Conspiracy Thread..

[Francis]

No I looked at it


I'm just saying that is not a reputable "resource" at all

According to some no site is reputable.

Would you deny all that was said on the site ? It had some very valid points is all I am saying..

Do you honestly believe all site feed you 100% of the truth ?

 

[All Else Failed]

According to some no site is reputable.

Would you deny all that was said on the site ? It had some very valid points is all I am saying..

Do you honestly believe all site feed you 100% of the truth ?

Huh? There are plenty of sites that are reputable.


Yeah I'd probably say everything on that site is conjured up hogwash.

 

[KimmyCharmeleon]

http://deoxy.org/wc/warcrim2.htm#charge

It's a long read sorry.

1. The United States engaged in a pattern of conduct beginning in or before 1989 intended to lead Iraq into provocations justifying U.S. military action against Iraq and permanent U.S. military domination of the Gulf.
2. President Bush from August 2, 1990, intended and acted to prevent any interference with his plan to destroy Iraq economically and militarily.
3. President Bush ordered the destruction of facilities essential to civilian life and economic productivity throughout Iraq.
4. The United States intentionally bombed and destroyed civilian life, commercial and business districts, schools, hospitals, mosques, churches, shelters, residential areas, historical sites, private vehicles and civilian government offices.
5. The United States intentionally bombed indiscriminately throughout Iraq.
6. The United States intentionally bombed and destroyed Iraqi military personnel, used excessive force, killed soldiers seeking to surrender and in disorganized individual flight, often unarmed and far from any combat zones and randomly and wantonly killed Iraqi soldiers and destroyed materiel after the cease fire.
7. The United States used prohibited weapons capable of mass destruction and inflicting indiscriminate death and unnecessary suffering against both military and civilian targets.
8. The United States intentionally attacked installations in Iraq containing dangerous substances and forces.
9. President Bush ordered U.S. forces to invade Panama, resulting in the deaths of 1,000 to 4,000 Panamanians and the destruction of thousands of private dwellings, public buildings, and commercial structures.
10. President Bush obstructed justice and corrupted United Nations functions as a means of securing power to commit crimes against peace and war crimes.
11. President Bush usurped the Constitutional power of Congress as a means of securing power to commit crimes against peace, war crimes, and other high crimes.
12. The United States waged war on the environment.
13. President Bush encouraged and aided Shiite Muslims and Kurds to rebel against the government of Iraq causing fratricidal violence, emigration, exposure, hunger and sickness and thousands of deaths. After the rebellion failed, the U.S. invaded and occupied parts of Iraq without authority in order to increase division and hostility within Iraq.
14. President Bush intentionally deprived the Iraqi people of essential medicines, potable water, food, and other necessities.
15. The United States continued its assault on Iraq after the cease fire, invading and occupying areas at will.
16. The United States has violated and condoned violations of human rights, civil liberties and the U.S. Bill of Rights in the United States, in Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and elsewhere to achieve its purpose of military domination.
17. The United States, having destroyed Iraq's economic base, demands reparations which will permanently impoverish Iraq and threaten its people with famine and epidemic.
18. President Bush systematically manipulated, controlled, directed, misinformed and restricted press and media coverage to obtain constant support in the media for his military and political goals.
19. The United States has by force secured a permanent military presence in the Gulf, the control of its oil resources and geopolitical domination of the Arabian Peninsula and Gulf region.

All of these are in detail on the site I mentioned, but I highlighted the important numbers.
Basically it's the fact that all of this 'intentional stuff' was done. They intended to control it all.

 

[Tangerine]

Exactly which of these "War Crimes" hay anyone been found guilty of, and by what governing authority?

 

[All Else Failed]

idk all of those are just blanket statements with nothing backing them up

 

[KimmyCharmeleon]

I said below it that if you click on the link they have more added to them.

 

[KimmyCharmeleon]

Findings

The members of the International War Crimes Tribunal finds each of the named accused Guilty on the basis of the evidence against them and that each of the nineteen crimes alleged in the Initial Complaint, attached hereto, has been established to have been committed beyond a reasonable doubt.
The members believe that it is imperative if there is ever to be peace that power be accountable for its criminal acts and we condemn in the strongest possible terms those found guilty of the charges herein. We urge the Commission of Inquiry and all people to act on recommendations developed by the Commission to hold power accountable and to secure social justice on which lasting peace must be based.

http://deoxy.org/wc/warcrim3.htm#find

In plain English, all 19 charges were found to be true beyond reasonable doubt.

 

[Tangerine]

So a group of 19 people with no official authority from anyone, sat in a room and decided that the US Government was guilty of war crimes. And it was Bush I, Quayle, and Schwarzkopf who were named.

That has exactly as much credibility as if I were to post a poll on OTz and ask if a country were guilty of war crimes and 19 people voted yes. So what?

And this was 19 years ago? Wow... had a lot of teeth to it, didn't it. Funny how almost no one has ever heard of this.

 

[KimmyCharmeleon]

I'm sorry your country isn't perfect.

Edit: I realise this isn't about 9/11 but it fits in perfectly with what Cam was saying about US war crimes.

 

[KimmyCharmeleon]

I don't deny the credibility of these people...who come from a range of backgrounds...oh, and some from the US too, my-oh-my

Olga Mejia, Panama President of the National Human Rights Commission in Panama, a non-governmental body representing peasants' organizations, urban trade unions, women's groups and others.
Sheik Mohamed Rashid, Pakistan Former deputy prime minister. Long-term political prisoner during the struggle against British colonialism and activist for workers' and peasants' rights.
Dr. Haluk Gerger, Turkey Founding member of Turkish Human Rights Association and professor of political science. Dismissed from Ankara University by military government.
Susumu Ozaki, Japan Former judge and pro-labor attorney imprisoned 1934-1938 for violating Security Law under militarist government for opposing Japan's invasion of China.
Michael Ratner, USA Attorney, former director of the Center for Constitutional Rights, past president of the National Lawyers Guild.
Lord Tony Gifford, Britain Human rights lawyer practicing in England and Jamaica. Investigated human rights abuses in British-occupied Ireland.
Rene Dumont, France Argonomist, ecologist, specialist in agriculture of developing countries, author. His 45th book, This War Dishonors Us, appears in 1992.
Bassam Haddadin, Jordan Member of Parliament, Second Secretary for the Jordanian Democratic Peoples Party. Member of Parliamentary Committee on Palestine.
Dr. Sherif Hetata, Egypt Medical Doctor, author, member of the Central Committee of the Arab Progressive Unionist Party. Political prisoner 14 years in 1950s and 1960s.
Deborah Jackson, USA First vice president of the American Association of Jurists, former director of National Conference of Black Lawyers.
Opato Matarmah, Menominee Nation of North America Involved in defense of human rights of indigenous peoples since 1981. Represented the International Indian Treaty Council at the Commission of Human Rights at the U.N.
Laura Albizu, Campos Meneses, Puerto Rico Past President of the Puerto Rican Nationalist Party and current Secretary for Foreign Relations. Honorary president of Peace Council.
Aisha Nyerere, Tanzania Resident Magistrate of the High Court in Arusha, Tanzania. Researched the impact of the Gulf war on East Africa.
Peter Leibovtich, Canada President of United Steel Workers of America, USWA, Local 8782 and of the Executive Council of the Ontario Federation of Labor.
John Philpot, Quebec Attorney, member of Board of Directors of Quebec Movement for Sovereignty. Organizing Secretary for the American Association of Jurist in Canada.
John Jones, USA Community leader in the state of New Jersey. Vietnam veteran who became leader of movement against U.S. attack on Iraq.
Gloria La Riva, USA Founding member of the Farmworkers Emergency Relief Committee and Emergency Committee to Stop the U.S. War in the Middle East in San Francisco.
Key Martin, USA Member of Executive Committee of Local 3 of the Newspaper Guild in New York. Jailed in 1967 for taking message of Bertrand Russell Tribunal on Vietnam to active duty Gls.
Dr. Alfred Mechtersheimer, Germany Former member of the Bundestag from the Green Party. Former Lieutenant Colonel in the Bundeswher; current peace researcher.
Abderrazak Kilani, Tunisia Tunisian Bar Association. Former President, Association of Young Lawyers; founding member, National Committee to Lift the Embargo from Iraq.
Tan Sri Ahmad Noordin bin Zakaria, Malaysia Former Auditor General of Malaysia. Known throughout his country for battling corruption in government.
P. S. Poti, India Former Chief Justice of the Gujarat High Court. In 1989 elected president of the All-lndia Lawyers Union.

 

[Tangerine]

So who cares? By what authority were they doing this? If they had any authority, there would have been some form of punishment or retribution. Why was there none? Anyone can sit in a room and say anything they want. (At least in America, in some countries you would be executing for even discussing this) But unless you are acting in some official capacity under some recognized authority - it's just verbal masturbation.

 

[retro]

Just because they might be credible people doesn't mean that they're credible experts on the subject. Tang's comparison still stands... there are plenty of credible people on OTz, and a poll here would be worth as much as what they had to say to be honest.

I also don't get why you and Cam are accusing us all of being so pro-American government. Nobody has said that at all... only that they don't buy into a 9/11 conspiracy. Nobody has claimed that America is perfect, quite the contrary in fact.

 

[KimmyCharmeleon]

Well we do have an International Court, but it wasn't established until 2002, so tribunals were the only way of getting shit done.

 

[KimmyCharmeleon]

Yeah, well they're more credible than you and me. Do you trust a 19 year old uni student? A chef? An IT guy? Right...

 

[Tangerine]

Well we do have an International Court, but it wasn't established until 2002, so tribunals were the only way of getting shit done.

The point is... they DIDN'T get shit done.

Nothing happened to anyone, so the entire excercise was pointless.

 

[retro]

Yeah, well they're more credible than you and me. Do you trust a 19 year old uni student? A chef? An IT guy? Right...

What makes them "credible"? A college degree? Some of them have been dismissed or arrested. Regardless of what the reason is, that removes some credibility. The point is that we could be just as credible as they are for the purpose of what they were doing. There's not a whole lot of anything in their "credentials" that give them credibility for this subject. But if it would appease you, I'll add my dad into the mix... he's a highly respected physician in my area, member of the local Board for Medical Care, and has spoken to the California State legislature on a few different occasions. None of that makes him a credible expert for the purposes that these people got together for either.

 

[KimmyCharmeleon]

By all means it's good that people question authority, but you don't have to do it all the time geez.
Oh and by the way, none of it was based on opinion, if you read the preliminary notes on the site, their judgments were based on evidence and reports from other commissions. I think the references are on there too.

 

[Francis]

This is hilarious..

This is like Russia defending itself against starting a war in Afghanistan in the 1979 due to the US..

Conspiracy theory is that the US ( as per a supposedly Brzezinski news article ) under Prez Carter drew the Russian into a Vietnam style war..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_war_in_Afghanistan

 

[Azazel]

 

[KimmyCharmeleon]

So some aren't experts on the subject you say?
In there, there doctors, former judges, former vice president, human rights lawyers, magistrates of High Courts. And that's not all, look at the institutions they affiliate with. That's what gives people credibility. People who have knowledge and experience from these fields, first hand. And who are we? None of the fucking above