DID WE EVOLVE FROM MONKEYS

[robedwards99]

Re: RE: DID WE EVOLVE FROM MONKEYS

Man Rob, I've been waiting all night to read what you post and this is all I get?
I can definitley agree with some of the things that have been said here. There is controversy on both sides. The Creationists can say "where's the proof?" and the Evolutionists can ask the same question. The problem is this: Unless you come face-to-face with God then you only have your faith. And even if you were to see God in person, chances are not many people would believe you anyway.
And on the Evolutionists side: Everything is theory. The Theory of Evolution, the Big Bang Theory. A theory is quite simply nothing more than an educated guess with lots of big words and scientific mumbo jumbo. Until it becomes the Big Bang Law, or the Law of Evolution, I'll stick to my beliefs.
Now come on Rob, stop playing with your imaginary friend and give us a debate! Haha!

Ha! Sorry you had to wait so long but I had to go home and sleep and stuff! I've come back into work this morning and kind of lost my track if you know what I mean!

There isn't much else to debate in my personal view on this subject as we both have differing beliefs and both are strong enough to not back down.

I don't believe in God or a higher being.

You don't believe that we could of evolved from earlier species even though there is fossil evidence to more or less prove it!

To me there is no God. I believe in me.

 

[White2000GT]

Re: RE: DID WE EVOLVE FROM MONKEYS

Man Rob, I've been waiting all night to read what you post and this is all I get?
I can definitley agree with some of the things that have been said here. There is controversy on both sides. The Creationists can say "where's the proof?" and the Evolutionists can ask the same question. The problem is this: Unless you come face-to-face with God then you only have your faith. And even if you were to see God in person, chances are not many people would believe you anyway.
And on the Evolutionists side: Everything is theory. The Theory of Evolution, the Big Bang Theory. A theory is quite simply nothing more than an educated guess with lots of big words and scientific mumbo jumbo. Until it becomes the Big Bang Law, or the Law of Evolution, I'll stick to my beliefs.
Now come on Rob, stop playing with your imaginary friend and give us a debate! Haha!

Ha! Sorry you had to wait so long but I had to go home and sleep and stuff! I've come back into work this morning and kind of lost my track if you know what I mean!

There isn't much else to debate in my personal view on this subject as we both have differing beliefs and both are strong enough to not back down.

I don't believe in God or a higher being.

You don't believe that we could of evolved from earlier species even though there is fossil evidence to more or less prove it!

To me there is no God. I believe in me.

That is true! You're alright by me Rob. I'd drink a pint or two with you any day!

 

[sharpies]

I know that you guys think that this is over, but can I just say that I am amazed that anyone living today thinks that man evolved from apes, or monkeys or whatever.

We may share some common ancestors but that was over 5 million years ago. Chimps & humans have very similar DNA but not the same.

The reason mankind looks so much different is because the jungles disappeared in the areas that early man (please note that these are not men but prehuman) lived & so he was forced onto the ground. In doing this his development took a major turn from the rest of the primate family, many who stayed in trees because the areas that they lived were still jungle. These primates evolved into todays monkey family.

This information is freely available on many websites or encyclopaedia - it's not new & while still theoretical is based on studies done over the past hundred years or more with much empirical data & specimens to back it up.

There is no theory of God because if you believe in Him he exists, this is called faith, which means that by default if you don't believe in him - then he doesn't exist.



Allan
Allan

 

[robedwards99]

Re: RE: DID WE EVOLVE FROM MONKEYS

I know that you guys think that this is over, but can I just say that I am amazed that anyone living today thinks that man evolved from apes, or monkeys or whatever.

We may share some common ancestors but that was over 5 million years ago. Chimps & humans have very similar DNA but not the same.

I agree with this 100% .

You're basically saying we're more closely related to primates that imaginary friends

 

[Haus]

i never thought we were evolved from monkeys. even tho it would make sense. i dont really know how or where we were envolved from. i would like to think adam and eve but im not so sure. just so many races out there. who knows for sure :dunno

 

[White2000GT]

Re: RE: DID WE EVOLVE FROM MONKEYS

There is no theory of God because if you believe in Him he exists, this is called faith, which means that by default if you don't believe in him - then he doesn't exist.



Allan
Allan

Kinda like if a tree falls in the woods and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound? Of course it does. Sound can't pick and choose when it wants to be heard. The same is true in this situation. Just because someone doesn't believe in God doesn't mean God doesn't exist. I do see the point you are trying to make though. I guess I can put it this way... I can't see oxygen. I don't know that oxygen really exists. But I have been told that it does. Still, I have never seen it, so if one day I decide to stop believing that oxygen exists then does that mean that it won't exist anymore?
Faith is a powerful idea based on one's belief in something they don't know for a fact to exist. Prime example: These Muslim extremists that are being told by their leaders that if they "kill the infidels" they will receive, what is it, like 42 virgins or something when they die? They have faith that they will receive these virgins, so they blow themselves up. Will they get the virgins? Who knows, but try to tell one of them that it is all a lie and they will likely cut your head off.
Obviously people have stronger beliefs about God than they do about evolution. How many wars were started because of religious differences? And how many were started because of monkeys?

I'm hungry. Time for lunch!

 

[robedwards99]

Re: RE: DID WE EVOLVE FROM MONKEYS

i never thought we were evolved from monkeys. even tho it would make sense. i dont really know how or where we were envolved from. i would like to think adam and eve but im not so sure. just so many races out there. who knows for sure :dunno

But where did Adam & Eve come from??

 

[sharpies]

I can test for oxygen, I can see it's effects with fire or under pressure. I can freeze it & study it, I can stand in a room & pump it all out, although I would not continue to stand for long.

There are no tests for God, no evidence, no proof, just a whole lot of writing (& if you believe that this is proof then maybe Harry Potter also exists) & people who believe. There are still people that believe the earth is flat - doesn't make it so.

Allan

 

[Haus]

Re: RE: DID WE EVOLVE FROM MONKEYS

i never thought we were evolved from monkeys. even tho it would make sense. i dont really know how or where we were envolved from. i would like to think adam and eve but im not so sure. just so many races out there. who knows for sure :dunno

But where did Adam & Eve come from??

God. lol. i have no idea. i said i would like to think that but im not so sure. meaning im not so sure it happened that way.

what do you guys think about the Big bang Theory and the primordial ooze???

 

[White2000GT]

Re: RE: DID WE EVOLVE FROM MONKEYS

I can test for oxygen, I can see it's effects with fire or under pressure. I can freeze it & study it, I can stand in a room & pump it all out, although I would not continue to stand for long.

There are no tests for God, no evidence, no proof, just a whole lot of writing (& if you believe that this is proof then maybe Harry Potter also exists) & people who believe. There are still people that believe the earth is flat - doesn't make it so.

Allan

You mean Harry Potter isn't real?
So you don't think that all that writing has anything to do with proof of God's existence? I can see if it was just one source, but there are so many doctrines that have been discovered in addition to those in the Bible that have been around for millenia. Dead Sea Scrolls for one. The so-called Gospel of Judas that was recently rediscovered. And not just the Bible. There's the Torah and the Koran as well. They all speak of God in one way or another.

 

[lemon]

Re: RE: DID WE EVOLVE FROM MONKEYS

God, with His penetrating, all seeing eyes, looks through us.

Nothing is hid from His holy eyes.

Who will ever stand before this holy God?

With our own righteousness, (that is, with our filthy rags), we never will be able to endure God's presence.

Fire will devour us, because His holiness, and our uncleanness, have nothing in common.

Sin isn't able to stand before God's pureness.

And our own righteousness is worthless, so we stand in need of another
righteousness.

We need a perfect righteousness, to stand before God.

Therefore, we need "The LORD Our Righteousness", the Messiah.

Only when we are in Him, covered with His righteousness, we will be safe.

apparently our skin is hid from his eyes....

every single one of us will stand before him.., according to what was writ in the holy text...

but i thought god can do anything, so therefore he'd be able to stand our uncleanliness......

oh, and isnt god everywhere - wouldnt we be standing in front of him anyways, and to the left, the right, behind, etc?

and if the fire will devour us, then why is it eternal damnation? if it devours us, then wouldnt the one being devoured be .. gone?

 

[sharpies]

Funny that you should mention other religions & then refer only to monotheists. What about all the other religions, many much older than christanity, that refer to more than one god. The Norse, Romans, Greeks & Egyptains all had many gods - does this mean that because there is a lot written about them & that they are all older than christianity that perhaps they are the true religions.

We haven't even mentioned the Asian religions, again all older than christianity & some of them have only one god. The Australian aboriginals have The Dreamtime, a belief system that is considered to be one of the oldest in the world, but I suppose that for you there is not enough written about their gods.

So I suppose then, maybe the questions that needs to be answered are which god made Adam & Eve & which god made the sun & which god should I believe in if I want to go to Valhalla instead of Heaven?

Allan

 

[White2000GT]

Well thanks for bringing that up. The reason why I didn't mention those other religions is because, until now, we were mainly talking about Christian beliefs of creationism versus the theory of evolution.
I have read several books where the author would propose the idea that maybe God wasn't the only god, but one of many. Even some passages in the Bible are leading in that way. I don't have mine in front of me right now, but I can look back in Genesis and quote a few verses where this implication could be made.
But then again, maybe Christianity isn't that much different than those other religions. I've also read cases where many different religions all have rather similar stories about the cataclysmic flood that destroyed the Earth in the time of Noah. They also have a story of a family that survived the flood because they were warned by God and told to build a boat.
Hell, even Muslims believe that Christ was real. They don't believe he was the son of God though, but merely a prophet of God. But they do believe that he lived and that he preached the word of God.
The way I understand it is Valhalla is Heaven. At least it is the way the Norse people believed it to be. Most all religions, even ones that worship multiple gods, believe in Heaven in one form or another. Again, it is their interpretation of what Heaven is.
I think it is plainly obvious that I am a Christian, and I will stick by my beliefs no matter what. But I am also the type that is very tolerant of other religions. I believe that everyone has the right to believe or not believe anything they want. Who am I to judge someone for that?

 

[sharpies]

Here's the rub for me. I fully respect that you have a right to believe in whatever God that you want & I don't wish to take that right away from you (obviously this means everyone) but the same respect is not shown to me.

I am an atheist, I choose not to believe in a God, but I do love the arguements that it allows. In some societies today I could be killed for my beliefs, in others I would be shunned - even in America, can you imagine what would happen to a President that professed to not believe in God. Well I don't think you have to because there will not be one.

Christians & other religious orders want to run the countries that they live in with little or no regard for people that don't share their beliefs. This freaks me out - what if the world was run by Muslims or Christians - both have shown historically & into modern times that they have little or no tolerance for non believers.

The world would be a very ugly place, at least from my point of view.

Allan

 

[White2000GT]

Re: RE: DID WE EVOLVE FROM MONKEYS

Here's the rub for me. I fully respect that you have a right to believe in whatever God that you want & I don't wish to take that right away from you (obviously this means everyone) but the same respect is not shown to me.

I am an atheist, I choose not to believe in a God, but I do love the arguements that it allows. In some societies today I could be killed for my beliefs, in others I would be shunned - even in America, can you imagine what would happen to a President that professed to not believe in God. Well I don't think you have to because there will not be one.

Christians & other religious orders want to run the countries that they live in with little or no regard for people that don't share their beliefs. This freaks me out - what if the world was run by Muslims or Christians - both have shown historically & into modern times that they have little or no tolerance for non believers.

The world would be a very ugly place, at least from my point of view.

Allan

I see your point, and believe me when I say I personally would never shun you or disrespect you for your views. I was raised to believe that we all have the right to worship the way we feel appropriate. And by that same respect, if we choose not to believe then we have that right as well and shouldn't be persecuted because of that.
I also agree with you that organized religions have had some bad moments in the past and even in modern times. And that is the exact reason why we Americans have a seperation of Church and State; To keep the big organized religions from having any influence on the laws that are made to govern us. That's the way it should work anyway.

 

[sharpies]

Just quickly Haus I don't know how the universe started (although I do not believe it was created) & I generally think that the Big Bang theory is pretty good, but I still have a feeling that there is more to it. Maybe Quantum Mechanics will come up with the answer.

Although, trying to keep up with Quantum Mechanics at the moment is a nightmare & way, way over my head (multi dimensional shenanigans & curtains that occaisionally touch - ouch) but I don't think that this is something we will ever fully understand.

As for life on Earth, it's always intrigued me that people think that DNA or life, itself, was dropped off by a passing asteroid/comet. Doesn't this then mean that life still began somewhere - why couldn't it have begun here? Sometimes I don't understand why people look for the complex solutions when time & again it has been shown that the easiest path is usually the one taken.

Another thing that I find amazing is that there are only 4 basic DNA building blocks & that all life on Earth is made up of a combination of these little fellers. Plants & animals share some DNA strands - it shows that all life on Earth is related, that it all stems from the same early creatures. If you want to call the beginnings primordial ooze, then that's Ok, because again no one is really quite sure how it all began (lots of theories but no certainties).

 

[!]

Re: RE: DID WE EVOLVE FROM MONKEYS

Isa. 64:6. God, with His penetrating, all seeing eyes, looks through us. Nothing is hid from His holy eyes. Who will ever stand
before this holy God? With our own righteousness, (that is, with our
filthy rags), we never will be able to endure God's presence. Fire
will devour us, because His holiness, and our uncleanness, have
nothing in common. Sin isn't able to stand before God's pureness. And
our own righteousness is worthless, so we stand in need of another
righteousness. We need a perfect righteousness, to stand before God.
Therefore, we need "The LORD Our Righteousness", the Messiah. Only
when we are in Him, covered with His righteousness, we will be safe.

White, I will also say I am no biblical scholar either, but I try to research the other side of the fence before debating or choosing a path. The personal interpretation I gather and that has been previously explained to me by member's of a christian congragation is that basically we are all sinners, we are born sinners, we will never be able to be in the actual presence of god for this, the part about "The LORD Our Righteousness, the Messiah" is refering to "Jesus", if you are Christian and beleive the Messiah has already come. Through the Father, Son and the Holy Ghost can we be present before god, being shielded by the messiah's righteousness will protect the sinner.

Speaking of Quantum Mechanics, which is something I am also interested in, it may behoove to research "String Theories", quite an interesting subjet matter!

 

[AtlanticBlue99]

Re: RE: DID WE EVOLVE FROM MONKEYS

Opinions founded without facts are ignorant

Then give me some religious facts.

Each of the six days in Schroeder's Genesis actually takes a different length of earth time. The duration D, in earth days, of each cosmic day t is calculated from the formula D = (Ao/L)exp(-Lt), where Ao = 4x1012 (the ratio of the frequencies of the cosmic microwave background at quark confinement compared to now) and L = 0.693 (natural log of 2). More simply, cosmic day one is 8 billion earth years long and you divide by two to get the duration of each succeeding cosmic day.

Cosmic day one starts 15.75 billion earth years ago and covers the creation of the universe, the "breaking free" of light as electrons bind to atomic nuclei, and the beginning of galaxy formation. This is described in Gen. 1:1-5 as the creation followed by light separating from the darkness.

Cosmic day two starts 7.75 billion earth years ago and lasts four billion earth years. During this period the stars and galaxies are born. This corresponds to Gen. 1:6-8, the formation of the heavenly firmament.

Cosmic day three starts 3.75 billion earth years ago. During two billion earth years, the earth cools, water appears, and the first life forms appear. In Gen. 1:9-13, vegetation first appears during the third day.

Cosmic day four starts 1.75 billion earth years ago and lasts a billion earth years. The earth's atmosphere becomes transparent and photosynthesis produces an oxygen-rich atmosphere. Schroeder says that this corresponds to Gen. 1:14-19 when "the Sun, Moon, and stars become visible in the heavens" (67).

Cosmic day five starts 750 million earth years ago and lasts 500 million earth years. During this period, the first multicellular animals appear and the oceans swarm with life. Gen. 1:20-23 says the waters bring forth swarms of living creatures and "birds fly above the earth" (94).

Cosmic day six starts 250 million years ago and ends at the time of Adam. During this period we have a massive extinction in which 90 percent of life is destroyed and then repopulated with humanoids and humans. This, Schroeder says, corresponds to what is described in Gen. 1:24-31.

Technically, Schroeder's formula gives the present as the end of the sixth day. However, it could just as well have ended a few thousand years ago and not affect the rest of the calculation where things are rounded off at hundreds of millions of years. Schroeder argues that after the six cosmic days of creation, Genesis switches its focus over to humanity and starts measuring time in human terms. The rest of the Bible concerns itself with the 6,000 earth years since Adam and Eve, estimated from the Bible in Bishop Ussher fashion.

Just a calculus-derived formula for the expansion of time itself. This time table is the root of existence of the universe as we know it. Evolution does theoretically make sense on many levels, and evolution is taught from aquatic life epxanding to amphibious creatures, then land-walkers. I am not saying I disbelieve in creationism or evolution, but both sides go hand-in-hand, and if organized religion wasn't so corrupt, more scientific progress could be made.

 

[lemon]

Re: RE: DID WE EVOLVE FROM MONKEYS

Here's the rub for me. I fully respect that you have a right to believe in whatever God that you want & I don't wish to take that right away from you (obviously this means everyone) but the same respect is not shown to me.

I am an atheist, I choose not to believe in a God, but I do love the arguements that it allows. In some societies today I could be killed for my beliefs, in others I would be shunned - even in America, can you imagine what would happen to a President that professed to not believe in God. Well I don't think you have to because there will not be one.

Christians & other religious orders want to run the countries that they live in with little or no regard for people that don't share their beliefs. This freaks me out - what if the world was run by Muslims or Christians - both have shown historically & into modern times that they have little or no tolerance for non believers.

The world would be a very ugly place, at least from my point of view.

Allan

well, i plan on running in about 20 years, so watch for the news

 

[sharpies]

I wish you all the best, just remember us little folk when you are the leader of the most powerful nation on the planet.



Allan