Alcoholics Anonymous

[The Doc]

No, I think you just love talking to people who have the maturity and life experience of high schoolers...lol in your oppinion. You can learn a thing or two from me. You just need to humble up a little. In Terms of employment i have a job that less then 1% of the country does, or even could do. But regardless, relax. I never cared about your "life experience" majority of america goes through marriage, home ownership, parenting, obtaining employment (Done this one though), being unemployed (This one too). Shit, my parents have done that, and I will too eventually. Its expected. But being in combat is unique, less then 1% of Americans can say they have engaged in combat. At the end of the day though, I will survive much longer then you will. I can take apart and put together, service and clean every weapon used by the military today. I can march up mountains, have great marksmanship and am very physically fit. I shit in holes then dig them back up, or shit in barrels and burn them at the end of the day. Go weeks without talking to my family. I sleep outside in the cold, and conduct patrols in the 120 degrees of summer. Go days without showers, and wear dirty blood stained clothes for days. Shit, sometimes we dont even eat if they cant manage to get us food. Gotten shot at, mortared, shot back the full 9 yards. Iev kept people alive, and at times got there too late in time for them to die with me standing over them. Put dead bodies in bags, Adults, Kid's, Soldiers etc.. I have done that, and dont wish you ever have to. I dont even like bragging about it to be honest, because its pitiful a human being has to go through it. But it has helped shape me into the Person I am today. I am one of many young soldiers serving today, and I cant let you take our experience, actions and professionalism from us... because at the end of the day you dont have what it takes to stand beside us.

 

[retro]

Go you?

 

[The Doc]

fuck yeah!

 

[MjaneGibson]

@Doc...I think you need to stop tooting your own horn. Like you said in an earlier post, "you don't know what I have been through." You have to trust that chances are, you are going to deal with things I won't, and I will deal with things that you never even thought existed too. It isn't fair to say that you will out live someone, or whatever. In fact, statistically, you probably won't live as long (post traumatic stress, not to mention if you get injured). Not trying to be a bitch, just saying. Also, you mention you go days without showering and what have you. You went through this because you CHOSE to go into the military. A lot of people don't get the option of whether or not they want to willingly give up showering, and get dirty, and fight. People all over the world deal with this, and let me tell you, you are the 1% of people who actually get paid for it. So, you're lucky.

All I'm saying is that the cock battle needs to stop. You cannot keep using the fact that you have had military training as a tool against everyone else who hasn't. Again, it was a choice. But, thank you. I expect that one day, when you are older, you will realize that you have others to thank as well...and that maybe, there are other people around you that have been through way worse than you can imagine. It's how the cookie crumbles.

 

[The Doc]

@Doc...I think you need to stop tooting your own horn. Like you said in an earlier post, "you don't know what I have been through." You have to trust that chances are, you are going to deal with things I won't, and I will deal with things that you never even thought existed too. It isn't fair to say that you will out live someone, or whatever. In fact, statistically, you probably won't live as long (post traumatic stress, not to mention if you get injured). Not trying to be a bitch, just saying. Also, you mention you go days without showering and what have you. You went through this because you CHOSE to go into the military. A lot of people don't get the option of whether or not they want to willingly give up showering, and get dirty, and fight. People all over the world deal with this, and let me tell you, you are the 1% of people who actually get paid for it. So, you're lucky.

All I'm saying is that the cock battle needs to stop. You cannot keep using the fact that you have had military training as a tool against everyone else who hasn't. Again, it was a choice. But, thank you. I expect that one day, when you are older, you will realize that you have others to thank as well...and that maybe, there are other people around you that have been through way worse than you can imagine. It's how the cookie crumbles.

Im in the 1% who gets paid todo that, your right. Look up how much I get paid and you will laugh your ass off. I made more money selling weed and shoes in high school. Im among the less then 1% that volunteered to do it.

The point isnt to brag, but when someone tries to dumb down our experiences i have to step in. Especially when you say combat doesnt count for life experience.

 

[MjaneGibson]

Im in the 1% who gets paid todo that, your right. Look up how much I get paid and you will laugh your ass off. I made more money selling weed and shoes in high school. Im among the less then 1% that volunteered to do it.

The point isnt to brag, but when someone tries to dumb down our experiences i have to step in. Especially when you say combat doesnt count for life experience.

I never said combat doesn't count for life experience...I am just saying it doesn't give you the best unbiased outlook on life and all its encounters. Also, I do think it's ridiculous how much people in the military get paid, especially when a pro athlete gets paid to play all day, make more money than probably 30 soldiers combined. You should def be paid more. But, again, you chose it. And thank you, for choosing it. Just realize that you are much different than most because of it, and that your views are skewed because they HAVE to be.

 

[The Doc]

You didnt say that, I know. Retro did. I was debating with him, then you hopped in for some reason. You dont need to thank me, just continue to pay your taxes. Appreciate it though.

 

[Minor Axis]

The point isnt to brag, but when someone tries to dumb down our experiences i have to step in. Especially when you say combat doesnt count for life experience.

The overall military experience (discipline, comradeship, attaining goals, managing people, etc) is a valuable life experience, however combat is a negative. You might get good at surviving in adverse situations, but combat harms every human being involved in it especially when framed within the ideal of living in (what we consider to be) a civilized society. (Yes there is violence, but it is not the goal or ideal of society.) You come back damaged in some way, shape or form. It's a testament to the individual's fortitude as to how well they handle the aftermath of emotional, and/or physical scares. Do you consider yourself better off or worse off for experiencing combat?

 

[The Doc]

The overall military experience (discipline, comradeship, attaining goals, managing people, etc) is a valuable life experience, however combat is a negative. You might get good at surviving in adverse situations, but combat harms every human being involved in it especially when framed within the ideal of living in (what we consider to be) a civilized society. (Yes there is violence, but it is not the goal or ideal of society.) You come back damaged in some way, shape or form. It's a testament to the individual's fortitude as to how well they handle the aftermath of emotional, and/or physical scares. Do you consider yourself better off or worse off for experiencing combat?

It all depends on the person, how resiliant they are etc... I had spent time in jail and a behavioral modification program. I was very used to being alone and away from my family. Blood, Amputations, death, kids, soldiers, Gun Shots, Artillary, IED's etc.. did all that. as did other medics and scouts in the squadron. Some of us were prepared for what we were going to encounter, other werent. Some of us have PTSD, some of us dont. PTSD really isnt too much for me, i dont have bad dreams or trip out like other people do. I do flip out when i hear loud noises, and brace for cover at bangs. Maybe down the road PTSD might kick in, maybe ill get nightmares and flashbacks later in life, but rightnow i dont have any, Thats about it. Most of all I learned how to survive. I learned to depend on the other soldiers in my platoon. We became family to each other. Never in my life did I ever trust many people, but in combat all you have is the guy to your left and right. We became family. I can tolerate the worst conditions now, I can shit in holes now when a couple years ago i wouldent ever walk within 50 feet of a porter potty. I used to be a picky eater, now i eat anything. I appreciate my parents alot more. My relationship with God has also become stronger. I also am alot stronger, due to the fact we have no recreational activities aside from lifting weights. I can and will survive, and adapt to any situation. I would say it is positive, because i appreciate life in general.. much more

 

[Minor Axis]

It all depends on the person, how resiliant they are etc... I had spent time in jail and a behavioral modification program. I was very used to being alone and away from my family. Blood, Amputations, death, kids, soldiers, Gun Shots, Artillary, IED's etc.. did all that. as did other medics and scouts in the squadron. Some of us were prepared for what we were going to encounter, other werent. Some of us have PTSD, some of us dont. PTSD really isnt too much for me, i dont have bad dreams or trip out like other people do. I do flip out when i hear loud noises, and brace for cover at bangs. Maybe down the road PTSD might kick in, maybe ill get nightmares and flashbacks later in life, but rightnow i dont have any, Thats about it. Most of all I learned how to survive. I learned to depend on the other soldiers in my platoon. We became family to each other. Never in my life did I ever trust many people, but in combat all you have is the guy to your left and right. We became family. I can tolerate the worst conditions now, I can shit in holes now when a couple years ago i wouldent ever walk within 50 feet of a porter potty. I used to be a picky eater, now i eat anything. I appreciate my parents alot more. My relationship with God has also become stronger. I also am alot stronger, due to the fact we have no recreational activities aside from lifting weights. I can and will survive, and adapt to any situation. I would say it is positive, because i appreciate life in general.. much more

I appreciate your service and thanks for reconfirming war damages human beings.

I'm pissed the soldiers were sent into a trumped up war to make neo-conservatives happy and generate windfall income for our patriotic contractors. The GOPpers love to give lip service to military personnel, just don't ask the tax payers to pay the soldier more, equip them properly, or take care of them adequately after being damaged because most of that goes to the big wheels (contractors). :mad

BTW, I am pissed that Obama did not keep his word regarding getting out of conflict. This war is the longest and most wasteful in U.S. history and is bankrupting the country. Before anyone feels like arguing the aspect of bankrupting ourselves for a "good cause", just answer: are we better off today because of it? You know I think not. Sorry to veer off subject.

 

[The Doc]

I appreciate your service and thanks for reconfirming war damages human beings.

I'm pissed the soldiers were sent into a trumped up war to make neo-conservatives happy and generate windfall income for our patriotic contractors. The GOPpers love to give lip service to military personnel, just don't ask the tax payers to pay the soldier more, equip them properly, or take care of them adequately after being damaged because most of that goes to the big wheels (contractors). :mad

BTW, I am pissed that Obama did not keep his word regarding getting out of conflict. This war is the longest and most wasteful in U.S. history and is bankrupting the country. Before anyone feels like arguing the aspect of bankrupting ourselves for a "good cause", just answer: are we better off today because of it? You know I think not. Sorry to veer off subject.

Heres what your not getting. 9/11 terrorist was commited by al-queda. The taliban was an extremist regime controlling afghanistan, who was very friendly to other islamic-terrorist orginizations and allowing theese orginizations to openly recruit and train in their country.

I went to bootcamp in Ft. Benning, Georgia. Thought i am from Maryland, the Department of the Army transported me to Ft Benning for training.

A terrorist (Al-queda) from, lets say Lebanon goes to terrorist basic training in Afghanistan. They are transported by the Taliban from lebanon, saudi arabia, sudan, pakistan etc.. to Afghanistan for terrorist basic training. This was known and allowed by the Taliban Government of Afghanistan. The 9/11 Terrorists, were trained in Afghanistan. The leader of al-queda was known to reside in Afghanistan at the time, (thought he was killed in Pakistan). If we did not intervence, then more terrorists could openly be trained in afghanistan and be used against the United States and the rest of the western world. Though the US provides the most troops in Afghanistan, it is a NA

 

[Minor Axis]

Heres what your not getting. 9/11 terrorist was commited by al-queda. The taliban was an extremist regime controlling afghanistan, who was very friendly to other islamic-terrorist orginizations and allowing theese orginizations to openly recruit and train in their country.

I went to bootcamp in Ft. Benning, Georgia. Thought i am from Maryland, the Department of the Army transported me to Ft Benning for training.

A terrorist (Al-queda) from, lets say Lebanon goes to terrorist basic training in Afghanistan. They are transported by the Taliban from lebanon, saudi arabia, sudan, pakistan etc.. to Afghanistan for terrorist basic training. This was known and allowed by the Taliban Government of Afghanistan. The 9/11 Terrorists, were trained in Afghanistan. The leader of al-queda was known to reside in Afghanistan at the time, (thought he was killed in Pakistan). If we did not intervence, then more terrorists could openly be trained in afghanistan and be used against the United States and the rest of the western world. Though the US provides the most troops in Afghanistan, it is a NA

I get and understand our history in the conflict. I supported action in Afganistan against AlQueda. Then we pulled out and wasted trillions in Iraq, total stupidity. Now we are back in Afganistan. But here is the point, you may or may not understand. As things are going, BinLaden gets the last laugh. He initiated events causing us to bankrupt ourselves by launching into a never ending war/occupation. If we don't get our bearings soon, he'll be the winner and we will be a broken country. Simply speaking, these people can afford to out wait us. They have been doing it since the Russian occupation.

 

[The Doc]

I get and understand our history in the conflict. I supported action in Afganistan against AlQueda. Then we pulled out and wasted trillions in Iraq, total stupidity. Now we are back in Afganistan. But here is the point, you may or may not understand. As things are going, BinLaden gets the last laugh. He initiated events causing us to bankrupt ourselves by launching into a never ending war/occupation. If we don't get our bearings soon, he'll be the winner and we will be a broken country. Simply speaking, these people can afford to out wait us. They have been doing it since the Russian occupation.

\\

Back to afghanistan? We have been there since 2000 no breaks. 11 years OEF has been happening. I think physical protection is worth more then your finances. We pull out of afghanistan, some terrorist crash a plane into your apartment building. Kills your whole family. Your finances dont mean shit when your dead.

 

[MoonOwl]

:horse:horse:horse:horse

 

[MjaneGibson]

:horse:horse:horse:horse

:clap:24::clap:24::clap:24:

 

[Minor Axis]

\\

Back to afghanistan? We have been there since 2000 no breaks. 11 years OEF has been happening. I think physical protection is worth more then your finances. We pull out of afghanistan, some terrorist crash a plane into your apartment building. Kills your whole family. Your finances dont mean shit when your dead.

This is a myopic view, but I'm done hijacking this thread to talk about stupid, disastrous, self destructive U.S. policies.

 

[doombug]

I've read a good bit of this thread and would only like to add my 2 cents. I know some things about the subject and only offer my opinion based on my experience and what I have learned.

It is believed by many there are 3 broken relationships that need mending when it comes to addiction:

1) A person's relationship with themselves.
2) A person's relationship with other people.
3) A person's relationship with God. Not a religious God, a spiritual God.

From what I have seen I believe this to be true.

If an alcoholic "works the steps" then these three relationships can be mended making recovery possible.
I also believe many addicts need help from a professional as well. The physical aspects of addiction can be more than someone can take without professional help. Sometimes addicts need as much help and support as they can get but unless they want sobriety for themselves it won't work.

 

[Peter Parka]

3) A person's relationship with God. Not a religious God, a spiritual God.

It's hard to mend a relationship with someone who there is no proof of even existing. Just saying.

 

[doombug]

It's hard to mend a relationship with someone who there is no proof of even existing. Just saying.

True and why AA isn't for everyone but since addiction has been referred to as spiritual bankruptcy this seems to be an important step in the process of the program.

 

[hart]

Addiction as a spiritual bankruptcy.........So would all atheists be addicts?:sarcasm