Investigate 911 and the New World Order

[Alien Allen]

what brought us to war?
why are we there?
oh yeah, the intelligence said that they had 'WMD's.
so much for intelligence.

umm...did Truman, FDR or Lincoln have a place like gitmo?

I believe (i'm not sure) but weren't all those presidents in office before the geneva convention?

nope

Geneva conventions go back to 1864

First Geneva Convention - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

umm...did Truman, FDR or Lincoln have a place like gitmo?

You might have forgot about Lincoln suspending one of the most precious rights we have when he suspended the Writ of Habeas Corpus

you mean like the Japaneese internment camps
where FDR and Truman had over 100,000 people locked up. kind of makes gitmo look like Romper Room
Japanese American internment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Wookiegirl]

so let me get this straight.
you see no issue with gitmo and the treatment/loss of civil rights there?

 

[Wookiegirl]

nope

Geneva conventions go back to 1864

First Geneva Convention - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



not sure about Lincoln

you mean like the Japaneese internment camps
where FDR and Truman had over 100,000 people locked up. kind of makes gitmo look like Romper Room
Japanese American internment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

yeah and the japanese internment camps are a proud place in american history :yuk

so yeah, i don't know enough about what all those other guys did and i won't pretend that i'm that smart but i'm smart enough to know that if they did violate basic civil rights, yeah, they should be. if they violated the terms of the geneva convention - which i believe the one i'm thinking of was after ww1 - then yeah, they shoulda been too.

candidly, i'm more worried about what these dictators are doing now than i am about what abe lincoln did 100+ years ago

 

[dt3]

candidly, i'm more worried about what these dictators are doing now than i am about what abe lincoln did 100+ years ago

Well, Lincoln arrested every legislator in the Maryland state legislature who wanted to secede and held them in prison for the duration of the war, without ever pressing charges.

And those legislators were American citizens, guaranteed protection under our Constitution. If you don't have a problem with what Lincoln did, then you shouldn't have anything against Bush.

 

[Minor Axis]

should we have jailed LBJ for war crimes

what about Truman for dropping the bomb.

Truman for involving us in the Koran War. Which was not technically a war. Same as Iraq.

FDR for taking us to war with Germany?

How about Lincoln. Should he have been jailed for war crimes?

However the issue does not seem to be the casualties of war, but the justification to start the war. If the war is not justified, then the casualties on it's behalf become an issue.

 

[Wookiegirl]

Well, Lincoln arrested every legislator in the Maryland state legislature who wanted to secede and held them in prison for the duration of the war, without ever pressing charges.

And those legislators were American citizens.

i've never been a lincoln fan myself but i didn't know that. i did know that he took away state's rights which i believe is another basic prinicpal of the constitution.

 

[Minor Axis]

so let me get this straight.
you see no issue with gitmo and the treatment/loss of civil rights there?

Gitmo is huge. Not only can you be held indefinitely without legal representation, but you can be tortured to death. A terrible new U.S. standard. It's disheartening. And this kind of issue I guarantee will come back and bite the U.S. military on the ass when they (U.S. soldiers), your son or daughter, become POWS in the next conflict. I see the Iranian's, N.Koreans, or Russians saying, "but we're using U.S. interrogations standards". :yuk.

 

[Alien Allen]

so let me get this straight.
you see no issue with gitmo and the treatment/loss of civil rights there?

I don't think I ever made such a claim as you allege.

 

[Wookiegirl]

I don't think I ever made such a claim as you allege.

then how is it not a war crime?

 

[Alien Allen]

then how is it not a war crime?

well technically would there not have to be a declared war for it to be a war crime?

 

[dt3]

i've never been a lincoln fan myself but i didn't know that. i did know that he took away state's rights which i believe is another basic prinicpal of the constitution.

This is going to be a whole new argument, but I believe any state had (and has) the right to secede at any time. So, by my reasoning, everything he did was against state's rights.

 

[Peter Parka]

well technically would there not have to be a declared war for it to be a war crime?

Erm...what was Iraq then?:confused

 

[Wookiegirl]

This is going to be a whole new argument, but I believe any state had (and has) the right to secede at any time. So, by my reasoning, everything he did was against state's rights.

:homo:

Agreed!

 

[Wookiegirl]

well technically would there not have to be a declared war for it to be a war crime?

well i don't find the human right issues as acceptable because of a technicality.

 

[Alien Allen]

Erm...what was Iraq then?:confused

I did not get to be a Pesky Nitpicker for nothin

Call it whatever you like. an armed conflict,,,,, a police action ,,, etc

But it was NOT a declared war.

and that is alls I am saying

 

[Peter Parka]

I did not get to be a Pesky Nitpicker for nothin

Call it whatever you like. an armed conflict,,,,, a police action ,,, etc

But it was NOT a declared war.

and that is alls I am saying

Yeah you are nitpicking, that's a desperate argument, come on, you can do better than that!

 

[Alien Allen]

Yeah you are nitpicking, that's a desperate argument, come on, you can do better than that!

I don't agree with the unlimited time they can be detained

I don't agree with people being tortured under most circumstances. Sorry but there are times I can see it being justified when dealing with an evil enemy like AQ. Something rarely done in ever but the option being available.

I keep seeing it repeated about prisoners murdered at Gtmo. anybody have details on that? some link that is reputable which details what occured?

 

[Wookiegirl]

I don't agree with the unlimited time they can be detained

I don't agree with people being tortured under most circumstances. Sorry but there are times I can see it being justified when dealing with an evil enemy like AQ. Something rarely done in ever but the option being available.

I keep seeing it repeated about prisoners murdered at Gtmo. anybody have details on that? some link that is reputable which details what occured?

can you give me what you definition of reputable source is?
'reputable' news networks don't report on many significant news pieces every day.

personally, i think AQ is no more than goldstein in 1984.

 

[Peter Parka]

I don't agree with the unlimited time they can be detained

I don't agree with people being tortured under most circumstances. Sorry but there are times I can see it being justified when dealing with an evil enemy like AQ. Something rarely done in ever but the option being available.

I keep seeing it repeated about prisoners murdered at Gtmo. anybody have details on that? some link that is reputable which details what occured?

I actually agree with all of this a part from the torture being justified .:nod:

 

[Alien Allen]

I actually agree with all of this a part from the torture being justified .:nod:

I can understand that. As I said in my world it would be very rare and used only under extra ordinary circumstances. I can see how some would disagree but if there was intel that said somebody knew the where abouts of a bomb to be detonated or another 911 in the planning I don't want torture off the table. Tis a dicy issue what determines when it could be used and I would know it when I saw it but realize the concern there could be abuse of the practice. I am willing to risk that as long as it does not put somebodys life at risk. Hurt the shit out of em but not kill them.