Can you prove the external world exists?

[All Else Failed]

But if a "fact" or other measurable observation is observed consistently by millions of people, I still don't see how that negates the possibility of its existence. Standing by itself, yes, it is merely an observation. But if duplicated by millions of others, those duplicate observations define existence.

All of those people could be illusions that your mind is projecting.



My position is this: I cannot prove whether the external world really exists or not, so I take a stanc eof total indifference towards the concept. I just don't care if it exists or not. I just accept relaity as how I percive it and go from there. The question almost doesn't even matter anymore.

 

[All Else Failed]

I don't think you are understanding what Scott is saying.

The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.
The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference.
The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference.
And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference.

For one who is indifferent, life itself is a prison. Any sense of community is external or, even worse, nonexistent. Thus, indifference means solitude. Those who are indifferent do not see others. They feel nothing for others and are unconcerned with what might happen to them. They are surrounded by a great emptiness. Filled by it, in fact. They are devoid of all hope as well as imagination. In other words, devoid of any future.
~Elie Wiesel~

You can't feel indifference if you believe in something - in anything (secular or religion). You have to have faith in something in order to believe (even what one considers factual as that is perception as well) in anything with our perception being what it is or isn't. - Which is what both you and Scott are saying.

Hope that explains a bit better the point Scott was making.

Well thats the thing. things like atheism do not take any faith

 

[groundpounder]

My position is this: I cannot prove whether the external world really exists or not, so I take a stanc eof total indifference towards the concept. I just don't care if it exists or not. I just accept relaity as how I percive it and go from there. The question almost doesn't even matter anymore.

That's almost a decent answer if it didn't matter.

I hate to break it to you, but you're paradoxically indifferent. Because you're not. :cool

 

[groundpounder]

Well thats the thing. things like atheism do not take any faith

It takes faith that God doesnt exist. You better hope you're right.

Do you consider yourself a logical person? (I'm not going to burn this one in your "Ask AEF" thread since you haven't made it over to my GP thread yet as requested. :cool)

 

[All Else Failed]

Well thank you for explaining my personal beliefs to me, oh mighty one. Even though you completely misinterpreted them.

 

[All Else Failed]

It takes faith that God doesnt exist. You better hope you're right.

Do you consider yourself a logical person? (I'm not going to burn this one in your "Ask AEF" thread since you haven't made it over to my GP thread yet as requested. :cool)

Reading is fun!

Atheist Revolution




Also: Faith is belief without proof. I disbelieve because of no evidence. That's not called faith. It is called skepticism.

 

[GraceAbounds]

I just accept relaity as how I percive it and go from there.

Our perception being what it is means that it would take faith on your part to accept reality as you perceive it.

 

[All Else Failed]

Our perception being what it is means that it would take faith on your part to accept reality as you perceive it.

No i just don't care. You actually need to care to have faith.

 

[GraceAbounds]

You believe things to be true or you wouldn't spend so much time arguing with people over them.

 

[All Else Failed]

You believe things to be true or you wouldn't spend so much time arguing with people over them.

bordom, its a wonderful thing.

 

[groundpounder]

Well thank you for explaining my personal beliefs to me, oh mighty one. Even though you completely misinterpreted them.

I love it when you do this!

 

[All Else Failed]

Lets just stop all this mean fighting and talk about our feelings over some milk and cookies, gp. Doesn't that sound wonderrrrrfuulllll

 

[groundpounder]

My position is this: I cannot prove whether the external world really exists or not, so I take a stanc eof total indifference towards the concept. I just don't care if it exists or not. I just accept relaity as how I percive it and go from there. The question almost doesn't even matter anymore.

I just realized that AEF just proved beyond the shadow of a doubt why post counts don't matter! :24:

Thanks! You've finally added something to the forum! :clap

 

[groundpounder]

Lets just stop all this mean fighting and talk about our feelings over some milk and cookies, gp. Doesn't that sound wonderrrrrfuulllll

no.

 

[HouseOvaries]

You didn't even look at my argument...the most important piece of information. Oh well...you're simply digging a deeper hole by accident.

 

[All Else Failed]

You didn't even look at my argument...the most important piece of information. Oh well...you're simply digging a deeper hole by accident.

What, this?

We can't prove anythign without any evidence. Find that first...

What kind of evidence do you want?

 

[HouseOvaries]

What, this?




What kind of evidence do you want?

If you have no proof or anything, then how can you make these assumptions. There's nothing to back it up with.

 

[All Else Failed]

If you have no proof or anything, then how can you make these assumptions. There's nothing to back it up with.

Its a purely philosophical question. Its a fact that you experience everything through your 5 senses, and we all know those can be easily and always are tricked. Knowing this, the question asks if we can really prove anything we experience to be true since these senses are so faulty.

Even been to a magic show where an amazing thing has been done and you can't figure it out? There's some evidence of something tricking your senses, but in this quesiton you may not be aware of the trickery unless you actually contemplate it.

 

[HouseOvaries]

Its a purely philosophical question. Its a fact that you experience everything through your 5 senses, and we all know those can be easily and always are tricked. Knowing this, the question asks if we can really prove anything we experience to be true since these senses are so faulty.

Even been to a magic show where an amazing thing has been done and you can't figure it out? There's some evidence of something tricking your senses, but in this quesiton you may not be aware of the trickery unless you actually contemplate it.

Example???

"Like I think I see god, but it's just my imagination."

^ that simple, huh?

 

[All Else Failed]

Example???

"Like I think I see god, but it's just my imagination."

^ that simple, huh?

Well, since there is always a possibility of your eye sight being tricked, then yes. Theoretically, you could just seeing faulty information your brain is telling you that you are "seeing".