A Resource Based Economy

[All Else Failed]

We really don't know about this yet, because no one has calculated the carrying capacity of Earth yet.

I think we're a long way off. We just need to manage our resources better.

Explain.

 

[edgray]

Explain.

Well take food, for example. There is more than enough land in the world to feed everyone. And with modern technology, vertical farming for example, and better land management, everyone could be fed and fed well.

Speculation on food commodities, for example, leads to masses of food stuffs being binned.

It's not the lack of land that is making people starve.

Lots of land is simply wasted on the wrong things.

Currently none of the problems of society are down to the potential lack of resources, just the actual lack of resources because of financial limitations and the profit motive.

 

[All Else Failed]

Well take food, for example. There is more than enough land in the world to feed everyone. And with modern technology, vertical farming for example, and better land management, everyone could be fed and fed well.

Speculation on food commodities, for example, leads to masses of food stuffs being binned.

It's not the lack of land that is making people starve.

Lots of land is simply wasted on the wrong things.

Currently none of the problems of society are down to the potential lack of resources, just the actual lack of resources because of financial limitations and the profit motive.

So who is going to force every country to distribute it all evenly?

 

[edgray]

So who is going to force every country to distribute it all evenly?

No one should force anyone. This won't happen immediately, but it has to if we are to live in a world free from poverty and suffering.

It'll take a shift in values, a shift that has already started in many.

 

[All Else Failed]

No one should force anyone. This won't happen immediately, but it has to if we are to live in a world free from poverty and suffering.

It'll take a shift in values, a shift that has already started in many.

So really it is never going to happen.

 

[edgray]

So really it is never going to happen.

Maybe not in our lifetimes, but I believe it will.

 

[All Else Failed]

Why??

 

[edgray]

Why??

why do I think it will happen?

Because it will have to. Eventually the 80% of people in the world getting screwed over unnecessarily will do something about it.

 

[All Else Failed]

why do I think it will happen?

Because it will have to. Eventually the 80% of people in the world getting screwed over unnecessarily will do something about it.

Well, it doesn't have to. The world will keep spinning.


hey have not done anything about it for thousands of years.

 

[edgray]

Well, it doesn't have to. The world will keep spinning.


hey have not done anything about it for thousands of years.

because a) the knowledge and means weren't there to do so and b) people weren't aware

this is changing. more and more people are rejecting the consumerist cultures we have, not to mention the growing anti-globalisation movement.

Of course it doesn't have to, but for this world to become civilised it does.

 

[All Else Failed]

because a) the knowledge and means weren't there to do so and b) people weren't aware

this is changing. more and more people are rejecting the consumerist cultures we have, not to mention the growing anti-globalisation movement.

Of course it doesn't have to, but for this world to become civilised it does.

Yeah I am one of those people. However, that doesn't mean countries are just going to hand their surplus food stuffs out to other nations.


The world is civilized what are you talking about

 

[edgray]

Yeah I am one of those people. However, that doesn't mean countries are just going to hand their surplus food stuffs out to other nations.

The world is civilized what are you talking about

they already do, that's the thing.

The rest of the world supports the west with cheap food stuffs acquired through market manipulation, monetary bullying and globalisation.

The world is not civilised! Not even close!!

Is war for oil civilised?
Are the masses of civilian casualties civilised?
Is the enslavement of poorer nations civilised?
Is the massive and growing wealth gap civilised?
Is the fact there are 38,000 kids dying everyday through preventable starvation civilised?
Is the infringements on human rights civilised?

We're not even close to being civilised.

 

[All Else Failed]

they already do, that's the thing.

The rest of the world supports the west with cheap food stuffs acquired through market manipulation, monetary bullying and globalisation.

The world is not civilised! Not even close!!

Is war for oil civilised?
Are the masses of civilian casualties civilised?
Is the enslavement of poorer nations civilised?
Is the massive and growing wealth gap civilised?
Is the fact there are 38,000 kids dying everyday through preventable starvation civilised?
Is the infringements on human rights civilised?

We're not even close to being civilised.

Huh? America gets most of its food from its own sources.



you're twisting the word "civilized" to make it mean what you want. Stop being disingenuous. War will always, ALWAYS exist.

 

[edgray]

Huh? America gets most of its food from its own sources.

The US imports around 10% of it's food stuffs. Countries like Britain rely more on the cheap international produce.

Electronics, clothing, oil are the biggest imports for the US. The US's trade imports are currently at 2.5trillion dollars.

you're twisting the word "civilized" to make it mean what you want. Stop being disingenuous. War will always, ALWAYS exist.

I haven't twisted anything, I simply cannot see how we could call anything about our world civilised.

Modern war isn't noble, it's sickening and disgusting and highly unnecessary. And it's anything but civilised. It will have to stop. More people do not want war than want it. And that number will continue to grow when more people realise why wars happen.

 

[All Else Failed]

The US imports around 10% of it's food stuffs. Countries like Britain rely more on the cheap international produce.

Electronics, clothing, oil are the biggest imports for the US. The US's trade imports are currently at 2.5trillion dollars.



I haven't twisted anything, I simply cannot see how we could call anything about our world civilised.

Modern war isn't noble, it's sickening and disgusting and highly unnecessary. And it's anything but civilised. It will have to stop. More people do not want war than want it. And that number will continue to grow when more people realise why wars happen.

10% is nothing. We could easily replace that if we wanted to.


Civilization:



–noun 1. an advanced state of human society, in which a high level of culture, science, industry, and governmenthas been reached.


yup we're there already.











As long as people want different things, there will be war.

 

[edgray]

10% is nothing. We could easily replace that if we wanted to.

Civilization:

–noun 1. an advanced state of human society, in which a high level of culture, science, industry, and governmenthas been reached.

yup we're there already.

I do not agree we are civilised. People are still living in unnecessary poverty, how can that possibly be called civilised?

That is an overly simplistic meaning of the word, if you ask me.

Also, by your description there, we are a long way from being civilised scientifically, we're only just getting going in that department.

As long as people want different things, there will be war.

No, as long as you have concentrations of power you'll always have war. As long as you have scarcity, you'll always have war.

Most people want different things yet don't go around starting wars or killing each other, nor do they want to.

 

[All Else Failed]

I do not agree we are civilised. People are still living in unnecessary poverty, how can that possibly be called civilised?

That is an overly simplistic meaning of the word, if you ask me.

Also, by your description there, we are a long way from being civilised scientifically, we're only just getting going in that department.



No, as long as you have concentrations of power you'll always have war. As long as you have scarcity, you'll always have war.

Most people want different things yet don't go around starting wars or killing each other, nor do they want to.

Some people starving does not just sweep away the other qualifications of what makes a civilization a civilization.



Central power is not bad. That alone does not cause war. Land is scarce and it is finite. What happens when a few more billion people join the human ranks in the next 100 years? More urban sprawl?

 

[edgray]

Some people starving does not just sweep away the other qualifications of what makes a civilization a civilization.

Central power is not bad. That alone does not cause war. Land is scarce and it is finite. What happens when a few more billion people join the human ranks in the next 100 years? More urban sprawl?

I think it does. And it's not just some, the majority of people in this world live in poverty, and tens of thousands of kids die every day. That is anything but civilised if you ask me. Not to mention killing people for oil...

Central power makes war easier. Few people making the decision.

The population will stop growing if we industrialise the whole world. it's only growing because that's being held back by globalisation.

 

[All Else Failed]

I think it does. And it's not just some, the majority of people in this world live in poverty, and tens of thousands of kids die every day. That is anything but civilised if you ask me. Not to mention killing people for oil...

Central power makes war easier. Few people making the decision.

The population will stop growing if we industrialise the whole world. it's only growing because that's being held back by globalisation.

Well, there you go trying to put your own views in front of definitions.



So what would you like? Complete anarchy?



lol wait you were crying in the other thread about global warning and you want more industrialization? Holt shit if you think there's wars for oil now just wait till the REST of the world starts to industrialize! You're cutting your own throat. No, globalization IS industrializing the world. That is the point of globalization. You have conflicting views, dude.

 

[edgray]

Well, there you go trying to put your own views in front of definitions.

I take the meaning from being civil. We're not civil.

So what would you like? Complete anarchy?

Well as the people on this forum know, I am an anarchist, a libertarian socialist to use the proper term, but to me that's just one possibility. The main point is to move away from the monetary & profit systems to a system based on the resources available.

lol wait you were crying in the other thread about global warning and you want more industrialization? Holt shit if you think there's wars for oil now just wait till the REST of the world starts to industrialize! You're cutting your own throat. No, globalization IS industrializing the world. That is the point of globalization. You have conflicting views, dude.

Well it's the only way to stop population growth... unless you are seriously suggesting killing or sterilising populations?

And no, industrialisation with modern technology can go hand in hand with the environment, it needn't be destructive.

Globalisation isn't industrialising the world. Globalisation is exploitation: industrialisation without the benefits of industrialisation. The countries being "industrialised" by globalisation do not see the benefits of that in the same way as we in the west did. They don't get the products they're making, they get shipped to us.

You see, it's not the process of being an industrialised nation that halts population growth, it's the lifestyle that comes with it. These newly "industrialised" nations aren't any better off than before, they don't have comfortable lives like us in the west. Because, through globalisation, the money and the products they are producing are for the western markets at reduced prices.