can use for self defense which haven't got the same likelyhood of killing. I myself saw off a would be burglar to my flat my slashing him round the face with a bike chain. If guns were as readily available over here then maybe I would have worried that he'd shoot me instead of screaming in pain and running away. The only people you realistically have to worry about over here with guns are gangsters and if you don't mix in their world the're highly unlikely to have a reason to shoot you.

 

[TheOriginalJames]

I have a scenerio for you Peter. We'll see if you still are against owning firearms.

I have a buddy, he works for the allen county containment center. AKA the Jail, downtown.

We were at his house with a couple of his buddies from the jail there. They all had their 9mm pistols right by their sides. For their own protection.

One of the guys was telling a story of how he was in his house at 11 pm trying to get to sleep and heard someone wandering around his yard trying to break in. It turned out to be an ex-inmate that he'd helped house and keep in check. This guy had threatened him several times.

Now whether or not the ex-inmate had a gun or not. You feel it's unnecessary for this containment officer to carry a weapon for his own self-protection?

Bacon proved a point to go along with this post - it's a lot easier to disarm someone with a knife in close combat. If you've had an ex-inmate threaten you and threaten you while he was in jail. Would you rather have a gun, a chain or a knife to protect yourself from him while keeping your distance from him?

 

[Peter Parka]

Like I said before, because guns arn't widely available here, a low life common burglar/ house breaker probably wouldn't have a gun here so I wouldn't be worried about being shot.

 

[TheOriginalJames]

Like I said before, because guns arn't widely available here, a low life common burglar/ house breaker probably wouldn't have a gun here so I wouldn't be worried about being shot.

That wasn't my question. If you were in this guys shoes, would you rather have a gun, a knife, or a chain?

You don't know who it is, you don't know how big he is, you don't know what his fighting ability is like. You simply do not know, you would rather swing a chain around in a hit or miss situation in the middle of your house? Or would you rather be 10 feet away pointing the end of a glock at him forcing him to basically become your little bitch for the next 20 minutes until the police show up?

 

[All Else Failed]

We're not disarmed though, there are plenty of other weapons we can use for self defense which haven't got the same likelyhood of killing. I myself saw off a would be burglar to my flat my slashing him round the face with a bike chain. If guns were as readily available over here then maybe I would have worried that he'd shoot me instead of screaming in pain and running away. The only people you realistically have to worry about over here with guns are gangsters and if you don't mix in their world the're highly unlikely to have a reason to shoot you.

If a person comes at me with intent to harm or kill, I'd rather have a gun than a bike chain...I definitely would not want a level playing field when fending my life.