You say you're pro-life, but do you mean it?

[retro]

I have a moral objection to abortion, but I'm pro choice.

 

[Minor Axis]

Actually we're not, but it's understandable if you're nervous. Feel free to hang onto your Dark Ages definition of life so long as it's convenient, and step into the present as it suits you.

Thats your opinion. There is no debate whether the cells are alive. The debate is what kind of rights does it have.

 

[Accountable]

Thats your opinion. There is no debate whether the cells are alive. The debate is what kind of rights does it have.

Not really.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

The cells are alive. They are undeniably human. They have the right to life.

 

[Tim]

Not really.
The cells are alive. They are undeniably human. They have the right to life.

My blood cells are alive, they are human, they have human dna, they are genetically coded with everything needed for human life.

Do they have rights as well?

Your argument is as weak as mine.

 

[Tim]

Lets take this one step further.

You can take my blood cells and create life without the need for an egg and sperm. So when does a cloned being become human, when does it have rights?

 

[Minor Axis]

Not really.
The cells are alive. They are undeniably human. They have the right to life.

We'd have to guess where the Founding Fathers would come down on this matter.

 

[Haus]

I only see two moral options for a woman to get an abortion. if she is raped or if the mother and or baby would be in danger if the pregnancy continued.

If your not ready for a baby then have responsible sex or dont have sex at all. but accidents do happen even being responsible

If they did away with abortions it would do more harm then good im afraid. some Scared mothers may find away to abort it them selves and a lot of crooked doctors performing illegal abortions.

So my opinion is it should be up to the mother and the government should stay out of it, but if I got a girl pregnant and the mother wanted an abortion I would try my best to talk her out of her but really its up to her. Shes the one who has to carry it

my 2 pennies

 

[anathelia]

I only see two moral options for a woman to get an abortion. if she is raped or if the mother and or baby would be in danger if the pregnancy continued.

If your not ready for a baby then have responsible sex or dont have sex at all. but accidents do happen even being responsible

If they did away with abortions it would do more harm then good im afraid. some Scared mothers may find away to abort it them selves and a lot of crooked doctors performing illegal abortions.

So my opinion is it should be up to the mother and the government should stay out of it, but if I got a girl pregnant and the mother wanted an abortion I would try my best to talk her out of her but really its up to her. Shes the one who has to carry it

my 2 pennies

:homo:

I, like retro, have a moral objection to it, but don't believe it should be banned, or that it should be controlled by the government or whatever.

Unless it would be a guaranteed fact that a pregnancy would harm myself or my child, there are no circumstances under which I can say at this point that I would have an abortion. There are plenty of other options out there that don't deny a life to someone.

 

[JanieDough]

ok so i believe in the right for every woman to choose, BUT for ME - this is how I look at it

I would NEVER get an abortion because I believe everything happens for a reason, and if you get an abortion, it doesn't matter when the fetus is alive or not, it's the fact that you are taking away the chance of a life that was there.

Even if I was raped, the baby might've been the one good thing to come out of it, and even if the baby was going to be horribly handicapped, I kind of still think I should deliver the baby and love it with all my heart because that's just what you were handed and that's just what you do.

My opinion. And that would be my advice if some one asked me if they should get an abortion.

That being said, I don't want children.

 

[anathelia]

ok so i believe in the right for every woman to choose, BUT for ME - this is how I look at it

I would NEVER get an abortion because I believe everything happens for a reason, and if you get an abortion, it doesn't matter when the fetus is alive or not, it's the fact that you are taking away the chance of a life that was there.

Even if I was raped, the baby might've been the one good thing to come out of it, and even if the baby was going to be horribly handicapped, I kind of still think I should deliver the baby and love it with all my heart because that's just what you were handed and that's just what you do.

My opinion. And that would be my advice if some one asked me if they should get an abortion.

That being said, I don't want children.

I agree with you completely. When I say harm, I mean fatally. I couldn't handle bringing a baby into this world and then so quickly having it taken away from me. But they better damn well be able to PROVE beyond a shadow of a doubt that that child will not live. And miracles still happen all the time.

 

[JanieDough]

I agree with you completely. When I say harm, I mean fatally. I couldn't handle bringing a baby into this world and then so quickly having it taken away from me. But they better damn well be able to PROVE beyond a shadow of a doubt that that child will not live. And miracles still happen all the time.

:nod::nod::nod:

kids born with spina bifida range in severity, and yet a lot of them get aborted. My boss has a son with spina bifida who is ten, and he is mild. He is in a wheelchair, and can't really read. He has trouble speaking, and he is paralyze from the legs down, BUT he is sharp as a freaking tack. He has a sense of humor, and definitely life of the party when he goes places.

 

[Haus]

:nod::nod::nod:

kids born with spina bifida range in severity, and yet a lot of them get aborted. My boss has spina bifida who is ten, and he is mild. He is in a wheelchair, and can't really read. He has trouble speaking, and he is paralyze from the legs down, BUT he is sharp as a freaking tack. He has a sense of humor, and definitely life of the party when he goes places.

:wtf:

 

[JanieDough]

oops fixed!

 

[Accountable]

My blood cells are alive, they are human, they have human dna, they are genetically coded with everything needed for human life.

Do they have rights as well?

Your argument is as weak as mine.

And yet you have the right to live. Go figger.

Lets take this one step further.

You can take my blood cells and create life without the need for an egg and sperm. So when does a cloned being become human, when does it have rights?

When does he/she not? Are you suggesting that a successfully cloned human doesn't enjoy the right to be human?
Don't bother to answer. You're obviously not interested in communication, only ridicule.

We'd have to guess where the Founding Fathers would come down on this matter.

We have to guess on how they would come down on everything new. I'm advocating to take religion and morality out of it and use only science and the rule of law, something most people are unwilling to do. Without the religious stance to ridicule, pro-abortion advocates' arguments look pretty weak.

 

[edgray]

I have a moral objection to abortion, but I'm pro choice.

I'd say that's a damn sensible answer.

If you morally object to abortion, does that mean it shouldn't be an option?

 

[Tim]

And yet you have the right to live. Go figger.

You are absolutely right... I have the right to live, but my point is that my blood does not have rights as an individual. We don't treat blood as human life, it's just a collection of living cells unable to survive on it's own. Yet under your definition of life it has rights.
So if you want to base this in science, then you need to come up with a better definition before we start assigning rights to any living cells with human DNA.
Maybe you can clarify your definition of life and when you think rights apply so we are all on the same page.

When does he/she not? Are you suggesting that a successfully cloned human doesn't enjoy the right to be human?
Don't bother to answer. You're obviously not interested in communication, only ridicule.

I would consider a cloned individual life, and along with life comes rights. Yes, I would still consider them to be as human as you and I.
But my point wasn't about rights of clones. It was merely to point out that it doesn't take an egg and sperm to create life as you were defining it. So under your definition, all human cells have rights as individuals. And I say they don't.

We have to guess on how they would come down on everything new. I'm advocating to take religion and morality out of it and use only science and the rule of law, something most people are unwilling to do. Without the religious stance to ridicule, pro-abortion advocates' arguments look pretty weak.

I do look at this through science. My beliefs on this are not based in morality or religion. But even science cannot agree on this. There is a difference in being alive and life, and that's a huge difference.
Like my examples, my blood cells are human, they have everything needed for life with the DNA coding and they are alive. But they are not a life, they do not have rights. I see the same thing with embryos. There is the potential for life in a growing embryo, but until it grows to the point of living independently without it's host, it's not life IMO.

Not when that actually happens is a huge gray area for me. I would put the window as early as 5 months, maybe earlier.
So based on my beliefs, I see nothing wrong with getting the morning after pill or an abortion immediately after pregnancy. As you approach 4 months and after it's too late IMO. And anything after the beginning of the third trimester should be outlawed IMO.

 

[Minor Axis]

We have to guess on how they would come down on everything new. I'm advocating to take religion and morality out of it and use only science and the rule of law, something most people are unwilling to do. Without the religious stance to ridicule, pro-abortion advocates' arguments look pretty weak.

It's the pro-lifers who use religion to advocate no abortion, not the pro-choice people. You view is that the clump of cells will become a human and it has rights. There are a bunch of people who disagree. No matter what it's potential, it's not yet a viable human being.

 

[BlackCherry]

There is no such thing as a true pro-lifer. If that were the case they would have respect for and advocate for the full life cycle of these children they are claiming to "save." I would love to see a percentage of pro-lifers who support assistance programs for mothers who need to help to raise their "saved" babies once they are born. If you support life you should support the entire life cycle...all life...start to finish. Not just in utero...and that's where pro-lifers in my opinion fall short.

 

[porterjack]

i was always pro bono
especially when he split from cher

 

[Minor Axis]

There is no such thing as a true pro-lifer. If that were the case they would have respect for and advocate for the full life cycle of these children they are claiming to "save." I would love to see a percentage of pro-lifers who support assistance programs for mothers who need to help to raise their "saved" babies once they are born. If you support life you should support the entire life cycle...all life...start to finish. Not just in utero...and that's where pro-lifers in my opinion fall short.

:homo:They demand they have the right to be born, but afterwords, "your on your own".