Do you believe the Bible to be fully true?

[All Else Failed]

Um, no. We are convicted of sin because we are sinful. If there was someone who was perfect, they wouldn't be condemned. But so far, no one besides Jesus has been perfect. So we are all sinful by our own doing, not because of Adam and Eve. We all still have a choice, and we have all chosen to be sinful at one point or another in our lives.

You're missing my point.

We have original sin because god chose it to be that way. He's punishing you for something you didn't even do. We may sin outside of that, but the entire human race is condemned with an irremovable sin, which is original sin.

 

[The Joker]

You're missing my point.

We have original sin because god chose it to be that way. He's punishing you for something you didn't even do. We may sin outside of that, but the entire human race is condemned with an irremovable sin, which is original sin.

And god chose it to be that way because of what Adam and Eve did.

HENCE we are being punished for something Adam and Eve did.

 

[SgtSpike]

No, both of you are still completely missing the point. Yes, Adam and Eve brought sin into the world, but that is all they did. We are still responsible for our own actions. Just because someone enabled a car to go beyond the speed limit doesn't mean we are all convicted of speeding, does it? We have to actually do it before we are ticketed! Same idea...

 

[All Else Failed]

No, both of you are still completely missing the point. Yes, Adam and Eve brought sin into the world, but that is all they did. We are still responsible for our own actions. Just because someone enabled a car to go beyond the speed limit doesn't mean we are all convicted of speeding, does it? We have to actually do it before we are ticketed! Same idea...

I'm surprised you know so little for a person that claims to be religious.


Adam and eve brought sin into the world, yes, but god also condemned every man, woman and child thereafter with ORIGINAL SIN.

 

[The Joker]

Dude, when adam and eve sinned, sin came into the world, god condemned every single person, BECAUSE of what they did.

 

[SgtSpike]

Ok, where in the Bible does it say that?

 

[The Joker]

I cant remember exactly and I havent got a bible on hand but I am pretty sure god says something along the lines of

"Let every woman, man and child be born into a sinful world, and that they will not be saved unless they accept me into their lives...."

Something like that.

 

[SgtSpike]

I cant remember exactly and I havent got a bible on hand but I am pretty sure god says something along the lines of

"Let every woman, man and child be born into a sinful world, and that they will not be saved unless they accept me into their lives...."

Something like that.

Ok, but that's only because He knew everyone would sin at some point in their life. I still say though, it is our own sin that condemns us, and not the sin of Adam and Eve.

 

[The Joker]

No it's not the sin of Adam and Eve that condemned us.

This is where you missed my point.

It is the sin of Adam and Eve that ALLOWED us to be condemned by god!

 

[lumpenstein]

I have a question:

If the bible is fully true then Jesus being the sent son of god is true.

If that is true then that means the Jews are wrong.

What is there to say that the Jews are right and the fucking bible is wrong?

Now, PROVE IT!

 

[SgtSpike]

I have a question:

If the bible is fully true then Jesus being the sent son of god is true.

If that is true then that means the Jews are wrong.

What is there to say that the Jews are right and the fucking bible is wrong?

Now, PROVE IT!

I'm not sure what you mean...

 

[Minor Axis]

No, both of you are still completely missing the point. Yes, Adam and Eve brought sin into the world, but that is all they did. We are still responsible for our own actions. Just because someone enabled a car to go beyond the speed limit doesn't mean we are all convicted of speeding, does it? We have to actually do it before we are ticketed! Same idea...

If Adam and Eve had not blown it, they and their descendants would have been living the high life in the Garden of Eden. But because Eve's discretion, God throws them out, thereby depriving all of their descendants of the same existence. He is punishing the children for the actions of the parents.

 

[SgtSpike]

If Adam and Eve had not blown it, they and their descendants would have been living the high life in the Garden of Eden. But because Eve's discretion, God throws them out, thereby depriving all of their descendants of the same existence. He is punishing the children for the actions of the parents.

We all have the same choice to "eat the apple" or to not. We all, unfortunately, choose the wrong path.

I will agree with you that Adam and Eve's sin opened the door to sin easier than previously, but it's not quite as cut and dry as saying we're all sinful because Adam and Eve sinned.

 

[The Joker]

We all have the same choice to "eat the apple" or to not. We all, unfortunately, choose the wrong path.

I will agree with you that Adam and Eve's sin opened the door to sin easier than previously, but it's not quite as cut and dry as saying we're all sinful because Adam and Eve sinned.

Actually it is.

Let me spell it out for you clearly in steps.

1) Everything was absoloutley perfect.
2) The serpent convinced Adam and eve to eat the forbidden fruit.
3) BECAUSE of this, they introduced sin into the world AT THE WILL OF GOD

Quod Erat Demonstrandum

God is punishing us for something Adam and Eve did.

 

[Accountable]

God set up the laws of Nature. The actions of the parents establish the starting point of the child - such as the child of financially successful parents having a better shot at financial success than the child of paupers, or the child of drug addicts having a tougher row to hoe toward being psychologically healthy than the child of psychologically balanced parents.

Adam & Eve's screwup took away all the following generations' chance of growing up in the Garden, so yes, the result is that we are all "punished" for their sin. It's only natural.

 

[dt3]

We all have the same choice to "eat the apple" or to not. We all, unfortunately, choose the wrong path.

I will agree with you that Adam and Eve's sin opened the door to sin easier than previously, but it's not quite as cut and dry as saying we're all sinful because Adam and Eve sinned.

If the only person without sin was Jesus, how can you still say we make a choice to sin? It makes no sense. If the bible is true, then it's pre-ordained that we will all sin.

 

[SgtSpike]

If the only person without sin was Jesus, how can you still say we make a choice to sin? It makes no sense. If the bible is true, then it's pre-ordained that we will all sin.

Pre-ordination is a whole different matter.

Anyway, it's clear that myself and all of you have different opinions, and I have nothing more to add to my side of the argument. I still say that it is by our choice to sin, and thus be condemned, but Adam and Eve's sin certainly made it easier to sin.

 

[dt3]

Pre-ordination is a whole different matter.

Anyway, it's clear that myself and all of you have different opinions, and I have nothing more to add to my side of the argument. I still say that it is by our choice to sin, and thus be condemned, but Adam and Eve's sin certainly made it easier to sin.

The Bible says:

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God

So, if you were to lead a sinless life it would prove the Bible to be wrong. Therefore, it must be pre-ordained that we all sin, lest the holy book be false.

 

[Accountable]

The Bible says:



So, if you were to lead a sinless life it would prove the Bible to be wrong. Therefore, it must be pre-ordained that we all sin, lest the holy book be false.

Pre-ordained? So you don't believe in free will?

BTW, it says have sinned, not will sin.

 

[dt3]

Pre-ordained? So you don't believe in free will?

I'm arguing hypothetically, since I don't believe in the bible. Of course I believe in free will, because I don't believe in some almighty being in the sky.

BTW, it says have sinned, not will sin.

I don't think the tense of the verb matters. It says all have sinned. Therefore, for one person to lead a sinless life would cast the entire bible into doubt.