A question for all conservatives...

[retro]

This site would never have been started by a Republican... Recovery.gov
It's not perfect by any means, but it's a big step in the right direction.

that's circular reasoning... we also wouldn't have this sham of a "stimulus" if a republican were in office, so we wouldn't have need of a website like that. We weren't supposed to have earmarks, and yet the "stimulus" is full of them. We weren't supposed to have lobbyists in the Obama administration, but there are because they're "special" cases. We have tax cheats as part of the cabinet, and other tax cheats that were nominated and had to pull out because their past was discovered. We weren't supposed to have earmarks in the budget, but this year's was okay because it was developed last year, so there wasn't a need to eliminate them this time around.

Government spending is even further out of control than it was under Bush, and that's saying something. Hell, at this point I think I'd rather have Clinton in office than Obama. At least he *tried* to balance the budget and decrease the national debt... even if he stole from medicare and social security in order to claim surpluses.

The way I see it, we're mortgaging our children's future... hell, we're spending money that my grandchildren will probably be trying to pay off by the time I die.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

Oh and Czars...We need lots of them.....CZARS!!!! Compensation Czar, Automaker Czar, Drug Czar, Healthcare Czar, A Czar Czar....WE NEED MORE!! :24:

 

[nova]

What part of "It's not perfect but it's still light years ahead of what we had before" don't you understand?

Before this site was up and running you had little to no chance on finding out where the money was going and to whom. Now you can look it up anywhere you have an internet connection.

Having data in which you have no idea of its accuracy, is no better than having no data at all. 100% of the numbers of that site could be completely fabricated and as it stands, we'd have no way of knowing it.

Now I don't think thats the case, but having worked around gov't for a few years now, I know that there is no way its completely accurate.

All we know is what money has been allocated and what they say has been spent, not what has actually been spent or what has been delivered

Now that the site is up, you can look up information of unknown accuracy anywhere you have internet connection.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

There is no way in hell that you even come close to a 50% tax.

I was in the 28% tax bracket last year, but when it was all said and done, only 6% of my total wages went to federal taxes.

And how do you consider progressive tax a violation of a fundamental principle this country was founded on? Everyone pays the exact same rates.
Everyone pays 10% on the first $8,000 they earn, then they pay 15% on everything between $8,000 and $32,000 then you pay 25% on everything between $32,000 and $77,000 and so on up to 35%

So if you make $100,000 in one year. You are in the 28% tax bracket but you only pay 22% in taxes since you are paying progressively. You don't pay 28% on $100,000 which is $28,000. It's actually $6,000 less than that since you are paying the same lower rates at the lower brackets.

I don't care if you make $10,000 a year or $100,000 a year, the first $8,000 in income is taxed at 10% for everyone. And it progressively goes up from there.

How much of our post tax income do you imagine we spend on other taxes?

 

[Accountable]

Well said, blunt and straight to the point. And I agree totally. But unfortunately we as a nation have gotten to the point where government has become a stop gap between the haves and have nots. In other words, whatever you are not willing to get on your own, you must be given.

I agree that we should help those who cannot help themselves, the powerless, the disabled, but I deny the right for anyone to be given that which they can obtain through ambition and some sense of personal pride. What's interesting is regardless of how you shake it out, if you punish industry, it is reflected in higher cost, so it affects the end user, if you put a heavy burden on the end user via more taxation, it stifles consumerism, which once again...affects the industry, and again affects the end user.

What we need is a government not influenced by either industry, or classes of people, but rather influenced by the knowledge that it must protect the rights of all its citizens equally, and do what's right for the collective, that will only begin when there is no longer incentive for DC to do anything other than the job they were elected to do. And we will only get those kinds of folks in office by letting go of stereotypes and realizing that WE need to impose term limitations by voting, they need to know they are on borrowed time if they don't do right by ALL OF US.

Or we could just sling mud, blame the ones before us and go nowhere, which is all I have seen since I was legally able to vote, rolling downhill like a snowball headed for hell

This is where we see the government differently. I don't want a government that just takes from one class and gives to another. I don't want my tax dollars going to the lazy and unmotivated. I believe that everyone should strive to provide for themselves and not rely on handouts. BUT, and this is a big but, I see the governments role as providing for the commons. This is where we all put into the system via progressive taxation to provide for the commons. These are things like roads, bridges, infrastructure, military, sciences, health, fire protection, education, police, energy, communication, commerce, etc....
Roads and bridges because there is no way possible that I could pay for my own roads to travel on.
Military because I could not financially provide for my own protection
and the list can go on and on.
I mean just look at almost every new medicine and medical breakthrough here in the US over the last 100 years, they are mainly funded by the government.
We should also help provide for those who cannot provide for themselves. Including the disabled, the elderly and those who may have hit hard times. And like any other program out there, there will be abuse of the system and those who find a way to game the system. So we need laws to help stop the abuse.
Overall I see the government as a benefit to our existence. Is it fat and bloated? Yup. And I would love to see it trimmed down and streamlined. But this will never happen until we get the corporate influence out of it.

Do I want to stop my tax dollars from going to the lazy leaches who suck from the government programs? Of course, but I realize that it's a VERY small portion of my tax dollars that are going there. It's a red herring thrown into the debate to distract from the real topic at hand.

It looks like you two don't disagree about function, just degree.

I draw a stark line between what I see as the function of our federal gov't and the function of state & local gov't. Federal gov't has reached WAAAAAYY too far out of their job description, imo.

 

[Accountable]

Things are changing.

This site would never have been started by a Republican... Recovery.gov

A propaganda site to convince likely voters that they are saving the world? Why on earth would you think the other party wouldn't do the same ... won't do the same when it suits them?

 

[Minor Axis]

A propaganda site to convince likely voters that they are saving the world? Why on earth would you think the other party wouldn't do the same ... won't do the same when it suits them?

You are just too much of a cynic. As I've said for a group of our forum participants, any good news about Obama is bad news. The only thing good he and the Dems could do to make this bunch cheer is drop dead...

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

You are just too much of a cynic. As I've said for a group of our forum participants, any good news about Obama is bad news. The only thing good he and the Dems could do to make this bunch cheer is drop dead...

Totally untrue. They could develop solutions that make sense for everyone. That's the job they are supposed to have.

 

[Minor Axis]

Totally untrue. They could develop solutions that make sense for everyone. That's the job they are supposed to have.

Just look up two posts.

 

[Accountable]

you are just too much of a cynic [but i'll try to outdo you]. As i've said for a group of our forum participants, any good news about obama is bad news. The only thing good he and the dems could do to make this bunch cheer is drop dead...

:24::24:

 

[Alien Allen]

You are just too much of a cynic. As I've said for a group of our forum participants, any good news about Obama is bad news. The only thing good he and the Dems could do to make this bunch cheer is drop dead...

Are you crazy

The last thing we want is for him to drop dead

Then he will really be Anointed and be lofted up to places he never deserved. Much as JFK.

I want the country to survive thru the next 3 years and then send his ass back to oblivion where he is rendered useless

 

[retro]

Are you crazy

The last thing we want is for him to drop dead

Then he will really be Anointed and be lofted up to places he never deserved. Much as JFK.

I want the country to survive thru the next 3 years and then send his ass back to oblivion where he is rendered useless

not to mention the fact that we'd be stuck with Biden..... :willy_nilly:

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

I'm curious on one thing in particular. If Republicans are so bad for the country, and only care about the wealthy. Why isn't the current administration taking folks to jail over the 9 trillion dollars that appears to be missing from the bailouts? I mean doesn't congress have to approve spending? And didn't they vote on the lofty check handed over to the Fed? I thought transparency and accountability were supposed to be the batte cry over the next four years...