Eternity

[Panacea]

What are your thoughts?

Do humans exist in some form before and/or after life?
Where?
How?

I have personally always thought eternity sounds like the human survival instinct blown up into a desire to live forever, and I admit I have no idea if we exist before and/or after life as we know it. There's really nothing that tells me we do, so I don't bank on it whatsoever. Thought I'd ask.

 

[Tim]

I personally do not believe in the concept of eternity.

Time and space are not eternal so how can our souls or whatever you want to assign to our consciousness?

 

[Panacea]

And I've always, frankly because I don't believe in it, wondered where people got this idea...like I said it seems like an exaggerated instinct to live as long as possible, and a fear of non-existence, but it's such an unsupportable concept.

 

[Minor Axis]

What are your thoughts?

Do humans exist in some form before and/or after life?
Where?
How?

It would be nice, but I don't know. Events fell together to create our consciousness. If there is all eternity to work with and it happened once, why not a repeat? :nanajig:

 

[Panacea]

It would be nice, but I don't know. Events fell together to create our consciousness. If there is all eternity to work with and it happened once, why not a repeat? :nanajig:

So you feel eternity might be randomly ending up with consciousness again, is that what you mean?
That's a question too...are we to assume, then, time and space are eternal, as Tim said?

 

[Johnfromokc]

I have no clue - just presently enjoying the journey.

 

[Codrus]

I personally do not believe in the concept of eternity.

Time and space are not eternal so how can our souls or whatever you want to assign to our consciousness?

i agree with tim...(sure to warp time and space somewhere)

even though space is vast..it is limited but expanding.

there is nothing that has always been going/running etc, and everything that is started...eventually stops

 

[Minor Axis]

So you feel eternity might be randomly ending up with consciousness again, is that what you mean?
That's a question too...are we to assume, then, time and space are eternal, as Tim said?

I'm not an expert on the big bang, but I believe the understanding is that time and pretty much everything in our universe started with the big bang. We are limited to what can be perceived. When it comes to concepts like parallel dimensions and universes, there could be several version of you and me floating around somewhere. It's a pretty weighty question, some might even call it mind blowing. When it comes to Atheists, they are grounded in this world, what they can touch and percieve, and to them,you are just you. And in the Atheist view, when you die you are obliterated as an entity and cease to exist.

However if you think we only know a fraction of all there is to know, then why not, there *could* be something on an astral/spiritual plane, and you might *just* be bigger than you think. Your body could just be an outlet for something more expansive than the physical body. Ok, now it's time for Tim to go berseker on my head. However, the Atheists could also be right. When you die, finito. However, if I think about possibilities, I prefer the former to the latter.

 

[Johnfromokc]

I personally do not believe in the concept of eternity.

Time and space are not eternal so how can our souls or whatever you want to assign to our consciousness?

Has anyone visited the end of space and verified this?

 

[Panacea]

I'm not an expert on the big bang, but I believe the understanding is that time and pretty much everything in our universe started with the big bang. We are limited to what can be perceived. When it comes to concepts like parallel dimensions and universes, there could be several version of you and me floating around somewhere. It's a pretty weighty question, some might even call it mind blowing. When it comes to Atheists, they are grounded in this world, what they can touch and percieve, and to them,you are just you. And in the Atheist view, when you die you are obliterated as an entity and cease to exist.

However if you think we only know a fraction of all there is to know, then why not, there *could* be something on an astral/spiritual plane, and you might *just* be bigger than you think. Your body could just be an outlet for something more expansive than the physical body. Ok, now it's time for Tim to go berseker on my head. However, the Atheists could also be right. When you die, finito. However, if I think about possibilities, I prefer the former to the latter.

Finito doesn't bother me; frankly, I'd prefer it to living human life again. Now if there's some mystical paradise to go to for eternity, I might be more game.

 

[alice in chains]

i dont think humanity is intelligent enough at the time to know about the origins of existence or if the concept of infinity is really feasible.

one thing is for sure; the answer is not in a far away place, it is right here in our minds waiting to be revealed and it is probably a very simple reality.

 

[Tim]

I'm not an expert on the big bang, but I believe the understanding is that time and pretty much everything in our universe started with the big bang. We are limited to what can be perceived. When it comes to concepts like parallel dimensions and universes, there could be several version of you and me floating around somewhere. It's a pretty weighty question, some might even call it mind blowing. When it comes to Atheists, they are grounded in this world, what they can touch and percieve, and to them,you are just you. And in the Atheist view, when you die you are obliterated as an entity and cease to exist.

However if you think we only know a fraction of all there is to know, then why not, there *could* be something on an astral/spiritual plane, and you might *just* be bigger than you think. Your body could just be an outlet for something more expansive than the physical body. Ok, now it's time for Tim to go berseker on my head. However, the Atheists could also be right. When you die, finito. However, if I think about possibilities, I prefer the former to the latter.

You really don't understand my view on this do you?

Do I believe in the big bang? No. But I do believe it's one of the best explanations of the creation of the universe. I also believe that membranes are another possibility. I don't only believe in what I can touch or perceive... not even close. But on the same token, that doesn't mean that I will read a story and just believe in it. Why is it so hard for you to understand that I don't believe in the bible or the god in it just as I don't believe in the greek gods, narnia, fire breathing dragons, fairies, the force, or any of the other thousands of stories throughout time?
I do not believe that when we die there is nothing more, but I do believe it is the most likely outcome.

My mind isn't closed to anything... but I will lean towards reality.

Has anyone visited the end of space and verified this?

Nope, but the size and shape of the universe is thought to be known with almost certainty... Nobody knows for sure, but my money is with the experts.


Think about this for a minute... Long before we were even close to having the technology to physically measure the speed of light, because we didn't have the instruments and accuracy needed. The speed of light was determined through nothing more than mathematics. The speed of light was so perfectly calculated through math alone, that when we were able to physically measure it, we only needed to tweak the number by thousands of a percent...

I don't know about you, but that blows my mind. That with pen and paper, man is capable of determining the speed of light.

 

[doombug]

Good thread Panacea. Interesting perspectives by all.

I think the idea of eternity would depend on whether or not time is a property of our universe and began with our universe( if you believe in the BB theory). There are 2 questions I can think of regarding this:

1) If time has a beginning does this prove there is such a thing as eternity?
2) If the universe is expanding and will eventually be destroyed will time cease to exist when this happens and perhaps be proof of eternity?

I also think as far as we people go there is the question of a higher consciousness like our soul? spirit? I think Sigmund Freud considered the "unconscious mind" to be the human soul. If it is believed that this part of a human's existence continues when a person dies it is possibly eternal or does it eventually die as well?

Any thoughts on these ideas?

 

[Joe the meek]

You really don't understand my view on this do you?

Do I believe in the big bang? No. But I do believe it's one of the best explanations of the creation of the universe. I also believe that membranes are another possibility. I don't only believe in what I can touch or perceive... not even close. But on the same token, that doesn't mean that I will read a story and just believe in it. Why is it so hard for you to understand that I don't believe in the bible or the god in it just as I don't believe in the greek gods, narnia, fire breathing dragons, fairies, the force, or any of the other thousands of stories throughout time?
I do not believe that when we die there is nothing more, but I do believe it is the most likely outcome.

My mind isn't closed to anything... but I will lean towards reality.



Nope, but the size and shape of the universe is thought to be known with almost certainty... Nobody knows for sure, but my money is with the experts.


Think about this for a minute... Long before we were even close to having the technology to physically measure the speed of light, because we didn't have the instruments and accuracy needed. The speed of light was determined through nothing more than mathematics. The speed of light was so perfectly calculated through math alone, that when we were able to physically measure it, we only needed to tweak the number by thousands of a percent...

I don't know about you, but that blows my mind. That with pen and paper, man is capable of determining the speed of light.

And the kicker is, given another 100 years, some of the lines on thinking on the universe per science may change yet again. NO ONE ever thought there would be a time where scientific evidence would contradict some of Einstein's thinking.

I'm with John on this one trying to enjoy the journey. That said, if you die and no one misses you or is sad to see you leave this life, personally I don't think it was a life worth living.

 

[redliner]

When your dead your 6ft under the ground. Then that is it. There is no god. No meeting up with friend blah blah blah. What makes humans any different then a ladybug ?

 

[JuggsBunny]

There is a certain amount of narcissism in human beings - we want to believe that there is something bigger, there is a meaning to life, there is something ongoing for our souls. We are finite beings and don't WANT to be.

Personally, I'm enjoying the ride and when it ends, there's nothing more than a dirt nap. Oh, the concept of reincarnation is always intriguing to me - the "recycling" of souls... and I always think about nasty people coming back as a dung fly and having to work their way back up from the shit heap.

If there is an eternity or "heaven" and I actually get in??? Score. But otherwise??? I think the end is the end is the end.

 

[Johnfromokc]

My mind isn't closed to anything... but I will lean towards reality.

"Reality" as far as our existence is in a constant state of change. Who knows what we will eventually learn?

Nope, but the size and shape of the universe is thought to be known with almost certainty... Nobody knows for sure, but my money is with the experts.

I've always heard the universe is thought to be endless. I had no idea anyone had calculated its size. Do you mean the size of our galaxy is thought to be known? "The Universe", as it is commonly defined, is all existing matter and space considered as a whole; the cosmos. How could there be and end to space?

Think about this for a minute... Long before we were even close to having the technology to physically measure the speed of light, because we didn't have the instruments and accuracy needed. The speed of light was determined through nothing more than mathematics. The speed of light was so perfectly calculated through math alone, that when we were able to physically measure it, we only needed to tweak the number by thousands of a percent...

I don't know about you, but that blows my mind. That with pen and paper, man is capable of determining the speed of light.

We know that mathematics is not finite. Numbers are infinte - you can never count to the end of numbers - there's always another number after the last. So based on the theory of mathematically calculating the size of the universe, it seems logical our universe could indeed be infinite with no beginning or end. Now that thought does blow my mind. :willy_nilly:

 

[JuggsBunny]

This is too deep for my hungover self.

 

[Minor Axis]

Finito doesn't bother me; frankly, I'd prefer it to living human life again. Now if there's some mystical paradise to go to for eternity, I might be more game.

I prefer the better ending too. This does not mean I believe one way or the other.

i dont think humanity is intelligent enough at the time to know about the origins of existence or if the concept of infinity is really feasible.

one thing is for sure; the answer is not in a far away place, it is right here in our minds waiting to be revealed and it is probably a very simple reality.

I don't know about that unless you are saying it is something our minds through exploration and advances in knowledge will discover. If it is something that is supposed to occur after death and there is a continuation of consciousness, it's a 50-50 shot whether we get any real answers to not.

You really don't understand my view on this do you?

Do I believe in the big bang? No. But I do believe it's one of the best explanations of the creation of the universe. I also believe that membranes are another possibility. I don't only believe in what I can touch or perceive... not even close. But on the same token, that doesn't mean that I will read a story and just believe in it. Why is it so hard for you to understand that I don't believe in the bible or the god in it just as I don't believe in the greek gods, narnia, fire breathing dragons, fairies, the force, or any of the other thousands of stories throughout time?

Yes, I do understand that. However, you've consistently had issues with my non-commital, what-if speculations as if things like spirituality, because there is no evidence are to be discounted.

I do not believe that when we die there is nothing more, but I do believe it is the most likely outcome.

Well that's good to know. In the past you've been more adamant about believing death is the end no question.

My mind isn't closed to anything... but I will lean towards reality.

But you usually talk like your mind *is* all made up. Then understand I don't *believe* in Heaven and a supreme being, in that I have not reached a level where I believe, but I like considering it. In fact I am really suspicious of the God of the Bible. The Bible and the God in it is a flawed. Can't be "supreme" if you are flawed. I lump the Quran in there too, although I know much less about it. I'm open to the possibility of an intelligent power that resides over us, I hope for continuation of consciousness, but I see no evidence for it so call me silly if you want.

Good thread Panacea. Interesting perspectives by all.

I think the idea of eternity would depend on whether or not time is a property of our universe and began with our universe( if you believe in the BB theory). There are 2 questions I can think of regarding this:

1) If time has a beginning does this prove there is such a thing as eternity?
2) If the universe is expanding and will eventually be destroyed will time cease to exist when this happens and perhaps be proof of eternity?

I also think as far as we people go there is the question of a higher consciousness like our soul? spirit? I think Sigmund Freud considered the "unconscious mind" to be the human soul. If it is believed that this part of a human's existence continues when a person dies it is possibly eternal or does it eventually die as well?

Any thoughts on these ideas?

There is lots of speculation on these issues, but no answers as far as I've heard...

When your dead your 6ft under the ground. Then that is it. There is no god. No meeting up with friend blah blah blah. What makes humans any different then a ladybug ?

How do you know? Why would humans have a soul, but ladybugs not have one?

There is a certain amount of narcissism in human beings - we want to believe that there is something bigger, there is a meaning to life, there is something ongoing for our souls. We are finite beings and don't WANT to be.

Personally, I'm enjoying the ride and when it ends, there's nothing more than a dirt nap. Oh, the concept of reincarnation is always intriguing to me - the "recycling" of souls... and I always think about nasty people coming back as a dung fly and having to work their way back up from the shit heap.

If there is an eternity or "heaven" and I actually get in??? Score. But otherwise??? I think the end is the end is the end.

You Atheists.

 

[Panacea]

It's interesting, dirt nap; it assumes one wakes from it.



*zombies*
:eek