"Better" health care in the US

[All Else Failed]

I've already been out of this country, to Europe and the Caribbean. I have friends that live in Europe, that aren't on this forum. Do you want to know what the difference between here and there is besides healthcare and language? Nothing. Yeah you read right, nothing. So will I appreciate what I have here? family? yes. anything else? no. I'm just looking at a different scenery. Hopefully with a cocktail in my hand

A universal payer system will always be better economically than multiple profit driven corporations, if you can't see that then you're close minded. If you honestly think you have a choice, you're sadly mistaken. You may be happy with a gun held to your head, but I'm not.

Uh I do have a choice when it comes to what insurance company I use or what type of insurance I use.

With a single payer you have no choice. You MUST have government insurance, and there is ZERO competition.


Instead of throwing out our entire system, why don't we just work with the current insurance companies? Drop the state restrictions with who they can insure so that they can compete on a national scale.

Mindsets have to change. It will take generations to change cuz you guys been brain-washed by the constitution for more than 3 centuries. Any form of govt control will be a taboo or stigma to you guys.

I find it sort of ironic that a Chinese person is telling us that we're brainwashed.


Hows your government controlled internet doing these days?

 

[kelvin070]

Uh I do have a choice when it comes to what insurance company I use or what type of insurance I use.

With a single payer you have no choice. You MUST have government insurance, and there is ZERO competition.


Instead of throwing out our entire system, why don't we just work with the current insurance companies? Drop the state restrictions with who they can insure so that they can compete on a national scale.



I find it sort of ironic that a Chinese person is telling us that we're brainwashed.


Hows your government controlled internet doing these days?

:24::24::24::24::24: What makes you think I am chinese? You think Singapore is all chinaman and part of China?:24::24::24::24::24:

 

[Tangerine]

:24::24::24::24::24: What makes you think I am chinese? You think Singapore is all chinaman and part of China?:24::24::24::24::24:

That's about equally absurd as all of the stereotypes you believe and propogate about Americans.

 

[retro]

open your eyes. there are better things out there than what the US has to offer when it comes to insurance.

"better" is highly subjective.

 

[kelvin070]

That's about equally absurd as all of the stereotypes you believe and propogate about Americans.

Most topics in this forum are abt americans. I might as well chip in with some crap for you guys to read.

 

[Tangerine]

Because if the Government tells me it's the "best rate possible" they're completely full of shit.

Do you get the "best rate possible" for your electricity or water? How do you know?

 

[GuesSAngel]

"better" is highly subjective.

no it's not.

 

[Tangerine]

no it's not.

Really? Is Coke or Pepsi better.

That's possibly the most ridiculous thing you've posted.

 

[GuesSAngel]

Really? Is Coke or Pepsi better.

That's possibly the most ridiculous thing you've posted.

really? one word. recession. who's in it and who's not?

nah i've posted far worse to piss people off lol or "offend" people. Everyone is so damn touchy, yea well.



oh P.S. pepsi is better.

 

[Tim]

Uh I do have a choice when it comes to what insurance company I use or what type of insurance I use.

With a single payer you have no choice. You MUST have government insurance, and there is ZERO competition.

You only have a choice if you buy your insurance on your own, but that isn't the case 90% of the time. Most people have the insurance that their employer chooses for them. So 90% of Americans have no choice.

Government run health insurance is nothing more than a single payer system. It shouldn't matter who pays your bills when it comes to health care. The only thing that should matter is how cost effective it is. And with any insurance, you get the best rate possible by having as many people buy into the plan as possible while reducing overhead. Medicare has shown that it can operate with a mere 3% overhead. And if you were able to get everyone under the same umbrella, it would reduce the costs for everyone.
If you think I'm wrong on this, then please tell me how you reduce health care insurance costs if it's not by getting as many people as you can to spread the costs over a wide base and reducing your overhead.

Instead of throwing out our entire system, why don't we just work with the current insurance companies? Drop the state restrictions with who they can insure so that they can compete on a national scale.

Drop the state restrictions? Do you know anything about insurance and how it works or do you just like to repeat the "cool" things you hear?
First... Insurance companies are exempt from antitrust laws, so they can sit across the table and fix the prices to whatever the hell they want.
Second... Insurance companies are able to save money by working within their "network" Meaning they work deals with the local hospitals and services to pay a reduced rate in return to have their customers use their services. This is why you need to be "in network" in order for your insurance to cover your services. So if I were to buy insurance from Texas, I wouldn't be able to use it here in PA since I wouldn't be anywhere near their network. And if you think that insurance companies would be able to have a nationwide network and still be competitive, you are sadly mistaken. This was attempted by Blue Cross/Blue shield several times without success. They lost all of their bargaining power and went back to small localized networks.

 

[GuesSAngel]

but to make everyone feel better, sure it's subjective. i guess it's your own opinion as to what is 'better' out there.

kumbaya.

 

[Tim]

Because if the Government tells me it's the "best rate possible" they're completely full of shit.

Do you get the "best rate possible" for your electricity or water? How do you know?

Doesn't anyone understand insurance and how it works?

1. The more people you have under your umbrella of coverage, the better it is for everyone. You cannot offer $1million life insurance to 10 people for just $20 a month, but you can if you are covering 100,000 people.
2. The higher your overhead, the less you can pay in services.
3. For profit insurance only turn a profit when they screw the customer.

 

[Accountable]

A universal payer system will always be better economically than multiple profit driven corporations, if you can't see that then you're close minded. If you honestly think you have a choice, you're sadly mistaken. You may be happy with a gun held to your head, but I'm not.

What do you mean? Who is holding a gun to my head?

it's [government mandated insurance] not a gun to your head b/c if you can't find insurance that cost 8% of your salary or less then you don't have to buy it.

But you still have to have it, right? Do you think those people get it free from the insurance company? No, the insurance company charges the government. The government pays with tax dollars. Those tax dollars come from the same people So those who are leeches now would still be leeches then. Taxpayers who paid for their own insurance before still pay for their own insurance. The leeches who were paid for by them will still be paid for by them. What is different?

 

[Accountable]

Doesn't anyone understand insurance and how it works?

1. The more people you have under your umbrella of coverage, the better it is for everyone. You cannot offer $1million life insurance to 10 people for just $20 a month, but you can if you are covering 100,000 people.
2. The higher your overhead, the less you can pay in services.
3. For profit insurance only turn a profit when they screw the customer.

Obviously you were tired and/or in a hurry. Higher overhead does not lower costs. Care to try again?

 

[dt3]

You only have a choice if you buy your insurance on your own, but that isn't the case 90% of the time. Most people have the insurance that their employer chooses for them. So 90% of Americans have no choice.

:24: Worst. Argument. Ever.

Everybody with employer coverage has a choice to NOT use that employers coverage, and have the option to buy their own. Heck, lots of people use the insurance as a major determing factor in whether or not they take the job in the first place.

I've never heard of an employer saying "You must use the insurance I offer", in fact that would be illegal. But if Congress says it, I guess that's ok?

 

[Tim]

Obviously you were tired and/or in a hurry. Higher overhead does not lower costs. Care to try again?

The higher your overhead, the less you can pay your customers in services. Meaning if insurance company X has $20 million in overhead each year, that's $20 million they cannot use to cover claims.

:24: Worst. Argument. Ever.

Everybody with employer coverage has a choice to NOT use that employers coverage, and have the option to buy their own. Heck, lots of people use the insurance as a major determing factor in whether or not they take the job in the first place.

I've never heard of an employer saying "You must use the insurance I offer", in fact that would be illegal. But if Congress says it, I guess that's ok?

You're right, I could say to my employer that I refuse to use the benefits they provide and buy my own. But the reality is that I will never be able to come up with the money to buy it.
My insurance coverage costs my employer $1300 a month, do you think they will just fork that money over to me if I want to opt out of their coverage? There is no way. Their ability to get coverage for everyone at the company is dependent on everyone buying in.

So what's the chance that most people have enough extra cash laying around to give up employer provided health care to buy their own out of pocket? Not likely at all...

 

[dt3]

You're right, I could say to my employer that I refuse to use the benefits they provide and buy my own. But the reality is that I will never be able to come up with the money to buy it.
My insurance coverage costs my employer $1300 a month, do you think they will just fork that money over to me if I want to opt out of their coverage? There is no way. Their ability to get coverage for everyone at the company is dependent on everyone buying in.

So what's the chance that most people have enough extra cash laying around to give up employer provided health care to buy their own out of pocket? Not likely at all...

But you're still free to choose what's best for you. You can choose to use their insurance. You can choose not to use it. You can choose to take a different job if they have better insurance. Under this "improved" bill, you MUST get insurance. There's no choice, and that's wrong.

 

[GuesSAngel]

But you're still free to choose what's best for you. You can choose to use their insurance. You can choose not to use it. You can choose to take a different job if they have better insurance. Under this "improved" bill, you MUST get insurance. There's no choice, and that's wrong.

yes we do have those choices, in theory. But those choices aren't practical for 90% of the population.

Choose to take a different job? how many people have that choice nowadays?

 

[Tim]

But you're still free to choose what's best for you. You can choose to use their insurance. You can choose not to use it. You can choose to take a different job if they have better insurance. Under this "improved" bill, you MUST get insurance. There's no choice, and that's wrong.

Reality is that you get the best job you can and then take the insurance they offer. That's the reality

Yes, you must get insurance if you can afford it which will bring the costs down for those of us who already have it. And if you can't afford it the government will help you get it. Yes, this will cost tax payer dollars, but it will be less costs to me the tax payer then covering those who don't have it by paying $1400 a year more in premiums. So I pay for them one way or another right now and I would rather pay more effectively.

If you give me the option to pay for your doctor bills or pay for your insurance, I will choose the later every time since it will be cheaper in the long run. And right now I don't have a choice, I MUST pay for the hospital bills of the uninsured.

 

[Accountable]

Reality is that you get the best job you can and then take the insurance they offer. That's the reality

Yes, you must get insurance if you can afford it which will bring the costs down for those of us who already have it. And if you can't afford it the government will help you get it. Yes, this will cost tax payer dollars, but it will be less costs to me the tax payer then covering those who don't have it by paying $1400 a year more in premiums. So I pay for them one way or another right now and I would rather pay more effectively.

If you give me the option to pay for your doctor bills or pay for your insurance, I will choose the later every time since it will be cheaper in the long run. And right now I don't have a choice, I MUST pay for the hospital bills of the uninsured.

You keep spouting this bullshit and it hasn't occurred to you yet

• How many people are currently unemployed? Use whatever estimate you like.
• How many of those will actually be required to shell out money for health insurance after the gov't takeover?
• What's the percentage of the total insurance-buying population do those few people make up?
• How much of an impact will that percentage increase will have on the average insurance bill?

We can discuss the leeches later.