Germany 1940 - Israel 2009

[Alien Allen]

anybody can draw a map

does not mean squat

There never was a Palestinian state

 

[Strauss]

Make absolutely no doubt about it, the construction of Israeli settlements in land that is regarded as belonging to the Palestinians is recognized by just about every nation on the planet as a blatant breach of international law.

Nice qualifiers. So who are these countries? China, North Korea, Cuba Venezuela etc. There is no question that cetain ultra-conservative citizens of Israel have illegal built on Palestinian land but those settlements have been knocked down by the Israeli government.

I found this rather interesting.

Hate to tell you but Palestine referred to a region not a people. Jews lived in Palestine long before there were Palestinians.

 

[Kyle B]

I never said that Iran had cordial relations with Israel, if you read my post correctly. Also, it cannot be definitively proven that Iran is seeking to build a nuclear weapon. Iran, if taken at their word (Something which I am quite skeptical about) are only developing nuclear power for civilian purposes. Something which they are legally entitled to under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.

I pointed out Iran because of your response to Alien Allen:

"That argument may have been true thirty years ago, but now it's completely unfounded. For one, Israel made peace with Egypt in 1979. Israel is also at peace with Jordan too, and relations have remained cordial for the past several decades. Syria doesn't exactly want Israel 'eliminated' either, and have expressed desire for peace with the Israel's too, on condition that Israel returns the Golan Heights region to Syria."

In that post, you conveniently left out Iran. I felt that it was necessary to point out that Alien Allen's argument was indeed valid because there are countries in the modern world, such as Iran, that could care less about peace and want Israel wiped off the map.

If you want to go into semantics, the only country in the Middle East with both nuclear capability, both military and civilian, is Israel. It is estimated that they have about 400 warheads in their arsenal. Under international law, Israel is not permitted to develop nuclear weapons, and nor are they a signatory to the NPT.

I agree with your point somewhat. I believe limiting the amount of nuclear weapons in the world is a goal that every nation should work towards. I would prefer a nuclear-free Israel just as I would prefer a nuclear-free world.

However, Israel's possible possession of nuclear weapons doesn't give the Iranians the right to develop them as well. We want the world to have less nukes, not more.

 

[Tuffdisc]

Powerful images, some though provoking

 

[Accountable]

However, Israel's possible possession of nuclear weapons doesn't give the Iranians the right to develop them as well.

You're correct. Iran's right is part of their status as a sovereign nation, just like the rest of us who developed nukes.

 

[Meirionnydd]

Nice qualifiers. So who are these countries? China, North Korea, Cuba Venezuela etc. There is no question that cetain ultra-conservative citizens of Israel have illegal built on Palestinian land but those settlements have been knocked down by the Israeli government.

No actually. Countries such as the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Italy and the United States, consider the settlements illegal.

And they're not talking about 'certain' settlements built on Palestinian land, they're referring to all of them.

 

[Strauss]

No actually. Countries such as the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Italy and the United States, consider the settlements illegal.

And they're not talking about 'certain' settlements built on Palestinian land, they're referring to all of them.

Show me that all are "illegal".

 

[All Else Failed]

This made me a bit sick.

Caution Some of these images are Graphic and Gross

GERMANY 1940 ISRAEL 2009


What do y'all think?

This is a pretty retarded comparison.

 

[Strauss]

This is a pretty retarded comparison.

No shit, I agree.

 

[nova]

Quite simple really. The Palestinians are hell bent and determined to be their own country. When you're an independent country, your citizens are not necessarily going to have the right to free travel into neighboring countries.

Also, if you are or are allowing your citizens to launch rockets into neighboring countries, don't be surprised when they come and bomb the shit out of you.

Over the last 10-15 years, it has seemed more and more like the Palestinians want to have their cake and eat it too. They want all the rights of an independent state with none of the restrictions and none of the responsibilities.

 

[Meirionnydd]

Show me that all are "illegal".

Read the text of the United Nations Security Council resolutions, 446, 452, 465, 471 and 476. They show an international consensus on the illegality of Israeli settlements in the occupied territories.

It might also be worth reading:

The Big Question: What are Israeli settlements, and why are they coming under pressure? - Middle East, World - The Independent

Was this process legal?

The most straightforward answer is: in international law no and in Israeli law yes. Oddly, one of the first people to say that it would be illegal in international law was Theodor Meron, the legal adviser to the Israeli foreign ministry immediately after the Six Day War. In secret advice which went to the then Prime Minister Levi Eshkol he argued that it contravened various conventions prohibiting the settling of civilians on occupied territory.

Meron, who went on to become one of the world's most eminent international jurists, has never wavered from that view. The US has been somewhat equivocal over the years about the legal position. But the large majority of Western countries (including Britain), the UN, and the International Court of Justice, which restated its view in a 2004 advisory opinion on the military's separation barrier, say that settlements are illegal, whether in the West Bank or East Jerusalem. And the 2003 Road Map, with the backing of the US, called for a total freeze on settlement construction. Israel's government and judiciary, however have never accepted that view.



Does this apply to the settlement 'outposts' that people are talking about?

No. Most of these are blatantly illegal even under Israeli law (even though various government departments often covertly help them, for example by providing electricity and water). Which is why Benjamin Netanyahu and his defence minister Ehud Barak say they will actually do something about (some of) them. A typical outpost is a collection of mobile homes on a ridge some way from an existing settlement, and can be the way a future settlement starts, or an existing one expanded.

A 2005 government report by Talia Sasson – commissioned by then Prime Minister Ariel Sharon – excoriated ministers for not dismantling 22 outposts in particular. But neither his government nor that of Ehud Olmert did anything about it, with the exception of nine houses in the single outpost of Amona. Anti-settlement activists have long called for the outposts to be dismantled but they will worry that Netanyahu intends to try and mollify the Americans by dismantling the outposts while continuing growth in the settlements themselves.

 

[Strauss]

Read the text of the United Nations Security Council resolutions, 446, 452, 465, 471 and 476. They show an international consensus on the illegality of Israeli settlements in the occupied territories.

You missed my point. Not all are illegal. The ones that are have been or are being removed by the Israeli government.