Gun News Talk

[Accountable]

So what is the solution? I'm not saying I have the answer. I just disagree with some people's premise that there is nothing that can be done and we just have to accept movie theater and school rooms being shot up in the name of gun ownership.

I can't keep track where I post sometimes. In another forum I suggested that we incorporate firearm safety and hunting classes into late elementary/early middle school:

I would guess that the places where gun use is common, part of daily life, would have the lowest instances of gun death by accident or rage. Small towns and rural areas. I don't know because I haven't done the research. If my guess is accurate, then maybe the answer for the US is to teach kids gun use and gun safety rather than making them taboo, and do it early, before bad elements can make it a cool way to break the rules. Teach hunting in late elementary/early middle school.


Hunting does not make a child bloodthirsty. Hunting shows with graphic intensity that a gun has the power to kill, and it teaches it with safety and responsibility.

 

[Accountable]

Nothing he proposed yesterday except veiled mental health changes will stop the nuts from shooting. Tim Mcveigh used fertilizer and killed 10X the number of people, many of them daycare kids. Nuts and criminals will always find a way. Declaring my weapons as illegal will not change change the fact that they have never killed any humans. I will not be defenseless against intruders or a government run wild. A return to moral values in our culture would go a long way to solving the problem. End the over sensationalized media coverage of the nuts would also help.

We should confiscate all fertilizer. It is only used to kill, and it contributes to global warming.

 

[The Man]

No we don't. We have over 200 million guns, a minuscule fraction of those used in crime, an even smaller number used in mass killings. We have over 300 million people, a minuscule fraction of them mentally unstable, only a handful involved in mass killings.

This is not a federal problem.

Perhaps...but these "glorified" killings are on the rise.
People are changing...our moral and value system isnt what it used to be.

 

[Minor Axis]

Perhaps...but these "glorified" killings are on the rise.
People are changing...our moral and value system isnt what it used to be.

When you go on a spree and then "off" yourself, that hits me as mental illness.

 

[Accountable]

They sound reasonable to me. Any counters about why these ideas are bad or not reasonable?

Obama Signs 23 Executive Actions Regarding Guns

Which of these do you imagine would have saved the Newtown children?

 

[The Man]

When you go on a spree and then "off" yourself, that hits me as mental illness.

Mentally ill does not always equate to dangerous, besides people kill all the time that are found of sound mind.

Again it goes back to our morals and values.....unless one wants to claim its genetic, are you suggesting its genetic?

 

[porterjack]

Which of these do you imagine would have saved the Newtown children?

the one about mental health - if done 20 years ago might have made a difference

 

[Accountable]

http://www.whitehouse.gov/issues/preventing-gun-violence#what-we-can-do


http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/docs/wh_now_is_the_time_full.pdf

 

[Minor Axis]

Mentally ill does not always equate to dangerous, besides people kill all the time that are found of sound mind.

Again it goes back to our morals and values.....unless one wants to claim its genetic, are you suggesting its genetic?

I did not say or imply that. I agree that human values in this country are on the decline at some level. BTW, arming up as a way of life does not seem to be a good value either. It may be a reaction to declining values, but having to own a gun should not be the destination we want to arrive at.

Which of these do you imagine would have saved the Newtown children?

Less readily available guns is the answer. I can't say that any of them would have saved them, but that does not mean they are bad ideas to address a problem in general.

 

[Accountable]

Less readily available guns is the answer. I can't say that any of them would have saved them, but that does not mean they are bad ideas to address a problem in general.

The claim was to protect the children. Not one of these things would have prevented the mom from purchasing the guns. Not one would have kept the son from doing what he did.

So what is the real purpose of the action? Dare you ask yourself?

 

[Minor Axis]

God, Accountable... Reduce gun deaths in this country. Is the idea inconceivable to you? :smiley24:

 

[Accountable]

God, Accountable... Reduce gun deaths in this country. Is the idea inconceivable to you? :smiley24:

It's the duplicitous nature of the whole thing that I don't like. Part of his speech was about the number of people who've been shot to death since the school murders. He didn't indicate how many of them were because of high-capacity clips or assault-style rifles. I don't have the text in front of me, but did he indicate that most of those deaths were by handguns? Single-victim shootings? How many were by legal/illegal weapons? Anything like that?

I'd love some candor. I don't think there's anyone in Washington that is capable. President Obama has made this a gut-level, hyper-emotional issue. We shouldn't be making adult decisions like that. That's when good people get fucked by smooth talkers.

 

[Joe the meek]

They sound reasonable to me. Any counters about why these ideas are bad or not reasonable?

Obama Signs 23 Executive Actions Regarding Guns

It was a cop out and nothing more than a political gesture by the president. He (the president) put the weight of trying to do anything onto congress.

I do find it funny how the Obama adminstration and some others criticize the NRA for pointing out who's children has armed protection (including the presidents) and using children to make a point, but low and behold who is front and center for the media when Obama "takes action" on guns? Children.

 

[Jackass master]

 

[Minor Axis]

Gotta love conservatives.

 

[Jackass master]

Gotta love conservatives.

Gotta love how liberals want to punish the many for the actions of the few.

 

[Minor Axis]

Gotta love how liberals want to punish the many for the actions of the few.

You've got a perspective problem. People are being mowed down on more and more frequent occasions in public places by people having guns that should not. As you may know in every society, since the start of humanity, the more civilized we become, the less individual liberties we get to keep, especially when it comes to facilitating convenient mass murder.

 

[The Man]

You've got a perspective problem. People are being mowed down on more and more frequent occasions in public places by people having guns that should not. As you may know in every society, since the start of humanity, the more civilized we become, the less individual liberties we get to keep, especially when it comes to facilitating convenient mass murder.

So do you want to ban cars?...I suspect there are more deaths by dwi than shootings.

 

[The Man]

Nothing he proposed yesterday except veiled mental health changes will stop the nuts from shooting. Tim Mcveigh used fertilizer and killed 10X the number of people, many of them daycare kids. Nuts and criminals will always find a way. Declaring my weapons as illegal will not change change the fact that they have never killed any humans. I will not be defenseless against intruders or a government run wild. A return to moral values in our culture would go a long way to solving the problem. End the over sensationalized media coverage of the nuts would also help.

Excellent points.

 

[Kakapo Dundee]

the largest school massacre in US history was with a bomb and not guns about 90 years ago in a tiny city in mid Michigan

you can remove the guns but people that are nuts will find a way

another factor is how these incidents are handled by the media. the media loves a big epic story. they would accomplish much more if they paid as much attention to the individual murders. the only time that happens though is when an innocent child gets killed. the daily murders just barely if at all get any mention.

It looks rather desperate when your comparisons come from historic sources. But then the main argument used as an excuse for gun ownership dates back centuries.