Germany 1940 - Israel 2009

[Alien Allen]

Until the Palestinians no longer make war against Israel, that would be the proper kill ratio. So I guess it's up to the Palestinians to determine how much and how many they want to die.

How many attacks has Israel had on Jordan and Egypt in the last oh lets say 20 years give or take

Takes two to tango and I still don't understand how people ignore Israels co existence with the above

There is something amiss. And it is not all coming from Israel

 

[PoopaSwoof]

Until the Palestinians no longer make war against Israel, that would be the proper kill ratio. So I guess it's up to the Palestinians to determine how much and how many they want to die.

So it's all the Palestinians fault?
They did this to themselves?

 

[PoopaSwoof]

How many attacks has Israel had on Jordan and Egypt in the last oh lets say 20 years give or take

Takes two to tango and I still don't understand how people ignore Israels co existence with the above

There is something amiss. And it is not all coming from Israel

I agree.

 

[Tangerine]

So bombing the shit out of the Gaza strip, killing thousands of Palestinians, then blockading it was an act of self defense?

Yes.

And to say they haven't been attacked by "another country" is a horseshit way of denying the truth by using some trite technicality. Palestine isn't a country, right?

Let's see how you answer this:
Has Isreal been attacked by ANYONE since the 70's? Have any innocent Israeliis been killed since the 70's?

 

[Alien Allen]

why is it the Palestinians don't make claims for parts of Jordan? Their is as much of a claim they could make to there yet they only want parts of Israel. At least this is how I seem to interpret things.

 

[Strauss]

So it's all the Palestinians fault?
They did this to themselves?

No, most Palestinians are hard working peaceful individuals but it's is their responsibility to "curtail" the radical element within their own society. Arafat is dead time to move on and neuter the radical element.

 

[PoopaSwoof]

No, most Palestinians are hard working peaceful individuals but it's is their responsibility to "curtail" the radical element within their own society. Arafat is dead time to move on and neuter the radical element.

What kind of environment breeds radicals?

 

[PoopaSwoof]

why is it the Palestinians don't make claims for parts of Jordan? Their is as much of a claim they could make to there yet they only want parts of Israel. At least this is how I seem to interpret things.

If you look at older maps then they could lay claims to parts of Syria too.

 

[Alien Allen]

If you look at older maps then they could lay claims to parts of Syria too.

Yet they only are after parts or all of Israel.

As the church lady said..... HOW CONVENIENT

 

[PoopaSwoof]

Yet they only are after parts or all of Israel.

As the church lady said..... HOW CONVENIENT

As convenient as the ever encroaching settlements in what was left of the Palestinian territories?

 

[Strauss]

What kind of environment breeds radicals?

A lot of environments, what is your point? They are radical because Israel exists, period. You going to excuse their conduct?

 

[Strauss]

As convenient as the ever encroaching settlements in what was left of the Palestinian territories?

There have never been Palestinian territories. Let's not start making up history.

 

[PoopaSwoof]

A lot of environments, what is your point? They are radical because Israel exists, period. You going to excuse their conduct?

You're not wanting to see my point.
I aint making excuses for anyone involved.

If you quit killing their families and taking their land and building walls around them then maybe they wont be quite as pissed off.:dunno

Well That's all for me for tonight folks.
Good evening and let's continue this later.
Thanks for a civil and interesting discussion.:thumbup

 

[PoopaSwoof]

There have never been Palestinian territories. Let's not start making up history.

:surrender:surrender

 

[imayoda]

s.

How is it that you don't see people from Egypt strapping bombs and hitting the streets in Israel. Same with Jordan.

Not for a lack of sentiment so much as a fear of the police.

 

[Meirionnydd]

With all due respect that is bullshit

I am really not all that fond of the whole region but Israel is surrounded by those who want them eliminated. Iran and Syria being the big players.

How is it that you don't see people from Egypt strapping bombs and hitting the streets in Israel. Same with Jordan.

That argument may have been true thirty years ago, but now it's completely unfounded. For one, Israel made peace with Egypt in 1979. Israel is also at peace with Jordan too, and relations have remained cordial for the past several decades. Syria doesn't exactly want Israel 'eliminated' either, and have expressed desire for peace with the Israel's too, on condition that Israel returns the Golan Heights region to Syria.

Israel will make peace with those who want it. They have proven that. Arafat had a chance and blew it. The Palestinians want Israel. They think if they will just attack like gnats that it will break Israels will. Maybe they are right. They sure don't seem to be looking for peace.

Arafat never had a chance at creating a sovereign Palestinian state. The Oslo agreement was a complete farce. The details of the agreement favored the Israeli's immeasurably, and were almost unpalatable to the Palestinians.

Under the agreement, only 2.7% of Palestine was to be under the complete control of the Palestinian Authority (Known as Area A). The other administrative divisions either allowed limited Palestinian control (Area B ) or were under full Israeli control (Area C). Among the other provisions of the agreement were that the PNA would have almost no control over the territories borders, airspace or natural resources and the issue of illegal Israeli setters in the Palestinian territories were left unresolved.

Arafat was always known for his readiness to accept nearly any deal with Israel that would secure a sovereign Palestinian state, so he went along with it. Unfortunately for Arafat, the Palestinians were not so impressed, and considered it a confirmation of permanent Israeli control over the occupied territories. As such, Arafat slowly started to lose legitimacy among his people, and subsequently turned to other groups such as Fatah and Hamas. (Ironically enough, the Israeli's helped create Hamas, as a counterbalance to the PLO several decades ago)

The Israeli approach to peace in the Palestinian territories have changed significantly since the Oslo agreement. First the motto was 'land for peace', then it eventually changed to 'land for security', the latter atmosphere is almost completely impracticable and impossible to create. And hence, the conflict continues.

 

[Meirionnydd]

There have never been Palestinian territories. Let's not start making up history.

Make absolutely no doubt about it, the construction of Israeli settlements in land that is regarded as belonging to the Palestinians is recognized by just about every nation on the planet as a blatant breach of international law.

Furthermore, the illegality of the settlements are stated in the Geneva conventions (Articles 2 and 49), and subsequent UN security council resolutions. As the legal arm of the United Nations, the International Court of Justice had also declared the settlements to be illegal under international law.

The construction of settlements are designed to deny the Palestinians control over strategic points, (such as mountains, roads) and vital resources. Some individuals have commented that this practice can pave the way for the eventual annexation of the West Bank by Israel. Either way, the settlements further subjugates and denies the population from the full use of their land.

 

[Kyle B]

That argument may have been true thirty years ago, but now it's completely unfounded. For one, Israel made peace with Egypt in 1979. Israel is also at peace with Jordan too, and relations have remained cordial for the past several decades. Syria doesn't exactly want Israel 'eliminated' either, and have expressed desire for peace with the Israel's too, on condition that Israel returns the Golan Heights region to Syria.

You forgot to mention Iran.

Good ol' Ahmadinijad doesn't mind sharing his opinions of Israel from time to time. If I remember correctly, he wants Israel wiped off the map and denies the holocaust.

There's something else that may also bother the Israelis about Iran. Hmmmm, I can't seem to remember what it is at the time.....:humm:

Oh yes, the Iranians are trying to build a nuclear bomb! Not only is that a threat to Israel, but to the stability of the entire region. I wouldn't exactly say that relations are "cordial".

I'd also take anything that Assad says with a grain of salt. If Israel did give Syria the Golan hights, that may ease things for a bit. However, it wouldn't surprise me if Syria continued to support Palestinian terrorists.

 

[Meirionnydd]

You forgot to mention Iran.

Good ol' Ahmadinijad doesn't mind sharing his opinions of Israel from time to time. If I remember correctly, he wants Israel wiped off the map and denies the holocaust.

There's something else that may also bother the Israelis about Iran as well. Hmmmm, I can't seem to remember what it is at the time.....:humm:

Oh yes, the Iranians are trying to build a nuclear bomb! Not only is that a threat to Israel, but to the stability of the entire region. I wouldn't exactly say that relations are "cordial".

I never said that Iran had cordial relations with Israel, if you read my post correctly. Also, it cannot be definitively proven that Iran is seeking to build a nuclear weapon. Iran, if taken at their word (Something which I am quite skeptical about) are only developing nuclear power for civilian purposes. Something which they are legally entitled to under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.

If you want to go into semantics, the only country in the Middle East with both nuclear capability, both military and civilian, is Israel. It is estimated that they have about 400 warheads in their arsenal. Under international law, Israel is not permitted to develop nuclear weapons, and nor are they a signatory to the NPT.

I'd also take anything that Assad says with a grain of salt. If Israel did give Syria the Golan hights, that may ease things for a bit. However, it wouldn't surprise me if Syria continued to support Palestinian terrorists.

Agreed.

 

[PoopaSwoof]

There have never been Palestinian territories. Let's not start making up history.

I found this rather interesting.