Alcoholics Anonymous

[MjaneGibson]

@ Doc...it appears to me you are more concerned with how people perceive you rather than how things actually are. if you cried for a week straight because you felt you needed to, then who the hell cares if someone thinks you're a pussy? You have a case of the "I'm a man and I'll be damned if anyone think otherwise" syndrome. Stop caring so much and maybe you will change your mind?

 

[retro]

@ Doc...it appears to me you are more concerned with how people perceive you rather than how things actually are. if you cried for a week straight because you felt you needed to, then who the hell cares if someone thinks you're a pussy? You have a case of the "I'm a man and I'll be damned if anyone think otherwise" syndrome. Stop caring so much and maybe you will change your mind?

this...

 

[Joe the meek]

Haha i only been 21 for like 3 months. Still in the enjoyment phase LOL. I am not going to re-enlist, unless i can get a job back home as a Corporal Recruiter, or working at MEPS by my home.

Get back to me when you're 30 and a civilian for for a couple of years.

 

[The Doc]

Matter of interpretation I guess.

No i think i beat you there, no matter how you interprete that.

@ Doc...it appears to me you are more concerned with how people perceive you rather than how things actually are. if you cried for a week straight because you felt you needed to, then who the hell cares if someone thinks you're a pussy? You have a case of the "I'm a man and I'll be damned if anyone think otherwise" syndrome. Stop caring so much and maybe you will change your mind?

Guys who cry and talk about their feelings are psycologically weak, most apt to feel bad about killing or having nightmares etc.. you dont want that guy fighting next to you because he might freeze up during a fire fight. (I have seen a soldier just burst into tears and throw her weapon down in a firefight; because she was weak and someone allowed her to leave the wire). You show signs your un-resiliant, you dont get picked for patrols and missions. Your filling the sand bags or burning the barrel we shit in. Your not going on missions, your not getting any awards.. which means your not going to get promoted. Thats how it works. Thats why we dont talk about or feelings, or cry or any pussy shit like that.

 

[anathelia]

This isn't a competition.

You are entitled to your opinion. And if you think that you're no longer an addict just because you never actually touch the stuff, that's fine. Not everyone feels that way. Why does everything have to be a competition with you?

 

[MjaneGibson]

No i think i beat you there, no matter how you interprete that.



Guys who cry and talk about their feelings are psycologically weak, most apt to feel bad about killing or having nightmares etc.. you dont want that guy fighting next to you because he might freeze up during a fire fight. (I have seen a soldier just burst into tears and throw her weapon down in a firefight; because she was weak and someone allowed her to leave the wire). You show signs your un-resiliant, you dont get picked for patrols and missions. Your filling the sand bags or burning the barrel we shit in. Your not going on missions, your not getting any awards.. which means your not going to get promoted. Thats how it works. Thats why we dont talk about or feelings, or cry or any pussy shit like that.

I am not talking about combat here. I am talking about LIFE as a whole. Obviously, no one would want the man they have to fight with to be huddled in a corner crying. But what if the soldier that took a bullet for you, or the guy that risked his own existence to go back and find his missing friend, decided that they had a problem? What if, after all of the shit he's been through, he goes and sits down and talks to a couple of people, IN A CIRCLE (you really have to get passed this circle thing...), and talks about how he's feeling? Are you really going to say that THAT man, the same one who saved your life, is a pussy, because he can actually admit that despite his bravery, he was still impacted in a less than positive way?

 

[The Doc]

This isn't a competition.

You are entitled to your opinion. And if you think that you're no longer an addict just because you never actually touch the stuff, that's fine. Not everyone feels that way. Why does everything have to be a competition with you?

Well, to be addicted to something you have todo it. Im competitive, thats just who I am.

I am not talking about combat here. I am talking about LIFE as a whole. Obviously, no one would want the man they have to fight with to be huddled in a corner crying. But what if the soldier that took a bullet for you, or the guy that risked his own existence to go back and find his missing friend, decided that they had a problem? What if, after all of the shit he's been through, he goes and sits down and talks to a couple of people, IN A CIRCLE (you really have to get passed this circle thing...), and talks about how he's feeling? Are you really going to say that THAT man, the same one who saved your life, is a pussy, because he can actually admit that despite his bravery, he was still impacted in a less than positive way?

I have lost a couple close brothers. We sit in a square and talk about the person. One time, Uno. We dont meet up every week. He was a guy in our unit, we all feel the same. We dont talk about feelings.

 

[MjaneGibson]

Well, to be addicted to something you have todo it. Im competitive, thats just who I am.



I have lost a couple close brothers. We sit in a square and talk about the person. One time, Uno. We dont meet up every week. He was a guy in our unit, we all feel the same. We dont talk about feelings.

Sorry to hear about your brothers. I think it is safe to say that you don't have the same perspective as others because you rely so heavily on the military aspect of life...which, to an extent, is understandable. I just hope that one day, maybe further down the line, you'll realize that you are simply a product of what you have been through...and that's okay. You don't have to agree, but judging is the issue.

 

[retro]

Addiction is a Verb, because it is an action.

Well, to be addicted to something you have todo it.

No, addiction is a noun.

[h=2]Definition of ADDICTION[/h]1
: the quality or state of being addicted <addiction to reading>

2
: compulsive need for and use of a habit-forming substance (as heroin, nicotine, or alcohol) characterized by tolerance and by well-defined physiological symptoms upon withdrawal;broadly : persistent compulsive use of a substance known by the user to be harmful

 

[retro]

Guys who cry and talk about their feelings are psycologically weak, most apt to feel bad about killing or having nightmares etc..

Could you please provide proof for that statements... either via research studies or the documented professional opinions of mental health professionals. No, your opinion as an EMT does not count as a professional one.

 

[The Doc]

Sorry to hear about your brothers. I think it is safe to say that you don't have the same perspective as others because you rely so heavily on the military aspect of life...which, to an extent, is understandable. I just hope that one day, maybe further down the line, you'll realize that you are simply a product of what you have been through...and that's okay. You don't have to agree, but judging is the issue.

Yeah, and sorry if my oppinions sometime offend you. Im really not trying todo that. I notice that usually what i think is the opposite from what everyone else is. What some people fail to realize sometimes is the Army is my life. I live in the barracks, Eat at the Difac, and can see where i work out the window from my barracks room..lol I guess i can understand why people do some things, but I cant ever see myself doing those things. When you work with all males, and especially if its a hard labor or combat related job theres a pecking order, if you understand what I mean. Similar to a gang mentality (Not a gang, but a gang MENTALITY). To earn respect you have todo certain things, to maintain it you have to continue to do things. Its part of the acceptance or rights of passage. Doing things 'feminine' i.e. Homosexuality, talking about feelings, crying, etc.. can make you lose all the credibility you work so hard to gain. When you start complaining or crying you become a 'bitch' and thats a tough label to get rid of. As a medic, i am 'Doc', but if i start slacking i become 'Bandaid". Its a whole-nother culture. You have to keep fighting and never show any hint of fear. Thats how you move up. The life i live isnt a natural one, lol.

No, addiction is a noun.

Definition of ADDICTION

1
: the quality or state of being addicted <addiction to reading>

2
: compulsive need for and use of a habit-forming substance (as heroin, nicotine, or alcohol) characterized by tolerance and by well-defined physiological symptoms upon withdrawal;broadly : persistent compulsive use of a substance known by the user to be harmful

Could you please provide proof for that statements... either via research studies or the documented professional opinions of mental health professionals. No, your opinion as an EMT does not count as a professional one.

Ok then Addicted is a verb. My bad. I doubt anyone studied combat psycology, hell they might i never looked. Regardless im posting from experience. Not in the standpoint of an EMT or a Medic, but from being a soldier. I have learned that from being a soldier and watching others around me. If you dont believe me ask around. Dont ask Airforce or Navy guys because they dont do ground combat. And dont ask Army and Marine POGS who do desk jobs or work in signal or support. Ask an Infantryman, Mortarmen, Cavalry Scouts, Field Artillary guys, Tankers. They know what true combat is.

 

[retro]

Ok then Addicted is a verb. My bad. I doubt anyone studied combat psycology, hell they might i never looked. Regardless im posting from experience. Not in the standpoint of an EMT or a Medic, but from being a soldier. I have learned that from being a soldier and watching others around me. If you dont believe me ask around. Dont ask Airforce or Navy guys because they dont do ground combat. And dont ask Army and Marine POGS who do desk jobs or work in signal or support. Ask an Infantryman, Mortarmen, Cavalry Scouts, Field Artillary guys, Tankers. They know what true combat is.

No, addicted is an adjective... a word that modifies a noun. It still isn't an action.

If there are no studies or other mental health professional opinions, then what you're saying is quite frankly a load of crap. It's the opinion of a combat EMT that is biased towards the situation. Now, as far as asking soldiers... one of my best friends from high school has spent about 75% of the last 8 years in Iraq and Afghanistan... he's a 19K (gun operator) on an M1A1, and served in that capacity in Iraq. He's now in Afghanistan operating light armor (since heavy armor is relatively non-existent there). I know for a fact that he has no issue expressing his feelings, while still performing his job duties at a very high level. I have another friend that was Marine infantry in Iraq for nearly his entire 4 year career... the same thing goes with him about expressing his feelings. Those two are quite possibly the toughest SOBs I've ever met.

I have another friend that was in the Navy, ooh big deal you might say... except for the part where he made it through the the INDOC period of BUD/S, made it through hell week, but finally had to ring the bell after three straight days of being nearly too sick to walk. He decided not to go back a second time because at that point he had met his future wife and decided being a SEAL wasn't for him if he wanted to have a family. Again, he's one of the toughest people I know... no problem expressing his feelings.

Finally, a family friend of mine was in Iraq at 19, already an E-4, stationed at Forward Operating Base Kalsu. During a mortar attack, he had the courage and balls needed to not only save the lives of his men, making sure that they got to safety, but also a group of Iraqi civilian contractors that were scared shitless and couldn't move because of it. Right as he got them to safety, a third mortar hit and he was killed by the shrapnel from that blast... he was posthumously awarded the Bronze Star with Valor. I didn't know him well... but he was a lay pastor at the age of 16, before enlisting in the Army... I heard him speak on two separate occasions, and he also had no problem expressing his feelings... and paid for his courage and valor with his life.

Perhaps you understand the point by now... being able to express your feelings, even in a group setting, doesn't make you a pussy, nor does it make you psychologically weak... it makes you human.

 

[Minor Axis]

@ Doc...it appears to me you are more concerned with how people perceive you rather than how things actually are. if you cried for a week straight because you felt you needed to, then who the hell cares if someone thinks you're a pussy? You have a case of the "I'm a man and I'll be damned if anyone think otherwise" syndrome. Stop caring so much and maybe you will change your mind?

Incredibly well said! So for the purpose of self esteem, some might feel it is better to hide the possibility that others may perceive you as a pussy, than to make yourself vulnerable to the disdain (or positive reinforcement) of a group. And due to a possibly uncomfortable admission, refusing to accept this as an avenue to resolve negative feelings about ones self?

 

[MjaneGibson]

Incredibly well said! So for the purpose of self esteem, some might feel it is better to hide the possibility that others may perceive you as a pussy, than to make yourself vulnerable to the disdain (or positive reinforcement) of a group. And due to a possibly uncomfortable admission, refusing to accept this as an avenue to resolve negative feelings about ones self?

Exactly. The reason I have such an issue with people being perceived as being weak, or inadequate or what have you, is because you never know when someone is making that last attempt to be heard. It makes me crazy to think that anyone, Doc included, would feel so strongly about what other people think. We are who we are, we always will be, so why are we trying to hide? By admitting that you may have a problem, or seeking out help, you are not only proving to others that you are STRONG, but more importantly, it should be evident to yourself. I think people underestimate how hard it really is to say, "hey, I am not doing okay, and I need someone to talk to."

 

[Joe the meek]

Yeah, and sorry if my oppinions sometime offend you. Im really not trying todo that. I notice that usually what i think is the opposite from what everyone else is. What some people fail to realize sometimes is the Army is my life. I live in the barracks, Eat at the Difac, and can see where i work out the window from my barracks room..lol I guess i can understand why people do some things, but I cant ever see myself doing those things. When you work with all males, and especially if its a hard labor or combat related job theres a pecking order, if you understand what I mean. Similar to a gang mentality (Not a gang, but a gang MENTALITY). To earn respect you have todo certain things, to maintain it you have to continue to do things. Its part of the acceptance or rights of passage. Doing things 'feminine' i.e. Homosexuality, talking about feelings, crying, etc.. can make you lose all the credibility you work so hard to gain. When you start complaining or crying you become a 'bitch' and thats a tough label to get rid of. As a medic, i am 'Doc', but if i start slacking i become 'Bandaid". Its a whole-nother culture. You have to keep fighting and never show any hint of fear. Thats how you move up. The life i live isnt a natural one, lol.

What you fail to realize is that the issues normally don't happen when you're in, but when you get out and you don't live in that "culture" anymore.

I've got to ask, do they still give you the option of briefs and boxers when you hit basic? That was my first sign of "gang mentality" LMAO.

 

[The Doc]

No, addicted is an adjective... a word that modifies a noun. It still isn't an action.

If there are no studies or other mental health professional opinions, then what you're saying is quite frankly a load of crap. It's the opinion of a combat EMT that is biased towards the situation. Now, as far as asking soldiers... one of my best friends from high school has spent about 75% of the last 8 years in Iraq and Afghanistan... he's a 19K (gun operator) on an M1A1, and served in that capacity in Iraq. He's now in Afghanistan operating light armor (since heavy armor is relatively non-existent there). I know for a fact that he has no issue expressing his feelings, while still performing his job duties at a very high level. I have another friend that was Marine infantry in Iraq for nearly his entire 4 year career... the same thing goes with him about expressing his feelings. Those two are quite possibly the toughest SOBs I've ever met.

I have another friend that was in the Navy, ooh big deal you might say... except for the part where he made it through the the INDOC period of BUD/S, made it through hell week, but finally had to ring the bell after three straight days of being nearly too sick to walk. He decided not to go back a second time because at that point he had met his future wife and decided being a SEAL wasn't for him if he wanted to have a family. Again, he's one of the toughest people I know... no problem expressing his feelings.

Finally, a family friend of mine was in Iraq at 19, already an E-4, stationed at Forward Operating Base Kalsu. During a mortar attack, he had the courage and balls needed to not only save the lives of his men, making sure that they got to safety, but also a group of Iraqi civilian contractors that were scared shitless and couldn't move because of it. Right as he got them to safety, a third mortar hit and he was killed by the shrapnel from that blast... he was posthumously awarded the Bronze Star with Valor. I didn't know him well... but he was a lay pastor at the age of 16, before enlisting in the Army... I heard him speak on two separate occasions, and he also had no problem expressing his feelings... and paid for his courage and valor with his life.

Perhaps you understand the point by now... being able to express your feelings, even in a group setting, doesn't make you a pussy, nor does it make you psychologically weak... it makes you human.

First and foremost, Addicted is the past participle of the verb form of addict i.e
Verb. addict (third-person singular simple present addicts, present participle addicting, simple past and past participle addicted).

Second, a 19K is a tanker. They operate on bigger bases because they rely very heavily on support due to the fact you cant sling-load Abrams. Im inclined not to believe you here because you say he spent 75% of 8 years in Iraq? That means he spent 6/8 years in Iraq. We have something called dwell time, which your owed after a deployment so you cant deploy back to back. Its impossible to deploy someone that much, due to training, re-integrating SRP periods, and shuffeling of personell.

Sorry about your friend who died, welcome to the Army life. Friends start dying, and will continue to die. Thats life. They really fucked your boy over if he just got a bronze star w/ valor for that event. They give bronze stars to LT's who are paper pushers as end of tour awards. He should have recieved a silver star. You should fight that if you have the time.

Thats really cute your marine buddy likes to talk about his feelings, maybe the Jarheads like to sit in circles and talk about their feelings, but Grunts dont. Thats nice your friend tried out for the seals, i have guys in my unit who have tried out and failed in RIP (Ranger indoctrination program) and Special Forces selection. I really dont understand why you mentioned a guy to me who failed seals.

Lol a biased Combat EMT. Its experience. I seen it. You havent. You can spout all the bullshit you want, and pretend like you know everything. But you dont.

Exactly. The reason I have such an issue with people being perceived as being weak, or inadequate or what have you, is because you never know when someone is making that last attempt to be heard. It makes me crazy to think that anyone, Doc included, would feel so strongly about what other people think. We are who we are, we always will be, so why are we trying to hide? By admitting that you may have a problem, or seeking out help, you are not only proving to others that you are STRONG, but more importantly, it should be evident to yourself. I think people underestimate how hard it really is to say, "hey, I am not doing okay, and I need someone to talk to."

Yeah, it does matter what people think. If your NCO's think your pussy, your probly not going to get promoted any time soon.

What you fail to realize is that the issues normally don't happen when you're in, but when you get out and you don't live in that "culture" anymore.

I've got to ask, do they still give you the option of briefs and boxers when you hit basic? That was my first sign of "gang mentality" LMAO.

We all got Tan underwear, no choices... atleast at ft benning

 

[Minor Axis]

Exactly. The reason I have such an issue with people being perceived as being weak, or inadequate or what have you, is because you never know when someone is making that last attempt to be heard. It makes me crazy to think that anyone, Doc included, would feel so strongly about what other people think. We are who we are, we always will be, so why are we trying to hide? By admitting that you may have a problem, or seeking out help, you are not only proving to others that you are STRONG, but more importantly, it should be evident to yourself. I think people underestimate how hard it really is to say, "hey, I am not doing okay, and I need someone to talk to."

I mean, "Pity Party" what a degrading disdainful demeaning term. There is weakness associated with it, as if understanding, sympathy (as in sympathetic not pity), comradire, an realization of shared experiences and pain, and the expression of feelings and self doubt is a BAD thing. Sure keep up a stiff upper lip for the subordinates. So what if you blow your brains out in six months. :sarcasm (sad sarcasm)

 

[retro]

I give up, there's no point in trying to have an intelligent discussion with someone with the maturity level and life experience of a high school kid. :dunno

 

[The Doc]

I mean, "Pity Party" what a degrading disdainful demeaning term. There is weakness associated with it, as if understanding, sympathy (as in sympathetic not pity), comradire, an realization of shared experiences and pain, and the expression of feelings and self doubt is a BAD thing. Sure keep up a stiff upper lip for the subordinates. So what if you blow your brains out in six months. :sarcasm (sad sarcasm)

Yeah, people commit suicide alot in the Army. The 101st Airborne actually leads the Military in suicides. If you blow your brains out, your family wont get a penny of your 400,000 dollar life insurance.

I give up, there's no point in trying to have an intelligent discussion with someone with the maturity level and life experience of a high school kid. :dunno

Whatever you say buddy. You dont need to be a sore loser when you lose an argument. Its alright, you win some you lose some. Lol Life experience of a high school kid. Im sorry i didnt go through your 'Psycological Hell'. Lol

 

[retro]

Whatever you say buddy. You dont need to be a sore loser when you lose an argument. Its alright, you win some you lose some. Lol Life experience of a high school kid. Im sorry i didnt go through your 'Psycological Hell'. Lol

:24: :24: :24: :24: :24:

Good God, I was going to leave you alone, and then you drop that? You won this argument? In what parallel universe did that happen? I may not have been in the military, but I sure as fuck have more experience in life than you do, if based only by age... not to mention actual responsibilities, marriage, home ownership, parenting, obtaining employment, being unemployed, etc., etc., etc. Honestly, you'd have better luck with this if you just admitted that you're wrong and out of line and kept your mouth shut from here on out.