Conservatism = Sociopathic Behavior

[Johnfromokc]

Banned - Great post! I'm the guy who said we should look to other countries and see what is working for them and implement those ideas here. Americans have a very difficult time believeing any other country could do anything better than us. This is because since we were toddlers, we have been told "America #1!!" and we are the reason Europe in not Nazi's today and therefore all other countries should kneel and kiss our American asses.

We scream "Socialism!" when anyone suggests universal health care or a living wage law - as we drive our car down the public roadways on the way to take our children to the public school after we showered in public water after sleeping in comfort knowing public servants were on watch all night.

Ironic no?

 

[banned]

Ty...as long we leave the bad idea's alone and pick and choose the ones wich are good we show intelligence to the world...not by feeling ourselfs BIG and point fingers.We may have to leave that to China for the future so they will get the same problems as USA and than all the labor and factories are coming back to us...:cool

 

[Johnfromokc]

I have not verified whether Jefferson actually said these words, but they are soooo appropriate today:

 

[Stone]

Banned - Great post! I'm the guy who said we should look to other countries and see what is working for them and implement those ideas here. Americans have a very difficult time believeing any other country could do anything better than us. This is because since we were toddlers, we have been told "America #1!!" and we are the reason Europe in not Nazi's today and therefore all other countries should kneel and kiss our American asses.

We scream "Socialism!" when anyone suggests universal health care or a living wage law - as we drive our car down the public roadways on the way to take our children to the public school after we showered in public water after sleeping in comfort knowing public servants were on watch all night.

Ironic no?

Ironic?

What you keep suggesting doesn't seem affordable in an economy that's in a failure mode.

Like a living wage when economies are global and one of the reasons the US is less competitive is the cost of US labor compared to the world markets.

Like arguing Universal Health Care at a time when the medical profession is facing an increase of bankruptcies from a decrease of Medicare payouts. ( http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/05/smallbusiness/doctors_broke/index.htm?hpt=hp_t3 )
To actually have universal care, universal coverage is a concern and if your argument is to have equal care ( the wealthy versus the uninsured ) coverage should not decline that denies the uninsured.
So....the result of a 'fair' Universal Health Care package is going to be a more costly system additional to a period of economic stress. That's not conducive to economic recovery.
Or it's merely going to be the extension of incomplete coverage for everyone with the lower middle class and uninsured still getting shorted in care as those that can afford do so.
And there is a wide range of effect between the two extremes.....but it still relates to lessening of efficiency and cost overruns.


Simply.....your focus isn't affordable at this time.
The main problem affecting all social programs is that our economy is not healthy and affordability is the issue.

That's reality, not politics.

 

[Johnfromokc]

What's your solution Stone? I'm looking at other countries that are getting it done and doing right by their own middle class as we fuck our middle class over by the day. And every time I suggest a solution, you, and others like you come and attempt to shoot it down - but as yet, you have no suggestion for solutions - only criticisms.

 

[banned]

@ stone...I am sure with so much money available in the USA (nonsense to say there is none or we are bankrubt) there can be for sure found a way to fund and make every one happy.If there is a will there is a way.Same like beeing Pro Life.Most think by beeing against abortation you are for Pro Life.For me beeing pro life holds a lot more to it than just only that.
So conclusion is that we do can afford it .....we just don';t know how.

 

[Stone]

What's your solution Stone? I'm looking at other countries that are getting it done and doing right by their own middle class as we fuck our middle class over by the day. And every time I suggest a solution, you, and others like you come and attempt to shoot it down - but as yet, you have no suggestion for solutions - only criticisms.

What's your solution Stone?

Ignore the dumb ass solutions you promote.

I'm looking at other countries that are getting it done and doing right by their own middle class as we fuck our middle class over by the day.

As pointed out....your solutions fuck the middle class even more than now.

And every time I suggest a solution, you, and others like you come and attempt to shoot it down - but as yet, you have no suggestion for solutions - only criticisms.

Well, quit presenting such dumb ass solutions :24:


I've posted my concerns in the past.....especially when I first entered this forum.
And I saw little support as this forum ( like most ) is politically motivated.
It's corruption. I think most of our issues are based in it and until the general public demands reform and have representatives that express it, not much is going to change for the better. Short term, maybe a little.....but not long term.

 

[Accountable]

I have not verified whether Jefferson actually said these words, but they are soooo appropriate today:

I googled it. It's Jefferson's alright.

 

[Stone]

@ stone...I am sure with so much money available in the USA (nonsense to say there is none or we are bankrubt) there can be for sure found a way to fund and make every one happy.If there is a will there is a way.Same like beeing Pro Life.Most think by beeing against abortation you are for Pro Life.For me beeing pro life holds a lot more to it than just only that.
So conclusion is that we do can afford it .....we just don';t know how.

(nonsense to say there is none or we are bankrubt)

Our governments ( the Feds and many States ) are technically bankrupt because they are generating additional debt to cover current operations and current debt obligations.
When that scenario becomes unsupportable, the economyhas obviously gone into failure.

To project affordability at this time is an argument of confiscation.
There is a movement to increase the taxation on those making a $million a year.
Fine...no argument on the concept...but it's an issue is how much can taxation increase without a negative impact on the economy?
That's not an argument not to tax the wealthy, it 's the reality of the economic situation we are in.

In a global economy, money travels to where it's appreciated the most.
Jobs are leaving as foreign markets generate greater monetary returns and it's begun to cut into professional jobs as well. Big pharma is investing in other parts of the world at the expense of US scientific jobs. Pfizer is an example.

So conclusion is that we do can afford it .....we just don';t know how.

I can relate to that.
My concern is that we may have reached an economic 'tipping point' and solutions are draconian and unacceptable by most. But may occur anyway by default.

 

[banned]

@ stone...that reform is already in a process and you can help it by voting Democrat... problem is you need to see the reform and the trying to do so....TODAY is the trying for new immigration laws were have the other side been trying on...how to spell the word NO ?:eek

Carrying on the same we did for the last 40 years is not a reform...

 

[Accountable]

What's your solution Stone? I'm looking at other countries that are getting it done and doing right by their own middle class as we fuck our middle class over by the day. And every time I suggest a solution, you, and others like you come and attempt to shoot it down - but as yet, you have no suggestion for solutions - only criticisms.

Ehhhhhh. There've been solutions suggested. You just don't like them. :cool

@ stone...I am sure with so much money available in the USA (nonsense to say there is none or we are bankrubt) there can be for sure found a way to fund and make every one happy.If there is a will there is a way.Same like beeing Pro Life.Most think by beeing against abortation you are for Pro Life.For me beeing pro life holds a lot more to it than just only that.
So conclusion is that we do can afford it .....we just don';t know how.

Our gov't programs & payoffs have put us in debt to the point of bankruptcy. Individuals have some cash, yes, but the gov't is in hock up to our eyeballs.

 

[Accountable]

I've posted my concerns in the past.....especially when I first entered this forum.
And I saw little support as this forum ( like most ) is politically motivated.

If you want a forum with political motivations, you might think about trying a political forum. :shrug:
I can pm you a couple if you want.

 

[banned]

@ Accountable....Than fill up your safe with money to pay your debts and create a increase in revenue my friend....and you have to do it quick.
With showing a record gap between poor and rich and having the most expensive politicians and government in the world is a writing on the wall.
Bring that GAP down and raise taxes there were you can and to those who can affort it.
There is NO alternative as it is hard to get BLOOD out of a stone.

 

[banned]

If you want a forum with political motivations, you might think about trying a political forum. :shrug:
I can pm you a couple if you want.

Huh ? am I in the wrong forum ?:eek

 

[Stone]

@ stone...that reform is already in a process and you can help it by voting Democrat... problem is you need to see the reform and the trying to do so....TODAY is the trying for new immigration laws were have the other side been trying on...how to spell the word NO ?:eek

Carrying on the same we did for the last 40 years is not a reform...

Denying reality is not a solution.

 

[Stone]

If you want a forum with political motivations, you might think about trying a political forum. :shrug:
I can pm you a couple if you want.

This is a politically motivated forum.
Are you suggesting I not post here?

 

[Stone]

Huh ? am I in the wrong forum ?:eek

If you don't agree.....yeah :24:

 

[banned]

@ stone....think your comments are sincere and with common sense ...I certainly see your points and values with believes and take them all at heart and into account.I appreciate it.:thumbup Keep em comming....

 

[Johnfromokc]

Ignore the dumb ass solutions you promote.

No ideas or suggestions, only criticism.

As pointed out....your solutions fuck the middle class even more than now.

How would you know Stone? My ideas have never been implemented here. But they are working nicely in Europe and Australia. Interesting they still have a middle class and defend it.

Even more interesting is how people like you hypocritically utilize the very Social Security and Medicare systems you critcize.

Well, quit presenting such dumb ass solutions

More of the same from you. What's sad is that you actually think you are clever.

I've posted my concerns in the past.....especially when I first entered this forum.
And I saw little support as this forum ( like most ) is politically motivated.
It's corruption. I think most of our issues are based in it and until the general public demands reform and have representatives that express it, not much is going to change for the better. Short term, maybe a little.....but not long term.

What you posted where myopic repeats of failed right wing ideology that got us where we are today. And like most conservo-libertarian thinkers you seem to think more of the same policies that got us in this situation will somehow get us out.

 

[Johnfromokc]

@ stone....think your comments are sincere and with common sense ...I certainly see your points and values with believes and take them all at heart and into account.I appreciate it.:thumbup Keep em comming....

Seriously?

OK - maybe I missed something. What common sense point has stone made thus far? All I see him doing is complaining and critcizing other peoples ideas while offering NOTHING in the way of suggestions for solutions.