Can sciences prove the existence of God ?

[BlackCherry]

Does anyone have training wheels that can be screwed onto someone's thinking?



This guy doesn't even know what the meaning of "proof" is.

"Science cannot directly prove the divine!" He said. But then he gives us fundie sties saying it is proof. Oh man I may just skip my afternoon classes to watch this clown show.

Which is the other implied point I was trying to make but clearly it was lost...

*purchasing stock in helmets now*

 

[333halfabeast]

So, do we have an answer yet?

 

[All Else Failed]

When you guys have answered is question then we will get to that debate.:thumbup

his questions have been answered, he just ignores it because he's toot steeped in his ideology to accept anything else.

 

[Sylviane88]

When you guys have answered is question then we will get to that debate.:thumbup

He tries to escape from the original topic because he knows he has failed to respond to obvious questions .. I don't know what makes him afraid from recognizing his failure and leaving it to those who are better than him.
Mr "all else failed" we are not here in the competition "who is the hero ! " .. this topic is seen by everyone so do not try to lie on yourself and the people :thumbup​

 

[BigRicky]

He tries to escape from the original topic because he knows he has failed to respond to obvious questions .. I don't know what makes him afraid from recognizes his failure and leaves it to those who are better than him.
Mr "all else failed" this topic is seen by everyone so do not try to lie on yourself and the people :thumbup​

He answered the question. You just refuse to accept his answers.

 

[Sylviane88]

He answered the question. You just refuse to accept his answers.

Where ?

He failed to answer the first question ! he didn't even try to answer the last two questions !

I ask you again: where did he answer my questions ?

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

We will all need these to move forward in this thread..

 

[BigRicky]

Where ?

He failed to answer the first question ! he didn't even try to answer the last two questions !

I ask you again: where did he answer my questions ?

His first post.

Sure, I can't 100% prove that god isn't real. However, I do think that there are things that point to him not likely existing.


lol you just said that science cannot prove the existence of god but then you go on to say it can do it indirectly? Your argument falls apart even before you start it. Annnnd then you go on to the old creationist argument of "IT LOOKS COMPLICATED SO MAGIC MAN DONE IT!". Please sir, consult any biologist that deals with the immune system and they will tell you how it evolved through time. There are literally thousands of peer reviewed scientific journals on the subject. This leads me back to the common thread that connects all creationists: They are scientifically illiterate. I do not mean that as an insult, I mean it as a fact. Creationists go on and on about how things in the natural world are "far too complicated for them to have evolved!", yet they don't even understand the very basic things that they are critisizing! So please, go read a book.



You confuse the semantics of the word "miracle". A mother and fetus's relatonship biologically is not a miracle. Miracles are thing that happen that are otherwise impossible. Like a horse sprouting wings and flying away. Anything that happens in preganancy can easily be explained through natrualistic and biological means.



you say:

Someone says: "I don't believe in God because I don't see him !!!" .. my man you can not even see the whole universe ! how about it's creator ???

Actually no, I don't disbelieve in god because I cannot see him. I disbeleive in him because there is no evidence for him. Zero. Nothing. Nada. You also confuse the word "beleif" with the rightful word to use regarding the universe which is "accept". I accept that the universe is there because there is evidence of it.



Someone says: "Who created God ?" .. This question is totally idiot ! God is the creator not the created ! I'm afraid to say that our mind cannot overpass this question because that leads us to an unlimited number of questions: who created the creator of god ? who created the creator of the creator of god ?!!!!!!!!!! who :mad ? and finally we will find the creator and not created which is: God .


Actually, "who created god" is a perfectly reasonable question since Christians do not believe that something can come from nothing. God IS somehting, and since you do not think anything can arise out of nothing then you have to apply your logic to everything, including god. So where did god come from?


Fail.

It just wasn't an answer you liked, so you chose not to accept it and argue with him.

 

[All Else Failed]

He tries to escape from the original topic because he knows he has failed to respond to obvious questions .. I don't know what makes him afraid from recognizing his failure and leaving it to those who are better than him.
Mr "all else failed" we are not here in the competition "who is the hero ! " .. this topic is seen by everyone so do not try to lie on yourself and the people :thumbup​

Hahaha, afraid? Why would I be afraid of your silly ideology? Its under my shoe. You are the one that is afraid. Several of us have used perfectly logical and rational arguments against your nonsense, and even backed up our claims with reputable evidence, but you do what all fundamentalists do: You remain willfully ignorant of anything that may, JUST MAY, sway you from your original position. That is why its a waste of time to try to have a discussion from you, you'll never come out of your extremely narrow thought process.

His first post.



It just wasn't an answer you liked, so you chose not to accept it and argue with him.

no no no, you see that post is just your imagination! SATAN HIMSELF is testing your faith with mirages! :24:

 

[Sylviane88]

I gave three clear examples and three related queries:

1- The immune system which may be equated completely with the "military system":

Military barracks (lymph nodes) .. the soldiers (white blood cells and lymphocytes) .. camps and schools of education and training course (the bone marrow and thymus) .. intelligence Service (antibody) .. The means of communication used by the body's cells to ask for help from the "military system" when a foreign attack ( cytokines ) ... Fully integrated system ! .. The question here is:
Where did this amazing integration come from ? how did it begin ? how did this integration create itself ?​

2- Another example: Mother and foetus .. In most cases, fetal and mother's blood group are different, and there is a vital exchange between the mother's and the fetal blood. However, the blood mixing is not possible thanks to a vital barrier (placenta). This is really a miracle that cannot begin by chance ! Can the theory of evolution explain the beginning of this miracle ?​

3- Another example: Sex: Human and most other living organisms have two sexes totally different but quite integrated to the most important function to ensure survival. Not only that, but for both sexes, the so-called "natural instinct" which attract both sexes to each other! really great integration!
How did it start? How did this integration create itself? Is there another chance theory that can explain this without a creator?​

See, three clear direct questions ! I want three clear direct answers .. I have asked for neither newspapers nor trivial off topic philosophies. Understood ? DIRECT CLEAR ANSWERS !

You tried to answer only the first question:
-you said that immune system evolved through time.

-I said tell me how did the immune system evolve from nothing to a complex integrated system today.

-You provided some off topic links speaking about the evolving of some antibodies ( in few days ) by the lymphocytes against some infections ! or some diseases of the immune system !

-I asked you again how did the whole immune system evolve from nothing ( millions/billions/unknown nb of years ago ) to the current complex and integrated system ? the main thing in my query was the beginning of its INTEGRATION without a creator ! ( now, the immune system "as an integrated system" can evolve the quality of some of its components. but how about it before it was an integrated complex system ? before it was even a system ? where did its integration come from ? )

-You denied that immune system has evolved from nothing, you said that "nothing" did not exist, because there are things called "virtual particles" which are always present.

( You provided a PDF link - I told you that is still only a hypothesis, not even a proven theory ... Even the author admitted that at the beginning of the article )

-I accepted that ( in order to get a direct answer ) and I asked you again: how did the whole immune system evolve from the so-called virtual particles ( millions/billions/unknown nb of years ago ) to the current complex and integrated system ???

-Here you decided to not answer me claiming you are wasting your time ! ( because you knew you can never give a direct answer ) .. Instead, you accused me that I'm contradicting myself saying: " although science can not prove the existence of God directly, it can do so INDIRECTLY ".

-I clarified : Science cannot prove the existence/inexistence of god DIRECTLY because ( as you know ) it is limited to the physical so it can neither prove nor disprove the spiritual .. However if we make a good look of some scientific discoveries (in particular, which are integrated and very complex), we will find that the idea of atheism can never explain the beginning of the functional integration of these things. Therefore, current science as well (although it is limited) can INDIRECTLY lead us to discover the answer of our main question: does the god exist ? .. Where is the contradition in all that ???

Fail !

-The second example, you claimed I don't know even the meaning of the word "miracle" !
-While you don't know even what has I meant by "Miracle", I didn't mean the mother and fetus's relatonship, I meant the beginning of this complex relationship without creator ?

Fail !

You have totally ignored the third example !

Fail !

I hope your next posts will be DIRECT CLEAR ANSWERS, otherwise, take my advice: leave it to those who are better than you ! :thumbup

 

[Minor Axis]

-I asked you again how did the whole immune system evolve from nothing ( millions/billions/unknown nb of years ago ) to the current complex and integrated system ? the main thing in my query was the beginning of its INTEGRATION without a creator ! ( now, the immune system "as an integrated system" can evolve the quality of some of its components. but how about it before it was an integrated complex system ? before it was even a system ? where did its integration come from ? )

It came from God.

-I accepted that ( in order to get a direct answer ) and I asked you again: how did the whole immune system evolve from the so-called virtual particles ( millions/billions/unknown nb of years ago ) to the current complex and integrated system ???

God did it.

-I clarified : Science cannot prove the existence/inexistence of god DIRECTLY because ( as you know ) it is limited to the physical so it can neither prove nor disprove the spiritual .. However if we make a good look of some scientific discoveries (in particular, which are integrated and very complex), we will find that the idea of atheism can never explain the beginning of the functional integration of these things. Therefore, current science as well (although it is limited) can INDIRECTLY lead us to discover the answer of our main question: does the god exist ? .. Where is the contradition in all that ???

No contradiction, God is the answer.

-The second example, you claimed I don't know even the meaning of the word "miracle" !
-While you don't know even what has I meant by "Miracle", I didn't mean the mother and fetus's relatonship, I meant the beginning of this complex relationship without creator ?

God is the creator.

Now, the REAL QUESTION: who or what is God? While many of our members believe in Science as the description of how things occur and their physical relationships, where it all started can be attributed to some power in the universe or some process that is simply beyond our comprehension. Ok, so there is something out there we don't understand, duh! Mankind has been pondering this since the beginning. Ancient, very superstitious people wrote scripts, their attempt to describe their place in the universe standing before the imagined supreme being. So you guys call it "GOD", fine.

But to many scientifically oriented people, it's laughable when fundamentalists come into these forums to argue these ancient scripts as a source of truth, in fact I laugh! Haha! Now could it be true? Possibly. So what? As hard as you want to try, there is nothing to prove that God is as describe in the Qur'an or the Bible and is our father in heaven. You may feel that, fine. No problem from me. My problem is when you and others of fervant faith try to argue dogmatic faith as fact when your arguments meet non of the standards of factual truth.

"God" is mostly used as a dumbed down concept making it simple for the sheep to follow. Nothing to ponder, because you have it all figured out. But as Jessie Ventura once said "Religion is for weak minded fools." To some degree I agree. What is hard is really trying to figure out the meaning of your existence if there is one! In conclusion, stop trying to pretend you know exactly who/what God is.

 

[sophie]

Circular logic is no logic at all.

 

[Sylviane88]

It came from God.
God did it.
No contradiction, God is the answer.
God is the creator.

Nice failure way to deny the existence of god :clap

Now, the REAL QUESTION is who or what is God?

We know that the human mind is a true marvel, but in certain areas it is limited. God is different from anything the human mind can think of or imagine, so the mind will become confused if it tries to picture God. Nevertheless, it is possible to understand the attributes of God that do not require one to make any mental pictures of Him. For example, one of God’s names is al-Ghaffar, which means He forgives all sins. Everyone can understand this easily because that is how the human mind can think of God. Jewish and Christian teachings on God are confused partly because of incorrect understanding of this issue ( The Jewish Torah teaches God is like man ) .. However, in the Quran: “There is nothing comparable to Him.” (Quran 112:4)

God is the only real supreme being, all-powerful and all knowing Creator, Sustainer, Ordainer, and Judge of the universe. all-merciful and omnipotent. he has the most logical attributes:
The Most Gracious
The Most Merciful
The Ever Forgiving
The Ever Providing
The Lord and Cherisher of the Worlds
The Self Subsisting (upon whom all creatures depend for sustenance)
The Eternal Lord (who never dies)
The Supremely Wise

God says in the Quran: “We will show them our signs in the furthest regions (of the earth) and in their souls, until it becomes clear to them that this is the truth…” (Quran 41:53)

Muslims worship the God of Noah, Abraham, Moses, David and Jesus. Some of the biggest misconceptions that many non-Muslims have about Islam have to do with the word “Allah”. For various reasons, many people have come to believe that Muslims worship a different God than Christians and Jews. This is totally false, since “Allah” is simply the Arabic word for “God” .. Judaism, Christianity and Islam all claim to be “Abrahamic Faiths”, and all of them are also classified as “monotheistic.” However, Islam teaches that other religions have, in one way or another, distorted and nullified a pure and proper belief in Almighty God by neglecting His true teachings and mixing them with man-made ideas.

I think that this website is very useful for those who search the real God: The Religion of Islam

 

[skyblue]

( The Jewish Torah teaches God is like man ) .. However, in the Quran: “There is nothing comparable to Him.” (Quran 112:4)[/SIZE][/FONT]

i was taught that man was created in gods own image

 

[All Else Failed]

oh look more Koran citations which do nothing

 

[Sylviane88]

i was taught that man was created in gods own image

that is only in the judaism and christianity .. not Islam

oh look more Koran citations which do nothing

oh look more posts which do nothing

 

[All Else Failed]

you do realize that you're not persuading anyone by quoting the Koran, right? if you continue to respond to people's sincere questions just by copy & pasting scripture and not using your own head then no one is going to take you seriously.

 

[Sylviane88]

you do realize that you're not persuading anyone by quoting the Koran, right? if you continue to respond to people's sincere questions just by copy & pasting scripture and not using your own head then no one is going to take you seriously.

I'm not quoting Koran here as proof ! I'm quoting it as "witness" to show that I'm not saying something wrong about Islam, that's all ! .. it's you Mr "all else failed" who has already said that I don't know even the meaning of "proof" ! Now it seems that it's you who doesn't know the meaning of the word, do you .. ?

 

[All Else Failed]

I'm not quoting Koran here as proof ! I'm quoting it as "witness" to show that I'm not saying something wrong about Islam, that's all ! .. it's you Mr "all else failed" who has already said that I don't know even the meaning of "proof" ! Now it seems that it's you who doesn't know the meaning of the word, do you .. ?

No, I do know the meaning of proof, I've been posting it through out the thread.

 

[Sylviane88]

So, do we have an answer yet?

Up :thumbup