Barack's birth certificate

[Tim]

so he may identify mostly with his "blackness"

And if you didn't know the man and he walked up to you, would you think he was a black man or a white one?

Of course he identifies as a black man, because he is and there isn't a sane person out there that would consider him white if he labeled himself a "white" man...

 

[All Else Failed]

And if you didn't know the man and he walked up to you, would you think he was a black man or a white one?

Of course he identifies as a black man, because he is and there isn't a sane person out there that would consider him white if he labeled himself a "white" man...

It is not about appearance, it is about the reality of his genetics. In the end, he is mulatto no matter how anyone, including himself, feels about it. He can identify as one but as I said, he is what he is.


I mean if my father is German, and my mother is Chinese, I would be half-white and half-Chinese. There is no argument.

 

[Panacea]

It is not about appearance, it is about the reality of his genetics. In the end, he is mulatto no matter how anyone, including himself, feels about it. He can identify as one but as I said, he is what he is.


I mean if my father is German, and my mother is Chinese, I would be half-white and half-Chinese. There is no argument.

There would be from Retro

 

[retro]

There would be from Retro

My issue only has to do with the self-identification as something distinct and separate from others.

 

[MoonOwl]

Barry BatEars is Black? Really?:ninja

I don't give a flip what race our President is. His IQ is way more important to me. So far it appears he is above Dubya in that regard. Thank goodness. Teleprompter or not, he can speak a heck of a lot better than George on his best day.

Considering the Fortunate Son got "C"'s at Yale, any grades above that are gravy nowadays. Tho, I thought I remember reading in the runup to the election that Barack was a good student so I don't know where DumpTruck got the idea Barry was a bad student.

At this point I really don't give a shit either. That's how far Dubya dropped the bar.:willy_nilly:

 

[Zorak]

I mean if my father is German, and my mother is Chinese, I would be half-white and half-Chinese. There is no argument.

I'd say you'd be half german, half chinese.
Your father could be any colour and german.

 

[HK]

I'd say you'd be half german, half chinese.
Your father could be any colour and german.

What if you were born in England, not in your fathers homeland?

I'm just wondering at what point your personal identity stops being related to your ancestors. I have Jewish ancestors right up until my grandfather's generation, and French ancestors on my mothers side, but I'm decidedly British. I could probably make an attempt at being Jewish but it's just not my bag.

So if you're born somewhere, but have parents who were born in different countries, are you just the product of their nationalities? Shouldn't your actual birthplace and home have some say in it?

 

[Zorak]

What if you were born in England, not in your fathers homeland?

I'm just wondering at what point your personal identity stops being related to your ancestors. I have Jewish ancestors right up until my grandfather's generation, and French ancestors on my mothers side, but I'm decidedly British. I could probably make an attempt at being Jewish but it's just not my bag.

So if you're born somewhere, but have parents who were born in different countries, are you just the product of their nationalities? Shouldn't your actual birthplace and home have some say in it?

I was rather aluding to the fact that there are German's who are not white.

But that answers your question; you can be within reason whatever you can. Your national identity can shape you like George Washington, or it can haunt you like Mohammed Sceab.

 

[HK]

I was rather aluding to the fact that there are German's who are not white.

But that answers your question; you can be within reason whatever you can. Your national identity can shape you like George Washington, or it can haunt you like Mohammed Sceab.

This is true, race and nationality aren't always easy to tie up together. Being German or British or French doesn't necessarily mean being white. But the history that made you black, white, asian or whatever is still part of your genetics even if you have no cultural link yourself to the origin.

I think you're probably right - it doesn't have to affect you at all where your blood comes from, or you can view yourself as any one or many different races and cultures. Seems like it's a personal choice, rather than something you can definitively pin down and define for each individual.

 

[All Else Failed]

I'd say you'd be half german, half chinese.
Your father could be any colour and german.

There is a difference between an ethnic German and someone who isnt that is just a German citizen.

I was rather aluding to the fact that there are German's who are not white.

But that answers your question; you can be within reason whatever you can. Your national identity can shape you like George Washington, or it can haunt you like Mohammed Sceab.

They aren't Germans, though. They're German citizens.

 

[Zorak]

There is a difference between an ethnic German and someone who isnt that i just a German citizen.




They aren't Germans, though. They're German citizens.

Since Germany is one of the youngest nations in the world, and just about all of central Europe has been a part of it at some point, I'm not sure you can define an "ethnic german".

Terrible, terrible example to use.

 

[retro]

Teleprompter or not, he can speak a heck of a lot better than George on his best day.

Obama without a script/teleprompter is every bit as bad as Bush was.

"uh uhm, uh so we uh, we uhm, have this uhm plan and uhm...."

 

[All Else Failed]

Since Germany is one of the youngest nations in the world, and just about all of central Europe has been a part of it at some point, I'm not sure you can define an "ethnic german".

Terrible, terrible example to use.

Um, central Europe was mostly comprised of various Germanic tribes since around 750 BC. I'm talking about people, not nation.

 

[Zorak]

Um, central Europe was mostly comprised of various Germanic tribes since around 750 BC. I'm talking about people, not nation.

Nice thought, but they were around long before that. That's just when the Roman's gave a name for the people above the Italian peninsula. Germania.

That's no more an indication of people than a modern nation.

 

[All Else Failed]

Nice thought, but they were around long before that. That's just when the Roman's gave a name for the people above the Italian peninsula. Germania.

That's no more an indication of people than a modern nation.

Sorry, but they were all distinct tribes from common origins that settled into central Europe. What the Romans called them does not matter. They are still a distinct group of people.


A people can be outside of a nation's borders. For instance, a well known example would be the Sudeten Germans located in Czechoslovakia during WW2. Germanic people that share much of the same unique genetics with the bulk of their German nation, but not within its borders.


Oh and not all of the lands north of Rome were just called "Germania". There was Gallia, Hispania, Britannia etc etc etc.

 

[Zorak]

Sorry, but they were all distinct tribes from common origins that settled into central Europe. What the Romans called them does not matter. They are still a distinct group of people.


A people can be outside of a nation's borders. For instance, a well known example would be the Sudeten Germans located in Czechoslovakia during WW2. Germanic people that share much of the same unique genetics with the bulk of their German nation, but not within its borders.


Oh and not all of the lands north of Rome were just called "Germania". There was Gallia, Hispania, Britannia etc etc etc.

Please, germans a distinct group of people? :24:

 

[retro]

AEF is a google warrior

 

[All Else Failed]

Please, germans a distinct group of people? :24:

Seeing as how they all migrated from the same region and set up camp in central Europe the same language (with a few minor differences between regions) and cultural practices, yes.

and lets not just get stuck in ancient times, either. Even before German unification, the fractured Germanic lands in more "contemporary" days were mostly uniquely German.


and way to ignore the rest of my post.

AEF is a google warrior

Orrrrrr I was a European history major in my undergrad. You know, we studied these things.


Everything I have said so far was from books that I have kept from all of my classes. I don't really trust google.

 

[retro]

Orrrrrr I was a European history major in my undergrad. You know, we studied these things.


Everything I have said so far was from books that I have kept from all of my classes. I don't really trust google.

Then it would appear that you didn't do a particularly good job of paying attention. :shrug:

 

[All Else Failed]

Then it would appear that you didn't do a particularly good job of paying attention. :shrug:

Well that was cute, but I'm right about this.


There is a difference between being ethnic German and just being a German citizen.