░▒&am
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good point...
:lol
:lol
Does God exist?
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I must say I was surprised by the responses on this. I've become accustomed to the idea that I'm surrounded by those who actually believe a higher deity exists, so to see the poll results as they currently stand was a bit of a shocker.
I have no belief in such. I prefer to believe in myself and know that I can do good because I have morals which I hold myself to on a daily basis, not because I am frightened that some invisible creator is going to toss me into a barbeque if I don't comply with his/her demands.
I've given my children the same choices in life. They asked to go to church so they could learn more about religion, and I happily provided them with such. It should be noted that the three younger ones believe in God, but the oldest one has more of an agnostic streak in him.
None of them believe in the tooth fairy, Easter bunny, Santa, etc., but they do believe in the people behind the masks...their parents. So while they do believe in God, they believe more in the people who raise them, and that what we say/do should be taken more seriously than what some old texts express.
My youngest is always asking me why it is I don't believe. I give her a simple answer that I am more science-minded and like to have proof of existence, rather than blindly believing what the masses of society would like for me to believe. Oddly enough, she understands, but she's 8 and like to annoy me by repeating questions until she finds another question to ask. Lately it's been the question of whether or not we can dream after our deaths...but that's an entirely different topic of conversation.
My favorite thought on all of this comes from the movie Contact where MM's character asks JF's character if she believes in God, and the short answer was that she wants proof...and then he comes back with, "Did you love your dad?" "Yes." "Prove it." Had she been smart, she could have said let's go to a lab, and you can see how my vital signs show that I have strong feelings for him, and you'll have your proof.
It's a debate as old as time, and it's one that will continue throughout the existence of humankind. The fact that it is being handled in a civil manner, rather than retreating into childish bickering shows that we still have things to learn from one another, and that's more comforting than any deity in my eyes.
I have no belief in such. I prefer to believe in myself and know that I can do good because I have morals which I hold myself to on a daily basis, not because I am frightened that some invisible creator is going to toss me into a barbeque if I don't comply with his/her demands.
I've given my children the same choices in life. They asked to go to church so they could learn more about religion, and I happily provided them with such. It should be noted that the three younger ones believe in God, but the oldest one has more of an agnostic streak in him.
None of them believe in the tooth fairy, Easter bunny, Santa, etc., but they do believe in the people behind the masks...their parents. So while they do believe in God, they believe more in the people who raise them, and that what we say/do should be taken more seriously than what some old texts express.
My youngest is always asking me why it is I don't believe. I give her a simple answer that I am more science-minded and like to have proof of existence, rather than blindly believing what the masses of society would like for me to believe. Oddly enough, she understands, but she's 8 and like to annoy me by repeating questions until she finds another question to ask. Lately it's been the question of whether or not we can dream after our deaths...but that's an entirely different topic of conversation.
My favorite thought on all of this comes from the movie Contact where MM's character asks JF's character if she believes in God, and the short answer was that she wants proof...and then he comes back with, "Did you love your dad?" "Yes." "Prove it." Had she been smart, she could have said let's go to a lab, and you can see how my vital signs show that I have strong feelings for him, and you'll have your proof.
It's a debate as old as time, and it's one that will continue throughout the existence of humankind. The fact that it is being handled in a civil manner, rather than retreating into childish bickering shows that we still have things to learn from one another, and that's more comforting than any deity in my eyes.
Sim, I would say that I put most of my faith in myself and in science, but I do believe in a higher power - not so much religion. But I have a question for you. You say you must have something proved to you in order for you to believe it, and you used the example of the woman showing she loved her father by hooking herself up to a machine. This all revolves around scientific theories. Do you put faith in science that is only theorized?
Theories are explanations of observations (or of laws). The fact that we have a pretty good understanding of how stars explode doesn't necessarily mean we could predict the next supernova.
The same goes for the theory we all know about, evolution. The fact that we have a good understanding of how things evolved, doesn't mean that is how it happend. Some people may argue that they can theorize that there is a highpower, that they "saw the light" or experienced a miricle.
I guess non-believers will either be really suprised in the end, or we all will die and that is that. All I know is that I am living for now, because no one can be certain of what will come in the end.
Theories are explanations of observations (or of laws). The fact that we have a pretty good understanding of how stars explode doesn't necessarily mean we could predict the next supernova.
The same goes for the theory we all know about, evolution. The fact that we have a good understanding of how things evolved, doesn't mean that is how it happend. Some people may argue that they can theorize that there is a highpower, that they "saw the light" or experienced a miricle.
I guess non-believers will either be really suprised in the end, or we all will die and that is that. All I know is that I am living for now, because no one can be certain of what will come in the end.
A miracle? Anything that you don't have an explination for... Explain with FACTS how the universe was made. You cant. I could give you a personal example of something that happened to my girfriend, but you might not precieve it as a miracle. However, she is a firm believer that God intervened.
TheOriginalJames
Well-Known Member
I'm sticking to my agnostical point of view on life.
That is all.
That is all.
TheOriginalJames
Well-Known Member
Re: RE: Does God exist?
I've been Agnostical since 97... I've only just now realized it after researching it.
Edit: And after my brother told me he's an Athiest. I suddenly realized that I'm in America and freedom of religion is one of my rights. I just won't ever tell my mom about it... because frankly, I don't want to get into a discussion with her.
OUZBnd said:
I've been Agnostical since 97... I've only just now realized it after researching it.
Edit: And after my brother told me he's an Athiest. I suddenly realized that I'm in America and freedom of religion is one of my rights. I just won't ever tell my mom about it... because frankly, I don't want to get into a discussion with her.
TheOriginalJames
Well-Known Member
Yes, Kevin I'm aware of what Agnostic means. So yes, I'm uncertain of what I truley WANT to believe.
I want to believe there is a God because
1. I believe that there is some good in everybody.
2. I believe that there is a place and a purpose for everybody.
3. I believe that there is intelligent life on other planets solely because this universe is TOO large to just house us... if that can be true, then something or someone HAD to have created this.
I don't want to believe there is a God because
1. Bad things ALWAYS happen to good people - It's the ultimate punishment. Just read the story about Job in the Bible.
2. People who do bad things are usually punished by MANs laws, not Gods laws.
3. I've never connected to God the way others seem to have been able to do.
4. I've never caught a break in my life. I don't do drugs, I fly straight and narrow, and I've always tried to be honest. Yet things bite me in the ass, and I don't believe in Fate.
5. I was FORCED into church as a child. If I didn't go for a service on Sunday, I was grounded for that week. I felt that I was forced to believe in something I couldn't and really didn't want to understand. You've had that feeling before. The feeling of things being shoved down your throat with a spoon full of sugar.
6. I've been deceived before.
7. Being bad has always been more fun.
8. God loves you, but you must repent before you can reap the benefits of His love. Yet He throws all these temptations at you expecting you to lead the life He wants, even though he already knows WHAT you're going to do before you're born.
The questions and the list under not wanting to believe is far greater than the reasons for wanting to believe for me. But I won't deny the possibility of his existance.
I want to believe there is a God because
1. I believe that there is some good in everybody.
2. I believe that there is a place and a purpose for everybody.
3. I believe that there is intelligent life on other planets solely because this universe is TOO large to just house us... if that can be true, then something or someone HAD to have created this.
I don't want to believe there is a God because
1. Bad things ALWAYS happen to good people - It's the ultimate punishment. Just read the story about Job in the Bible.
2. People who do bad things are usually punished by MANs laws, not Gods laws.
3. I've never connected to God the way others seem to have been able to do.
4. I've never caught a break in my life. I don't do drugs, I fly straight and narrow, and I've always tried to be honest. Yet things bite me in the ass, and I don't believe in Fate.
5. I was FORCED into church as a child. If I didn't go for a service on Sunday, I was grounded for that week. I felt that I was forced to believe in something I couldn't and really didn't want to understand. You've had that feeling before. The feeling of things being shoved down your throat with a spoon full of sugar.
6. I've been deceived before.
7. Being bad has always been more fun.
8. God loves you, but you must repent before you can reap the benefits of His love. Yet He throws all these temptations at you expecting you to lead the life He wants, even though he already knows WHAT you're going to do before you're born.
The questions and the list under not wanting to believe is far greater than the reasons for wanting to believe for me. But I won't deny the possibility of his existance.
Dodge_Sniper
Active Member
Re: RE: Does God exist?
:withstupid I say this, the matter that made the big bang, it wasn't just floating around all the time now was it? Maybe God created it, and BOOM!!! Me on the other hand, If I were God, the big bang would have been me lighting a firecracker :rofl
AtlanticBlue99 said:
:withstupid I say this, the matter that made the big bang, it wasn't just floating around all the time now was it? Maybe God created it, and BOOM!!! Me on the other hand, If I were God, the big bang would have been me lighting a firecracker :rofl
Re: RE: Does God exist?
Theories are all we have for events that are not recorded by proper observation.. you cannot prove evolution beyond the point of speculation just as you cannot prove the existance of God. It all comes down to the facts as they present themselves. You have to take into account all the information gathered and theorize, or fill in the blanks for the rest.
Evolution can not be challenged, it is fact, it is happening all around us all the time. But to say that all life came from primortial ooze may be the stretch. I don't know for certain that we slimed our way out of the ocean, but I do know that life around us continues to evolve, change and adapt. This is why it isn't a stretch for me to believe in evolution and not creation.
Because we cannot understand something, explain it or put it into words, it does not make it a miracle. It's all a matter of percentages and statistics. You can line up 1 million people and shoot them one at a time and because somewhere down the line a perfectly good bullet refuses to fire and spares that life, it does not mean we just wittnessed a miracle. It was only a matter of percentage and statistics that spared him.
I am a nonbeliever because of a lack of proof... maybe not so much proof, but more of a lack of facts leading up to a belief in God. I would welcome some sort of evidence pro or con into the existance of a higher being.
OUZBnd said:
Theories are all we have for events that are not recorded by proper observation.. you cannot prove evolution beyond the point of speculation just as you cannot prove the existance of God. It all comes down to the facts as they present themselves. You have to take into account all the information gathered and theorize, or fill in the blanks for the rest.
Evolution can not be challenged, it is fact, it is happening all around us all the time. But to say that all life came from primortial ooze may be the stretch. I don't know for certain that we slimed our way out of the ocean, but I do know that life around us continues to evolve, change and adapt. This is why it isn't a stretch for me to believe in evolution and not creation.
Because we cannot understand something, explain it or put it into words, it does not make it a miracle. It's all a matter of percentages and statistics. You can line up 1 million people and shoot them one at a time and because somewhere down the line a perfectly good bullet refuses to fire and spares that life, it does not mean we just wittnessed a miracle. It was only a matter of percentage and statistics that spared him.
I am a nonbeliever because of a lack of proof... maybe not so much proof, but more of a lack of facts leading up to a belief in God. I would welcome some sort of evidence pro or con into the existance of a higher being.
I understand that evolution is a fact. The theory of how humans became what we are today, however, is not. I put my faith into science. But I can not disregard the fact that their could be a God. Just as scientist countinue to try and find life on other planets, certain people will always try to prove their is a God. Just because we can not prove either does not mean that it isn't so.
Re: RE: Does God exist?
Take notice, Kevin, that I never stated I believe science to be exact. Science is nothing more than a study of itself. I often debate people who put all of their faith in science and numbers, questioning whether one plus one really equals two, or if it is three. This is why I stated I have faith in myself. My explanation to Darian is just that I am more inclined to be science-minded...not that I follow science blindly because it has a more probable truth.
As for the machines recording biorhythms, they are as correct as we have learned as of this moment in time. Whether or not they are correct in the broader sense of the universes is of no consequence. If your heart rate accelerates, you feel it doing such. Electrical impulses are a little difficult to ignore, even if the reasons behind them are wrong because a minute detail was off somewhere in someone's equation.
I have my own theories about the light at the end of the tunnel...but this night isn't the night for me to get into such deep discussions. I'm rather exhausted, and feel as though my posts up until this point probably aren't something comprehendible.
If I could come back after my time is up, I would tell you what there is at the end of my journey. I, too, am living my life the way I choose at this point, because unfortunately, I have a shortened timeline and have an approximate date of expiration. I am not one to throw a tantrum should I be wrong. Should something arise proving all I believed was wrong, then so be it. No skin off my back.
Take notice, Kevin, that I never stated I believe science to be exact. Science is nothing more than a study of itself. I often debate people who put all of their faith in science and numbers, questioning whether one plus one really equals two, or if it is three. This is why I stated I have faith in myself. My explanation to Darian is just that I am more inclined to be science-minded...not that I follow science blindly because it has a more probable truth.
As for the machines recording biorhythms, they are as correct as we have learned as of this moment in time. Whether or not they are correct in the broader sense of the universes is of no consequence. If your heart rate accelerates, you feel it doing such. Electrical impulses are a little difficult to ignore, even if the reasons behind them are wrong because a minute detail was off somewhere in someone's equation.
OUZBnd said:
I have my own theories about the light at the end of the tunnel...but this night isn't the night for me to get into such deep discussions. I'm rather exhausted, and feel as though my posts up until this point probably aren't something comprehendible.
If I could come back after my time is up, I would tell you what there is at the end of my journey. I, too, am living my life the way I choose at this point, because unfortunately, I have a shortened timeline and have an approximate date of expiration. I am not one to throw a tantrum should I be wrong. Should something arise proving all I believed was wrong, then so be it. No skin off my back.
Re: RE: Does God exist?
I don't explain things which have no explanation. If I don't understand it, I simply state that I do not know the answer, and then set off to attempt to learn something on it so that I might better understand that which it is.
I don't, however, believe that any event is divine intervention or a miracle. Many things can be explaned if left to enough time, rather than demanding a reason right away. We've become too accustomed to obtaining what we want right then and there, and have made ourselves more impatient in the process, labeling the first reason as correct, rather than looking into it and finding the facts behind it.
...and so goes the circle of life...
I don't explain things which have no explanation. If I don't understand it, I simply state that I do not know the answer, and then set off to attempt to learn something on it so that I might better understand that which it is.
I don't, however, believe that any event is divine intervention or a miracle. Many things can be explaned if left to enough time, rather than demanding a reason right away. We've become too accustomed to obtaining what we want right then and there, and have made ourselves more impatient in the process, labeling the first reason as correct, rather than looking into it and finding the facts behind it.
...and so goes the circle of life...
OUZBnd said:
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