Alabama's new immigration law

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Tangerine

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The amount of totally false information that people have come to accept as truth about this topic is mind boggling to me. Let me clear up a few of those for you:

1) Most illegals work under the table for cash money. Hugely false. The vast majority are on payrolls somewhere. It's not possible to have someone on a payroll and NOT deduct federal taxes, state taxes where they exist, FICA and all of the other goodies. ALL of this money is deducted from checks of millions of workers, and those BILLIONS of dollars pour into the federal government streams - and virtually NONE of it will ever be refunded, repayed, or claimed as benefits by the people who paid in. Does this begin to answer the question of why the federal government REALLY doesn't want to get these people "out of the shadows."

2) There is no such thing as an "anchor baby." If you are in this country illegally, and you have a child, that child is automatically an American citizen as defined in the Constitution. However, that in NO WAY changes the status of the parents. They are still illegal, and could be deported just as easily as is they did not have a child. NO rights are granted to parents by having a child here. And IF the parents were to be deported, the child would then become a ward of the state and placed into the foster care system, and the government would be 100% responsible for the cost of their care and well being. Makes me wonder why there would be such a rush to deport working, taxpaying parents who are supporting their children and remove not only their contribution to the economy, but ADD to the burden of taxpayers raising the child.

3) Most illegals didn't come here the way they did because they wanted to AVOID the legal way, they came here that way because NO OTHER WAY TO COME HERE EXISTS. Take a quick peek at the US ICE website and read about what types of LEGAL immigration exist. Unless you have an immediate family member who is a Citizen who will sponsor you, which then puts you on a waiting list of 7-10 years for a potential VISA application, you cannot come to the US simply to work in a labor jobs. There are special exception work VISAs, but they are only available in extremely limited numbers for people highly specialized fields. These are the types of VISAs that professional athletes, actors, musicians etc get to be allowed to be in the US and earn money while they are here. There is also the 9-month seasonal work VISA program, designed primarily for agricultral labor. These people are allowed to come in groups to sponsored jobs - i.e. large industrial farms bring in hundreds of workers to pick a special crop for one season. Those people must leave the country no later than 9 months after they enter the country.

4) Companies generally don't hire illegals with the intention of driving down their labor cost. Instead, the labor cost is set by the market conditions, the jobs are opened, and whoever takes them at that pay rate is who gets them. I am a chef. My business nationwide probably has more illegal workers than any other. In the last five years, I have hired 7 dishwashers. I have never received one single application for these jobs from anyone who was not of Mexican decent. NOT ONE. And my company pays far better for these jobs than most others - about $9 an hour. Whoever takes the jobs gets the same money, no matter what color or nationality they are. I do not have the option of paying more without raising the prices on our menu to offset the cost increase. THAT is the way general labor works. For some, I think they believe there is a large pile of dollars on the floor in the bosses office, and he is hoarding them all for himself by hiring Mexicans - and if he was forced to pay someone more he would simply give up some of his stash. That is so far from reality that it's laughable.

I don't understand why people think it's a BAD thing that people want to work here. Yes - THAT'S ALL THEY DO IS WORK. Isn't that what American's are supposed to do? Work and support themselves and the economy? The more they work, the LESS likely any person would be to need any type of handouts or assistance from the Government.

If the REAL concern is the "drain" to our economy, it's completely foolish to target the very people who are WORKING and contributing and supporting themselves. If you want to save money that people believe is being spent on illegals for hospitals, food stamps, etc - then place the barriers THERE. Require e-verify when checking in at the doctors office - not when showing up trying to earn a living to support yourself and your family.
 
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All Else Failed

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I don't understand why people think it's a BAD thing that people want to work here. Yes - THAT'S ALL THEY DO IS WORK. Isn't that what American's are supposed to do? Work and support themselves and the economy? The more they work, the LESS likely any person would be to need any type of handouts or assistance from the Government.
Oh, do they?



All this debate is all for naught because the fact that they are illegal overrides everything else they do. If you want the south swamped by third worlders be my guest.
 

Tangerine

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You do realize that being in the US illegally is a class B misdemeanor? The crime they are guilty of carries pretty much the same weight under the law as a moving traffic violation.

If we want to deport people to clear out the uneducated riff-raff who doesn't want to work and will drain our resources for a life time, we should start in our own ghettos and white-trash neighborhoods. Those are the people I want out of my country. I'll take people willing to work 2 jobs to feed their family ANY day of the week. I don't give a flying fuck where they were born.

Clearly you simply only see the fact that they don't look like you or talk like you so they are "third worlders". Not exactly a position arrived at from a point of intellectual insight.
 

Dana

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You do realize that being in the US illegally is a class B misdemeanor? The crime they are guilty of carries pretty much the same weight under the law as a moving traffic violation.

If we want to deport people to clear out the uneducated riff-raff who doesn't want to work and will drain our resources for a life time, we should start in our own ghettos and white-trash neighborhoods. Those are the people I want out of my country. I'll take people willing to work 2 jobs to feed their family ANY day of the week. I don't give a flying fuck where they were born.

Clearly you simply only see the fact that they don't look like you or talk like you so they are "third worlders". Not exactly a position arrived at from a point of intellectual insight.
I don't even know where to start with this... im kind of dumbfounded
 

All Else Failed

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You do realize that being in the US illegally is a class B misdemeanor? The crime they are guilty of carries pretty much the same weight under the law as a moving traffic violation.

If we want to deport people to clear out the uneducated riff-raff who doesn't want to work and will drain our resources for a life time, we should start in our own ghettos and white-trash neighborhoods. Those are the people I want out of my country. I'll take people willing to work 2 jobs to feed their family ANY day of the week. I don't give a flying fuck where they were born.

Clearly you simply only see the fact that they don't look like you or talk like you so they are "third worlders". Not exactly a position arrived at from a point of intellectual insight.
Yes, and that is a sign we do not take it seriously enough.

You're aware that large parts of Mexico (read: most of the country) are considered third world war-zones, correct? Mexico is largely lost. Why would we want those same people who can't hold their country together here?

I can't blame them for wanting to come here, but at the end of the day all we are doing is taking on a burden. Massive amounts of non-English speaking, largely uneducated people flooding in by the millions *undocumented* will forever displace established, local culture of border states. There is a reason why a lot of people are fleeing California.


I'm sort of waiting on evidence that all of them come here to work. It is funny because all of these determined, will-work-for-anything-all-day, two to three job people you speak of stopped coming to the country in record numbers when our economy started to seriously tank. They prefer staying poor in their cesspool of a country rather than come and and try to work, it seems.
 
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Tangerine

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Or possible they stopped coming when the econmy tanked because there were not as many jobs readily available. Maybe it wasn't worth the insane amounts of money and life-threatening risks many took to get here.

I can't believe you only see immigrants as a burden. I wonder how many immigrants you actually know a first-name basis and know anything about their actual lives or circumstances? Or do you simply not care just because "they are illegal and nothing else matters?"
 

retro

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3) Most illegals didn't come here the way they did because they wanted to AVOID the legal way, they came here that way because NO OTHER WAY TO COME HERE EXISTS. Take a quick peek at the US ICE website and read about what types of LEGAL immigration exist. Unless you have an immediate family member who is a Citizen who will sponsor you, which then puts you on a waiting list of 7-10 years for a potential VISA application, you cannot come to the US simply to work in a labor jobs. There are special exception work VISAs, but they are only available in extremely limited numbers for people highly specialized fields. These are the types of VISAs that professional athletes, actors, musicians etc get to be allowed to be in the US and earn money while they are here. There is also the 9-month seasonal work VISA program, designed primarily for agricultral labor. These people are allowed to come in groups to sponsored jobs - i.e. large industrial farms bring in hundreds of workers to pick a special crop for one season. Those people must leave the country no later than 9 months after they enter the country.


4) Companies generally don't hire illegals with the intention of driving down their labor cost. Instead, the labor cost is set by the market conditions, the jobs are opened, and whoever takes them at that pay rate is who gets them. I am a chef. My business nationwide probably has more illegal workers than any other. In the last five years, I have hired 7 dishwashers. I have never received one single application for these jobs from anyone who was not of Mexican decent. NOT ONE. And my company pays far better for these jobs than most others - about $9 an hour. Whoever takes the jobs gets the same money, no matter what color or nationality they are. I do not have the option of paying more without raising the prices on our menu to offset the cost increase. THAT is the way general labor works. For some, I think they believe there is a large pile of dollars on the floor in the bosses office, and he is hoarding them all for himself by hiring Mexicans - and if he was forced to pay someone more he would simply give up some of his stash. That is so far from reality that it's laughable.

The problem is that most of them don't leave after their 9 month VISA expires.... they stick around, and then wait for their harvest time to come around again. While this happens, there are many ways for them to gain publicly funded benefits such as welfare, health care, etc. Then when it comes time to harvest again, the work force is too large to handle the amount of jobs that are available. When that happens (as has been very evident in this area), people that are here legally (citizens, green cards, etc) end up getting fucked over because undocumented workers are more than willing to work for less than the prevailing wage.

Then you have to consider the fact that a very large number of these undocumented/illegal workers then send a significant portion of their pay back to Mexico for their families to spend. So even on the chance that the employer is paying some or all of the taxes for their workers (which doesn't always happen), the money that the workers earn doesn't end up going back into the local economy, or a large portion of it doesn't anyway.

Talk to legal immigrants in my area.... a good 90% of them will tell you that they have serious issues with people coming here legally. It's an insult to those that immigrated legally, they inflate the workforce and make it more difficult for them to find jobs, and they end up being a leech on society... either directly or indirectly. Then, going back to the original point of this thread... there's the issue of schools.

As of 2004, illegal immigrants cost the state of California $10.5 billion per year. $7.7 billion of that was on spending for the children of illegal immigrants to go to school in a public school district... they constituted approximately 15% of the total student body. $1.4 billion was spent on providing state funded health care benefits to illegal immigrants and their families, and an additional $1.4 billion on incarceration of illegal immigrants that have committed crimes while here. Those numbers have only gone up in the last 7 years. My county has the highest unemployment rate in the entire state, and the surrounding counties are only behind by fractions of percentage points. The last I checked, our unemployment was 18.7%, and a large portion of that is due to undocumented workers. I don't have the time or energy to go into all of the history and issues that surround the problems that are occurring here in our local economy in regards to agriculture... as it would take an entire thread all on its own.

Until you live in a state and an area that is significantly impacted by illegal immigration, I would suggest that you don't act as through you know all of the facts. The opinion that you and Tim seem to have is that there's no problem with illegal immigration... they're just here to work, so they should be left alone. I say that's bullshit. There are plenty of people that are here to work, that live in this country legally (either on green cards or as citizens) and they have serious issues finding work because of the scarcity of it, and the significant population of illegal immigrants that have inflated the workforce.

The way that things may work in Atlanta in regards to illegal immigrants working is far different than the way that it works here in Central California.
 

Zorak

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You do realize that being in the US illegally is a class B misdemeanor? The crime they are guilty of carries pretty much the same weight under the law as a moving traffic violation.

If we want to deport people to clear out the uneducated riff-raff who doesn't want to work and will drain our resources for a life time, we should start in our own ghettos and white-trash neighborhoods. Those are the people I want out of my country. I'll take people willing to work 2 jobs to feed their family ANY day of the week. I don't give a flying fuck where they were born.

Clearly you simply only see the fact that they don't look like you or talk like you so they are "third worlders". Not exactly a position arrived at from a point of intellectual insight.

:homo:

:thumbup
 

Panacea

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4) Companies generally don't hire illegals with the intention of driving down their labor cost. Instead, the labor cost is set by the market conditions, the jobs are opened, and whoever takes them at that pay rate is who gets them. I am a chef. My business nationwide probably has more illegal workers than any other. In the last five years, I have hired 7 dishwashers. I have never received one single application for these jobs from anyone who was not of Mexican decent. NOT ONE. And my company pays far better for these jobs than most others - about $9 an hour. Whoever takes the jobs gets the same money, no matter what color or nationality they are. I do not have the option of paying more without raising the prices on our menu to offset the cost increase. THAT is the way general labor works. For some, I think they believe there is a large pile of dollars on the floor in the bosses office, and he is hoarding them all for himself by hiring Mexicans - and if he was forced to pay someone more he would simply give up some of his stash. That is so far from reality that it's laughable.

Speaking for my father's restaurant alone, I have to say the bolded part is reality. Hell, I've almost seen him do this :p He is a very very wealthy man, an immigrant himself by way of Italy for the past 40 years, and he has openly stated he hires illegals to save money. I think it's a two way street in regards to the reason people come here illegally and I don't see as many people recognizing that as they should.

I don't understand why people think it's a BAD thing that people want to work here. Yes - THAT'S ALL THEY DO IS WORK. Isn't that what American's are supposed to do? Work and support themselves and the economy? The more they work, the LESS likely any person would be to need any type of handouts or assistance from the Government.

My purpose in saying they often work many jobs is simply to point out that is the reason they are here, not to say it is inherently bad they do. If people are so offended that Mexicans come to America (illegally) to work, take it up with the people who hire them, not their children.
 

Panacea

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You do realize that being in the US illegally is a class B misdemeanor? The crime they are guilty of carries pretty much the same weight under the law as a moving traffic violation.

If we want to deport people to clear out the uneducated riff-raff who doesn't want to work and will drain our resources for a life time, we should start in our own ghettos and white-trash neighborhoods. Those are the people I want out of my country. I'll take people willing to work 2 jobs to feed their family ANY day of the week. I don't give a flying fuck where they were born.

Clearly you simply only see the fact that they don't look like you or talk like you so they are "third worlders". Not exactly a position arrived at from a point of intellectual insight.

I agree with this. I know it's an extremely unpopular position to take openly, especially for someone who doesn't live in the Southern US, and it's considered anti-American (I think I ranted to my boyfriend about it seeming as though you're raping an eagle and pissing into the dead eyes of Ronald Reagan but I digress...) but this is as much a cultural fear issue as it is a legal issue. That needs to be accepted.
 

BadBoy

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The amount of totally false information that people have come to accept as truth about this topic is mind boggling to me. Let me clear up a few of those for you:

1) Most illegals work under the table for cash money. Hugely false. The vast majority are on payrolls somewhere. It's not possible to have someone on a payroll and NOT deduct federal taxes, state taxes where they exist, FICA and all of the other goodies. ALL of this money is deducted from checks of millions of workers, and those BILLIONS of dollars pour into the federal government streams - and virtually NONE of it will ever be refunded, repayed, or claimed as benefits by the people who paid in. Does this begin to answer the question of why the federal government REALLY doesn't want to get these people "out of the shadows."

2) There is no such thing as an "anchor baby." If you are in this country illegally, and you have a child, that child is automatically an American citizen as defined in the Constitution. However, that in NO WAY changes the status of the parents. They are still illegal, and could be deported just as easily as is they did not have a child. NO rights are granted to parents by having a child here. And IF the parents were to be deported, the child would then become a ward of the state and placed into the foster care system, and the government would be 100% responsible for the cost of their care and well being. Makes me wonder why there would be such a rush to deport working, taxpaying parents who are supporting their children and remove not only their contribution to the economy, but ADD to the burden of taxpayers raising the child.

3) Most illegals didn't come here the way they did because they wanted to AVOID the legal way, they came here that way because NO OTHER WAY TO COME HERE EXISTS. Take a quick peek at the US ICE website and read about what types of LEGAL immigration exist. Unless you have an immediate family member who is a Citizen who will sponsor you, which then puts you on a waiting list of 7-10 years for a potential VISA application, you cannot come to the US simply to work in a labor jobs. There are special exception work VISAs, but they are only available in extremely limited numbers for people highly specialized fields. These are the types of VISAs that professional athletes, actors, musicians etc get to be allowed to be in the US and earn money while they are here. There is also the 9-month seasonal work VISA program, designed primarily for agricultral labor. These people are allowed to come in groups to sponsored jobs - i.e. large industrial farms bring in hundreds of workers to pick a special crop for one season. Those people must leave the country no later than 9 months after they enter the country.

4) Companies generally don't hire illegals with the intention of driving down their labor cost. Instead, the labor cost is set by the market conditions, the jobs are opened, and whoever takes them at that pay rate is who gets them. I am a chef. My business nationwide probably has more illegal workers than any other. In the last five years, I have hired 7 dishwashers. I have never received one single application for these jobs from anyone who was not of Mexican decent. NOT ONE. And my company pays far better for these jobs than most others - about $9 an hour. Whoever takes the jobs gets the same money, no matter what color or nationality they are. I do not have the option of paying more without raising the prices on our menu to offset the cost increase. THAT is the way general labor works. For some, I think they believe there is a large pile of dollars on the floor in the bosses office, and he is hoarding them all for himself by hiring Mexicans - and if he was forced to pay someone more he would simply give up some of his stash. That is so far from reality that it's laughable.

I don't understand why people think it's a BAD thing that people want to work here. Yes - THAT'S ALL THEY DO IS WORK. Isn't that what American's are supposed to do? Work and support themselves and the economy? The more they work, the LESS likely any person would be to need any type of handouts or assistance from the Government.

If the REAL concern is the "drain" to our economy, it's completely foolish to target the very people who are WORKING and contributing and supporting themselves. If you want to save money that people believe is being spent on illegals for hospitals, food stamps, etc - then place the barriers THERE. Require e-verify when checking in at the doctors office - not when showing up trying to earn a living to support yourself and your family.


This country was built on the back of immigrants. However, that time has come and gone. We no longer have the room nor the money to take in any more people. You do realize that for every illegal worker coming in and taking a job means that's one less AMERICAN citizen that can have a job? Are you saying that the American citizens that are already citizens should just accept the fact that illegals come here just to "work" and take jobs away from them? You must be in a job where this is not a threat to you, I am, but still am disgusted that the liberals of this country feel that we should just open up the gates into our country and let everyone come in and get their slice of the pie. Here's a newsflash, there is no pie left.

I don't give two shits if the illegals are here, obtaining fake credentials and paying into taxes. That's the price you pay for being in this great country ILLEGALLY. If you don't like it, there's always Canada. Maybe you can swim further to Europe, hell I don't know. An illegal citizen IS NOT entitled to US benefits regardless of whether or not they are paying into the tax base ILLEGALLY.
 

All Else Failed

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Or possible they stopped coming when the econmy tanked because there were not as many jobs readily available. Maybe it wasn't worth the insane amounts of money and life-threatening risks many took to get here.

I can't believe you only see immigrants as a burden. I wonder how many immigrants you actually know a first-name basis and know anything about their actual lives or circumstances? Or do you simply not care just because "they are illegal and nothing else matters?"
Yes, that is the point. There weren't as many jobs, but some people make Mexicans out to be these super workers that will take anything and work 2-3 jobs just to be in this country, when clearly they do not do that when things go bad. They'd rather stay in Mexico.


I'm not sure if it is of any use to know any illegals first hand. I won't be swayed by feelings when there are more important things to worry about.
 
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AUFred

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This country was built on the back of immigrants. However, that time has come and gone. We no longer have the room nor the money to take in any more people. You do realize that for every illegal worker coming in and taking a job means that's one less AMERICAN citizen that can have a job? Are you saying that the American citizens that are already citizens should just accept the fact that illegals come here just to "work" and take jobs away from them? You must be in a job where this is not a threat to you, I am, but still am disgusted that the liberals of this country feel that we should just open up the gates into our country and let everyone come in and get their slice of the pie. Here's a newsflash, there is no pie left.

I don't give two shits if the illegals are here, obtaining fake credentials and paying into taxes. That's the price you pay for being in this great country ILLEGALLY. If you don't like it, there's always Canada. Maybe you can swim further to Europe, hell I don't know. An illegal citizen IS NOT entitled to US benefits regardless of whether or not they are paying into the tax base ILLEGALLY.

Until this generation America was "The Melting Pot" people immigrated here with intentions of fitting in. They learned English and made every effort to be part of their communities. That is no longer the case. This generation expects they can come here and everything is suppose to be in Spanish to make it easier for them to do what they have to do. What I do know is locally many of the Hispanics are taking jobs no one wants to do. Roofers, gardeners, laborers & janitors & the like.
 

Panacea

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Yes, that is the point. There weren't as many jobs, but some people make Mexicans out to be these super workers that will take anything and work 2-3 jobs just to be in this country, when clearly they do not do that when things go bad. They'd rather stay in Mexico.

They come here to get jobs for a better life, if there are no jobs, why come? Makes sense to me!
US citizens are leaving the country for the same reason.
 

Panacea

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This generation expects they can come here and everything is suppose to be in Spanish to make it easier for them to do what they have to do.

I don't know if it's about expecting everything in spanish as some sort of entitlement or just not having the resources or need for the language. It's costly to enroll in english courses, they likely don't have the money, and no one is asking them to speak much in their labor jobs.
 

NuckingFuts

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What geet me is the fact that I can walk into a business and people could be speaking perfect english but when they see me they start speaking spanish. Thats fine that they dont want me to know what they are saying. But when I ask a question about something. They look at me like they don't understand.

Or how about this. I was in a grocery store checkout and the cashier was speaking nothing but spanish to me, and this was not a Mexican based store. I am clearly a white, white boy. That job could have went to a person who is Bilingual. Mexican or not.
 

Aries

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This country was built on the back of immigrants. However, that time has come and gone. We no longer have the room nor the money to take in any more people. You do realize that for every illegal worker coming in and taking a job means that's one less AMERICAN citizen that can have a job? Are you saying that the American citizens that are already citizens should just accept the fact that illegals come here just to "work" and take jobs away from them? You must be in a job where this is not a threat to you, I am, but still am disgusted that the liberals of this country feel that we should just open up the gates into our country and let everyone come in and get their slice of the pie. Here's a newsflash, there is no pie left.

I don't give two shits if the illegals are here, obtaining fake credentials and paying into taxes. That's the price you pay for being in this great country ILLEGALLY. If you don't like it, there's always Canada. Maybe you can swim further to Europe, hell I don't know. An illegal citizen IS NOT entitled to US benefits regardless of whether or not they are paying into the tax base ILLEGALLY.

:clap:clap:clap
 

All Else Failed

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What geet me is the fact that I can walk into a business and people could be speaking perfect english but when they see me they start speaking spanish. Thats fine that they dont want me to know what they are saying. But when I ask a question about something. They look at me like they don't understand.

Or how about this. I was in a grocery store checkout and the cashier was speaking nothing but spanish to me, and this was not a Mexican based store. I am clearly a white, white boy. That job could have went to a person who is Bilingual. Mexican or not.
This is because Mexicans/Hispanics are out-birthing whites in the South East.
 
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