A Picture is worth 1000 words...

[Carthage]

I highly doubt you would kill yourself. Plus, taking your life is a pretty terrible sin, Christian. I just think its hilarious that you somehow think the people of Germany would be glad to have bombs rained down on them to get Hitler out of power. Plus, the Russians had the war won through most of the war. The US wasn't even needed.

I would have gone to hell gladly if I could be 100% positive, with sight, sound, and touch, that that Bastard was following me. Of course, that's only if I thought my going would help him go to hell. If not, then no, but the point still stands - If I thought it would make him go to hell for certain, I'd go.
And had the Russians won, Europe would have been under soviet communism.

 

[Carthage]

I just think its hilarious that you somehow think the people of Germany would be glad to have bombs rained down on them to get Hitler out of power. Plus, the Russians had the war won through most of the war. The US wasn't even needed.

War is a utilitarian thing, unfortunately. It defies all natural law. I am not a utilitarian, but when it comes to war, one must be prepared to let some die in order for more to be saved.

 

[All Else Failed]

I would have gone to hell gladly if I could be 100% positive, with sight, sound, and touch, that that Bastard was following me. Of course, that's only if I thought my going would help him go to hell. If not, then no, but the point still stands - If I thought it would make him go to hell for certain, I'd go.
And had the Russians won, Europe would have been under soviet communism.

So you would be willingly disobeying your god, nay, slapping him in the face when you commit suicide for a man that would hypothetically go to hell anyways....the irony.



The Russians were responsible for Germany's military defeat. They didn't take over Europe because of the deal that was made between the allies and the Russians.

 

[All Else Failed]

War is a utilitarian thing, unfortunately. It defies all natural law. I am not a utilitarian, but when it comes to war, one must be prepared to let some die in order for more to be saved.

Yeah, lets cracks a few eggs to make an omelette!

 

[Carthage]

So you would be willingly disobeying your god, nay, slapping him in the face for a man that would hypothetically go to hell anyways....the irony.

What I said was, that if my going to hell would have Hitler go to hell, then yeah, I'd go. That man was more evil then all the communist dictators combined, plus Genghis Khan. He, more then anyone else in the history of the universe, deserves to burn in hell for all eternity and to suffer never-ending torture beyond human comprehension, and if my going will get him there, then fine.
If not, if he would go anyways, then I wouldn't, no.

[/quote]The Russians were responsible for Germany's military defeat. They didn't take over Europe because of the deal that was made between the allies and the Russians.[/quote]

I know that. What I was saying was, that without the Allies, Soviet Communism would have taken over Europe. That's why the allies were needed.
As well as the fact that we had to take every step humanly possible to get that fuckin bastard out. Too bad he didn't die like Mousillini.

 

[Tim]

I would have gone to hell gladly if I could be 100% positive, with sight, sound, and touch, that that Bastard was following me. Of course, that's only if I thought my going would help him go to hell. If not, then no, but the point still stands - If I thought it would make him go to hell for certain, I'd go.
And had the Russians won, Europe would have been under soviet communism.

You would be willing to go to hell?

Let me ask you a few questions...

what is hell? I mean what happens there?
How long will you go to hell for?

 

[Carthage]

You would be willing to go to hell?

Let me ask you a few questions...

what is hell? I mean what happens there?

Hell is the place where those evil in the eyes of the lord suffer punishment for their sins. The details include burning, dying again and again, burning, and other puhisnments beyond our comprehension, but these may be metaphorical for other kinds of punishments.

How long will you go to hell for?

Eternity/Until God destroys it.

 

[Tim]

Hell is the place where those evil in the eyes of the lord suffer punishment for their sins. The details include burning, dying again and again, burning, and other puhisnments beyond our comprehension, but these may be metaphorical for other kinds of punishments.



Eternity/Until God destroys it.

Sounds like a horrible unimaginable place of suffering and pain....

so how long is eternity? Are you even capable of wrapping your mind around the concept of eternity? I don't mean just saying the words, but to look at it mathematically and understanding how long eternity is... because when you think that you finally understand it, multiply that by several trillion... then another several trillion times that... then you will still be only a very small fraction of eternity.....

This is where Evan needs to come in and explain to this young man what eternity is...


Now after you spend a few days trying to wrap your mind around an eternity of unspeakable suffering... tell me how this is just punishment for killing yourself. Don't you think that this punishment is eternally unfair?

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

My impression of hell is that it is a state of mind. That having been said, I simply think that the ideology that caters to "God" loving some of us, yet banishing others to hell for eternity for....Heck I don't know...Masturbation is insane.

I do not want to get into a battle of "God" however, if that's what I have to believe, then count me out. A radical fundementalist is the same wearing a sheet and yelling jihad as a little white haired lady on Sunday telling a classroom full of children they will spend an eternity in hell undergoing immense pain and suffering for looking at a Playboy.

My impression of Eternity is that it stertches beyond mathematics and human imagination, that's the simplest terminology I can use. I cannot imagine a teenager being able to comprehend nor appreciate the gravity behind that. I have studied math my entire career, have founded my professional existence on it and do not ponder the finality of the term Eternity, and normally when it is being used it is being used in reference to pain and suffering.

Which is only okay, if you are a fundementalist Christian, who listens to Sean Hannity and fire bombs abortion clinics. In that respect, religious oppression, and violence is justified.

 

[Carthage]

Sounds like a horrible unimaginable place of suffering and pain....

so how long is eternity? Are you even capable of wrapping your mind around the concept of eternity? I don't mean just saying the words, but to look at it mathematically and understanding how long eternity is... because when you think that you finally understand it, multiply that by several trillion... then another several trillion times that... then you will still be only a very small fraction of eternity.....

This is where Evan needs to come in and explain to this young man what eternity is...


Now after you spend a few days trying to wrap your mind around an eternity of unspeakable suffering... tell me how this is just punishment for killing yourself. Don't you think that this punishment is eternally unfair?

I never claimed it was. I view suicide as one of the greatest, if not the greatest, sin possible.
However, if this would get Hitler into hell, I think I would. I wouldn't claim it as anymore fair then regular suicide, but if this was the only way to get Hitler into hell, the yeah, I'll take it.
Luckily, I don't have to make that descision.

 

[Carthage]

My impression of Eternity is that it stertches beyond mathematics and human imagination, that's the simplest terminology I can use. I cannot imagine a teenager being able to comprehend nor appreciate the gravity behind that.

For me, This is a matter of faith. I simply accept, without trying to explain, that God has created eternity. For me - end of story.

 

[dt3]

Nothing at all. You need to realize that the US isn't some captain America that is all good and all moral. We will do anything to remain in power.

Isn't that true of anything in existence? Who or what would simply roll over and die when threatened? I'm not trying to justify everything the US has ever done. But you can't act surprised that a government tries to secure it's very existence. You can question it's methods, but you can't be surprised when it does what it think it has to. What was the last country that folded up and called it quits without trying to save itself?

 

[debbie t]

Sorry, I should explain this more fully - we were in a war to stop the senseless slaughter of innocents. Why would the greatest and most democratic nations on earth, the most righteous governments to ever exist, bomb a city simply to kill civilians? Especially when we could have used those bombs to kill SOLDIERS.

Plus: From Wikipedia:

please dont just pick out the convenient bits ,look at the WHOLE

The bombing of Dresden by the British Royal Air Force (RAF) and United States Army Air Force (USAAF) between February 13 and February 15, 1945, 12 weeks before the surrender of the Armed Forces (Wehrmacht) of Nazi Germany, remains one of the most controversial Allied actions of the Second World War. The raids saw 1,300 heavy bombers drop over 3,900 tons of high-explosive bombs and incendiary devices in four raids, destroying 13 square miles (34 km²) of the city, the baroque capital of the German state of Saxony, and causing a firestorm that consumed the city centre.[2] Estimates of civilian casualties vary greatly, but recent publications place the figure between 24,000 and 40,000.[3]
The Allies described the operation as the justified bombing of a military and industrial target, which was a major rail transportation and communication centre, housing 110 factories and 50,000 workers in support of the German war effort.[4] Against this, several researchers have argued that Dresden was a cultural landmark of little or no military significance, a "Florence on the Elbe," as it was known, and the attacks were not proportional for the commensurate military gains.[5]
In the post-war period estimates of the dead ran from a low of 8,200 to a high of 300,000 and have been the subject of distortion both upwards and downwards for varied ideological and nationalistic reasons and have been and still are the subject of extreme controversy.[6][7][8]The raids continue to be included among the worst examples of civilian suffering caused by strategic bombing, and have become one of the moral causes célèbres of the Second World War.[9]

I never claimed it was. I view suicide as one of the greatest, if not the greatest, sin possible.
However, if this would get Hitler into hell, I think I would. I wouldn't claim it as anymore fair then regular suicide, but if this was the only way to get Hitler into hell, the yeah, I'll take it.
Luckily, I don't have to make that descision.

oh dear ..oh dear me
regular suicide ..sin ..hell??????

 

[All Else Failed]

Isn't that true of anything in existence? Who or what would simply roll over and die when threatened? I'm not trying to justify everything the US has ever done. But you can't act surprised that a government tries to secure it's very existence. You can question it's methods, but you can't be surprised when it does what it think it has to. What was the last country that folded up and called it quits without trying to save itself?

I'm not talking about just letting things happen to you and "rolling over and just dying". The US has a long history of imperialism where it wasn't necessary for our existance. At all.

 

[dt3]

I'm not talking about just letting things happen to you and "rolling over and just dying". The US has a long history of imperialism where it wasn't necessary for our existance. At all.

But your exact quote was "We will do anything to remain in power". My point is that that is the very point of anything's existence.

 

[BreakfastSurreal]

dude 15 pages already? *pats self on back for starting good topic*

 

[dt3]

dude 15 pages already? *pats self on back for starting good topic*

Yeah, but it's nowhere near the original topic

 

[Pudding Time]

what does this have to do with the discussion at hand ????

Read the whole post, then think about it.

 

[Pudding Time]

Yea you got me.

Socialism is nothing more then wealth re-distribution. Taking someones hard earned money and giving it to the worthless no good scum of society, simply because we feel bad for them.

That's such a classic ignorant comment commonly used to describe socialism.

"someones hard earned money".. Hard earned you say? Why would someone work hard in a socialist society? They would have to be a complete moron to do hard work when they know they are only going to get the same amount of money as the lazy person.

 

[Cotton]

That's such a classic ignorant comment commonly used to describe socialism.

"someones hard earned money".. Hard earned you say? Why would someone work hard in a socialist society? They would have to be a complete moron to do hard work when they know they are only going to get the same amount of money as the lazy person.

So Socialism just encourages everyone to be a lazy worthless piece of shit then.. Awesome lets do that right away! :clap