A question for all conservatives...

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Accountable

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I can safely assume that every member on this board is part of the working class and not in the upper 2% of wealth. Yet we have quite a few conservatives/republicans. Can anyone tell me why?

This is what puzzles me, in this country the republican party is not looking out for you or your interests. Can anyone name one piece of legislation brought forth by a republican that benefits the working class in America? If you look over the legislation proposed and passed by the republicans over the past 60 years, it's all geared towards large corporations, millionaires and billionaires.

So can anyone name one piece of republican legislation proposed and passed into law that directly benefits us, the American working class?
I'm wondering at your assumption that only by making new law and spending ever more of my tax dollar can a politician do things that benefit us. It's also mildly amusing how you & one or two others here are only capable of 2-dimensional thought when it comes to politics, as if republicans have done only bad and democrats have done only good.

How is increasing spending, increasing debt, and increasing government involvement in my personal life (which has been and continues to be SOP of the federal gov't since Clinton) in any way benefitting my freedom, liberty, or self-determination?
 
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BadBoy@TheWheel

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I'm wondering at your assumption that only by making new law and spending ever more of my tax dollar can a politician do things that benefit us. It's also mildly amusing how you & one or two others here are only capable of 2-dimensional thought when it comes to politics, as if republicans have done only bad and democrats have done only good.

How is increasing spending, increasing debt, and increasing government involvement in my personal life (which has been and continues to be SOP of the federal gov't since Clinton) in any way benefitting my freedom, liberty, or self-determination?

What really makes me laugh, and why I refuse to enter to deply into this debate, is how the vast majority assume that because you insult the president, you MUST be swinging for the other party. If you oppose Obama, well hell you have to be a flag flying card carrying member of the extreme right, and obviously you aren't intelligent and you want to squash the poor!
I despise the notion that because of my tax bracket, I for some reason am MORE responsible for the well being of a stranger than they are. I'll pay more taxes when the government manages money better (I know I know Bush Bush Bush Bush whatever) When the government starts investigating medicare/medicaid fraud, welfare fraud, Social Security fraud, and patches the HUGE hemorrages in the system, you'd find there not to be a need to raise taxes. Hell I also think if my company has to downsize, then so does the government. They handed over 30+billion to GM and GM got rid of more workers, hell I think being 17+ trillion in debt calls for layoffs in DC. Starting with Congress
And for your information Tim, think about legislation that is passed that helps ANYONE, before it trickles down to the folks who need it, it's getting chipped away by lobbyists and people that are on the take. TEchnically nothing that has come out of DC in years has REALLY helped as much as it could. You just assume that Democrats have all the answers because they tell you they do, but they are no less guilty of selling this country down the river as the guy/gal across the hall. We all as a country NEED to quit closing our eyes, and hoping when we open them, all will be better. It's not getting better. But you keep the faith ;)
 

Accountable

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Yup yup! :clap

Also, not to point out the obvious, but when the Obamocrats had a real chance to redistribute wealth, they gave nearly a trillion to big rich corporations just like Bushicans did.
 
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BadBoy@TheWheel

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Yup yup! :clap

Also, not to point out the obvious, but when the Obamocrats had a real chance to redistribute wealth, they gave nearly a trillion to big rich corporations just like Bushicans did.

:24: I fucking love you man :) After they (GM/US Government) talked the union into reducing wages :24: Yeah way to go there Mr. Friend to the working man :24:
 

Accountable

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I will say this only.....NEVER say "trickle down" to me. I saw how that works under Ronnie......
trickle ... trickle ... trickle ... trickle ... trickle ... trickle ... trickle ... trickle ... trickle ... trickle ... trickle ... trickle ... trickle ... trickle ... trickle ... trickle ... trickle ... trickle ... trickle ... trickle ...
 

alice in chains

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i've read this entire thread and i sure as hell hope you're all discussing purely for pleasure and not trying to get anything done or compromised. i followed the presidential campaign last year and have already given up on politics. i stopped pretending like i could or wanted to control my desires and realized i wants what i wants...of course if i were involved in politics, i'd play the game...for now, i'm going to continue watching, lol.
 

Tangerine

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i've read this entire thread and i sure as hell hope you're all discussing purely for pleasure and not trying to get anything done or compromised. i followed the presidential campaign last year and have already given up on politics. i stopped pretending like i could or wanted to control my desires and realized i wants what i wants...of course if i were involved in politics, i'd play the game...for now, i'm going to continue watching, lol.

It's ludicrous to even imagine that there is any action that any one of us could take to change anything about how our national leaders run our nation's business. We are as powerless today as any point in our history. So yeah, all we're doing is talking about it. Because it's all we CAN do.
 

ssl

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It's ludicrous to even imagine that there is any action that any one of us could take to change anything about how our national leaders run our nation's business. We are as powerless today as any point in our history. So yeah, all we're doing is talking about it. Because it's all we CAN do.

No, no you are not as powerless today as any point in anyone's history.

You are still in the mindset they want you to be in, mindless drones, doing what you are told to do, believing what you are told to believe is right.

You can start changing the world by changing how your community works. Envision what you think government should be, and do it at that level. Building success shows others that you meant what you say, and it can be done. Sure ain't gonna take two weeks to fix everything. Don't be surprised if you have to pass the torch to someone else. Sometimes, change does not happen instantly (which is one of the things we have been conditioned to: instant gratification).
 
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Dakota Jim

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No, no you are not.

You are still in the mindset they want you to be in, mindless drones, doing what you are told to do, what you are told to believe is right.

You can start changing the world by changing how your community works. Envision what you think government should be, and do it at that level. Building success shows others that you meant what you say, and it can be done. Sure ain't gonna take two weeks to fix everything. Don't be surprised if you have to pass the torch to someone else. Sometimes, change does not happen instantly (which is one of the things we have been conditioned to: instant gratification).

Just thinking that the only thing you can do is to talk about it is just utter bullshit.

Yeah, there are people on the internet who actually think they can change minds and win hearts....ain't happening...
 

retro

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Yup yup! :clap

Also, not to point out the obvious, but when the Obamocrats had a real chance to redistribute wealth, they gave nearly a trillion to big rich corporations just like Bushicans did.

shhhh, don't bring facts and logic into this debate, it's not allowed.

For the record, while I provided examples of a few times the GOP attempted (or succeeded) in doing something for the benefit of the people, I don't particularly believe that's what congress should be doing anyway. Whether or not you believe in trickle-down economics, there's one very important thing to note here. It is in a company's best interests to preserve the value of the company and protect profit margins as best they can during economic downturns. I think that's something we can all agree is the case, whether or not you agree with the practice. The same goes for small business owners, they're trying to make a living and provide for their families and their employees while still keeping a profit margin to keep their business alive. Again, I don't think that's anything that anyone can dispute with any degree of success. The companies and small business owners are the ones that employ a vast number of the working and middle class that the democrats (and all the liberals here) claim to be trying to protect. So, when you raise taxes on small business, corporations, and the "rich", what happens? Companies lay off the same working and middle class that the bills were trying to "help". So the people that were having some issues financially before now don't have a job any longer because they got laid off because of the economy and raised taxes on their employer, and they're in worse shape than they were to begin with.

It's simple cause and effect here people.

I don't particularly understand the attitude that the "rich" are evil and bad and greedy and don't care about anyone but themselves. I don't understand why the attitude towards people that have made something of themselves is to punish them for their success and tax them far beyond what anyone else is being taxed (in terms of percentages). I'm firmly in the middle class right now, and will probably be in the upper middle class within the next 2-3 years, I have no college education, and have worked my ass off to get where I'm at in my life. However, even when my (now ex) wife and I were making combined what I make in a year now, I never once thought it anyone's responsibility but my own to take care of myself and my family. I was out of work for a good portion of 2004, and I was on unemployment because it was available, but I was working my ass off to get off of it and to find a job during that time. The tech industry wasn't doing a lot of hiring at that point, so I ended up applying for fast food, manual labor, clerical jobs... basically anything that would allow me to earn money. Unfortunately, I was told that I was overqualified for everything until I got a job selling computers at Best Buy. Contrast that with my brother and sister in law, who have been living off of the government, mooching money off of my family and her family, living way beyond their means, while she refuses to get a job of any sort, and he teaches piano while they both spend a small fortune on the University of Phoenix for school. They have an attitude of entitlement, that the government and everyone else owes them because they're poor and were irresponsible. That's the attitude that I see most prevalent in this country, and that is why I am so against social programs at their core.

People believe that the government exists to take care of them, and that flies straight in the face of everything the founding fathers tried to do with this country. The attitude of entitlement starts with these social programs, and it has now permeated our society to the point where we have people who don't do a damn thing, don't try to better themselves, and expect the government and other people to take care of them and their families. That is what is wrong with this country, and that is why I'm so totally and completely against the vast majority of principles, ideas, and legislation presented by Democrats.
 

Accountable

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No, no you are not as powerless today as any point in anyone's history.

You are still in the mindset they want you to be in, mindless drones, doing what you are told to do, believing what you are told to believe is right.

You can start changing the world by changing how your community works. Envision what you think government should be, and do it at that level. Building success shows others that you meant what you say, and it can be done. Sure ain't gonna take two weeks to fix everything. Don't be surprised if you have to pass the torch to someone else. Sometimes, change does not happen instantly (which is one of the things we have been conditioned to: instant gratification).
:nod::clap:nod: Standing O! :nod::clap:nod:​
 

ssl

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Beautiful words don't make change. We're experiencing that on a daily basis.

Damn straight.

Beautiful words can only inspire others.

Change (good or bad) can only come from action.
Action (good or bad) comes from being inspired to a cause (good or bad).

Hitler (not famous, just infamous) probably spoke quite well (granted, he did have an audience looking for a reason to be led). By no means am I comparing myself to Hitler, nor do I wish to be compared to the current PotUS. Even more so, I would rather not even be compared to anyone other than myself, and even then, I'd rather not be compared to myself.

But damnit, it's better than just bitching and thinking "ah, well, I bitched, so I'm good".

Some take that route (that's their choice), others speak, and even fewer take the call to arms; even less are successful at producing change.

Those at the top, wish to stay at the top. They will do all in their capabilities to ensure they stay at the top, and that is how it is.
 

Alien Allen

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It's ludicrous to even imagine that there is any action that any one of us could take to change anything about how our national leaders run our nation's business. We are as powerless today as any point in our history. So yeah, all we're doing is talking about it. Because it's all we CAN do.

No, no you are not as powerless today as any point in anyone's history.

You are still in the mindset they want you to be in, mindless drones, doing what you are told to do, believing what you are told to believe is right.

You can start changing the world by changing how your community works. Envision what you think government should be, and do it at that level. Building success shows others that you meant what you say, and it can be done. Sure ain't gonna take two weeks to fix everything. Don't be surprised if you have to pass the torch to someone else. Sometimes, change does not happen instantly (which is one of the things we have been conditioned to: instant gratification).

Beautiful words don't make change. We're experiencing that on a daily basis.

You hit a home run there ssl :thumbup

We are not as hopeless as we think we are. I may piss and moan and make it look like I think it is hopeless at times but when people get engaged the morons we elect do take notice.

I was involved in a state wide re write of the rules that our industry is governed by a couple years ago. We finally got off our ass and fought for a change. We did something that rarely is done and beat down the regulators attempt.

When congress was poised to pass immigration reform a couple years ago it woke up the masses and congress responded.

The problem is we are an apathetic nation who always wants somebody else to do the dirty work. How many people do you know that never vote and never get involved?? They are your problem as much as the morons that got elected ;)
 

ssl

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You hit a home run there ssl :thumbup

We are not as hopeless as we think we are. I may piss and moan and make it look like I think it is hopeless at times but when people get engaged the morons we elect do take notice.

I was involved in a state wide re write of the rules that our industry is governed by a couple years ago. We finally got off our ass and fought for a change. We did something that rarely is done and beat down the regulators attempt.

When congress was poised to pass immigration reform a couple years ago it woke up the masses and congress responded.

The problem is we are an apathetic nation who always wants somebody else to do the dirty work. How many people do you know that never vote and never get involved?? They are your problem as much as the morons that got elected ;)

At the higher levels, voting means nothing, except an interesting statistic. Local levels, yes, definitely get involved... unless you (general here) think that such needs to be changed.
 

Tangerine

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I do appreciate the passion you guys have that we have the power to make change, but I still disagree.

AA - while I can't speak at all about your issue with regulators and your collective opposition, I CAN say that Immigration reform is at best, a stretch as an example. NOTHING Has been done about this hot button issue, and no one seems to be happy with the current state of Immigration in this country. How is that a case of people making change?

And I hold to my original point that we are not able to change the way our national leaders run our nation's business. Sure, we can band together and make things happen in our neighborhoods. We can take actions to make our community safer, or more liveable. But nationally, we cannot break the stronghold on the two-party political system and all of it's generations-old ties to big business, powerful lobbying groups and dirty money. There is NOTHING you or I can do to prevent Trillions of dollars being thrown into big busiiness bailouts with zero accountability, nor anything we can do to prevent all of teh big-money interests from shutting down every attempt to bring meaningful change to things like our health care and insurance monstrosities. I'd be interested to hear your suggestions on personal actions we can take to change how Washington does ANYTHING.
 
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