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Kakapo Dundee

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Looks like I have The Man well and truly on the ropes. He's resorting to the most futile of posts, to call them arguments would be an insult to anyone who ever posted in a debate forum.

Clearly 'The Man' has in inappropriate username. Walk away sonny, the food here is too rich for you.
 
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Kakapo Dundee

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Highest 10 country death by homicide rates. Perhaps one of the card carrying pacifists might want to look at what the gun laws are like in these countries. The first two are far from being the wild west. Nah that would mean they would have to admit that many have far tougher gun restrictions than the US. The first two do that is for sure.

http://www.nationmaster.com/red/gra...gun-violence-homicides-firearms&b_printable=1

1. Thailand
2. South Africa
3. Columbia
4. Slovakia
5. Guatemala
6. Zimbawe
7. US
8. Paraguay
9. Macedonia
10 Uraguay

Seriously? you'd rather hide behind the statistics of third world countries than address the issues? I'm sure you see the USA as being a more advanced country than any of those listed. Are you not ashamed that your country's homicide rates sit among such backward and damaged nations?
 

Kakapo Dundee

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"The powers delegated by the proposed constition to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the state governments are numorus and indefinite". Federalist 45 Guess folks in NZ have no clue what local and state power is all about.


LOL.....I ain't the one with his head stuck firmly in 1788.

It's time you abandoned the obsolete grandstanding of pompous 18th century slaveholders.
 

Alien Allen

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Seriously? you'd rather hide behind the statistics of third world countries than address the issues? I'm sure you see the USA as being a more advanced country than any of those listed. Are you not ashamed that your country's homicide rates sit among such backward and damaged nations?

Sometime facts are inconvenient. You want stringent gun control. Some of those countries have it. You have no answer to that other than this tripe? You are a fucking trip dude. :D
 

Joe the meek

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LOL.....I ain't the one with his head stuck firmly in 1788.

It's time you abandoned the obsolete grandstanding of pompous 18th century slaveholders.

Be it 1788, 1288 or 2008, if a goernment has aboslute power, sooner or later that power will be abused over it's people. It may take a a couple of centuries, but it will still come.

I believe the men who founded the United States realized this.

Ironic that our country was founded on the idea of freedom FROM religion yet we try so hard to incorporate into our government now.
 

Alien Allen

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Be it 1788, 1288 or 2008, if a goernment has aboslute power, sooner or later that power will be abused over it's people. It may take a a couple of centuries, but it will still come.
Give up Joe. Pacifist socialists don't care. You can give them all the stats in the world and the logic to support it and they will still bury their head in the sand. They will be the last one to close the door and wonder what the fuck happened when it was right there in front of them the whole time.

Time to quit feeding the troll.
 

Minor Axis

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Sometime facts are inconvenient. You want stringent gun control. Some of those countries have it. You have no answer to that other than this tripe? You are a fucking trip dude. :D

It's a fact the U.S. has a problem like no other Western country. We can try to figure out why and do something about it or do nothing which by the way, is exactly what the gun lobby wants. Unregulated gun ownership is the goal of the NRA, that's a fact. And speaking of tripe, you reply has no value.
 
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I have read every post in this long thread, and only seen the mention of personal responsibility in one post. To me thats the first problem that needs to be solved before taking away peoples rights to arm and defend theirselves.

Secondly the NRA has been trying for decades to get the government to address the mental health issues which is the second most important thing IMO, and they have failed miserablly in doing so which Wayne LaPierre points out in his response to Obama's state of the union address.

If anyone really wants to debate the issue of "gun control" this is a must watch video in my opinion. If you dont want to have an honest debate then continue with the "redneck hillbilly" rederick which has been mentioned in this thread several times. If you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

Wayne LaPierre Responds to State of the Union Address

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9_7_josQgU
 

Alien Allen

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It's a fact the U.S. has a problem like no other Western country. We can try to figure out why and do something about it or do nothing which by the way, is exactly what the gun lobby wants. Unregulated gun ownership is the goal of the NRA, that's a fact. And speaking of tripe, you reply has no value.

Prove that

I dare ya
 

Joe the meek

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I have read every post in this long thread, and only seen the mention of personal responsibility in one post. To me thats the first problem that needs to be solved before taking away peoples rights to arm and defend theirselves.

The problem with personal responsibilty is the same as with common sense. More and more people don't have it, and those who do are paying the price.

As far as redneck hillbilly's goes, all one has to do is go to youtube to see all the idiots with firearms.

And yes, I own a gun.
 

Alien Allen

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Chicago and Washington DC have the toughest gun restrictions in the country and yet both have very high murder rates per capita

This is the FBI site which has a lot of data to sift thru
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...10/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded


Interesting article in The Guardian. Hardly a right wing apologist paper
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jan/10/gun-crime-us-state

Just like the UK, the United States has seen a long-term decline in crime, with firearms offences seeing a steeper fall than other crimes

If you look at the firearms murder rate per 100,000 people, District of Columbia comes out top - with 12 firearms murders per 100,000 men, women and children in the state. There were 77 firearms murders in DC in 2010, down 22% on 2009
 

The Man

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Funny

If there was one country I'd wanted to move to and live out my life 20 years ago, it would of been New Zealand.

My wife works with some consulants from New Zealand. She even mentioned she wouldn't mind living there lol

I used to think the same thing...NZ has always supposed to have been a little paradise so to say...its all about perception..we have the perception its a great place.
Then there is the perception the US is a bad place.
Turns out its all misinformation

NZ comes in at the bottom of this list for people feeling safe walkiing after dark

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_per_of_saf_wal_in_dar-crime-perception-safety-walking-dark

Number one in property crimes such as burglary

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_pro_cri_vic-crime-property-victims

3rd in rape

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_rat-crime-rape-rate

3rd in assaults

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_ass_vic-crime-assault-victims
One in this rape category

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_vic-crime-rape-victims


Leader in suicide

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_sui_rat_in_age_15_24-suicide-rates-ages-15-24


As we can see its no paradise....the US is paradise in comparison.

Its the people not the guns....NZ has alot of criminal activity and has strong gun control in comparison
 
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The Man

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Looks like I have The Man well and truly on the ropes. He's resorting to the most futile of posts, to call them arguments would be an insult to anyone who ever posted in a debate forum.

Clearly 'The Man' has in inappropriate username. Walk away sonny, the food here is too rich for you.

Not at all....America merely catches bad publicity ..while it is a decent place to live.
NZ has given a false perception of itself to lure more people...truth be known its filled with criminals
The dishonest front is just an effort to lure people in and no more.
 

Jackass master

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I’m Glad That I Don’t Have Canadian Murder Rates Where I Live

Surprising results when comparing murder rates for specific Canadian provinces with their American neighbors.


I recently prepared for an interview with the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation concerning the tragedy in Newtown, Connecticut. I thought it would be worth my while to compare murder rates between the two countries, but also between adjoining divisions of those two countries. There was a time when Canadian murder rates were low enough compared to the U.S. for American gun-control advocates to argue in favor of Canadian style gun control for our country. This is no longer the case.
It is certainly true that for Canada as a whole, murder rates are still considerably lower than for the United States as a whole. For 2011, Canada had 1.73 homicides per 100,000 people; the United States had 4.8 murders and non-negligent homicides per 100,000 people. What I find fascinating, however, is to look at murder rates for Canadian provinces and compare them to their immediate American state neighbors. When you do that, you discover some very curious differences that show gun availability must be either a very minor factor in determining murder rates, or if it is a major factor, it is overwhelmed by factors that are vastly more important.
For example, I live in Idaho. In 2011, our murder rate was 2.3 per 100,000 people. We have almost no gun-control laws here. You need a permit to carry concealed in cities, but nearly anyone who may legally own a firearm and is over 21 can get that permit. We are subject to the federal background check on firearms, but otherwise there are no restrictions. Do you want a machine gun? And yes, I mean a real machine gun, not a semiautomatic AR-15. There is the federal paperwork required, but the state imposes no licensing of its own. I have friends with completely legal full-automatic Thompson submachine guns.
Surely with such lax gun-control laws, our murder rate must be much higher than our Canadian counterparts’ rate. But this is not the case: I was surprised to find that not only Nunavut (21.01) and the Northwest Territories (6.87) in Canada had much higher murder rates than Idaho, but even Nova Scotia (2.33), Manitoba (4.24), Saskatchewan (3.59), and Alberta (2.88) had higher murder rates. (Okay, Nova Scotia is just a teensy-weensy bit higher than Idaho for 2011.)
What about Minnesota? It had 1.4 murders per 100,000 in 2011, lower than not only all those prairie provinces, but even lower than Canada as a whole. Montana had 2.8 murders per 100,000, still better than for Canadian provinces and one Canadian territory. When you get to North Dakota, another one of these American states with far less gun control than Canada, the murder rate is 3.5 per 100,000, still lower than Manitoba, Saskatchewan, the Northwest Territories, and Nunavut. And let me emphasize that Minnesota, Montana, and North Dakota, like Idaho, are all shall-issue concealed-weapon permit states: nearly any adult without a felony conviction or a domestic violence misdemeanor conviction can obtain a concealed weapon permit with little or no effort.
At this point, you’re going to point out that there are many American states that have very high murder rates, especially in the South, and on the coasts. This is certainly true, but irrelevant to the question of whether gun-control laws reduce murder rates. If gun availability or a lack of restrictive gun-control laws was sufficient to explain any substantial part of murder rates, then these low restriction states should have higher murder rates than their Canadian neighbors, and yet if anything, the situation is the reverse: the Canadian provinces often have higher murder rate than their low gun-control American counterparts.
There are very real social problems that contribute to differences in murder rates. If gun availability is one of those contributors, it must be a very unimportant part of that contribution. Perhaps those focused on gun control as a method of saving lives might be better off concentrating on the social problems that really matter.
 
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