Why Do Some Christians Find Evolution and God Noncompatable?

[Johnfromokc]

I already answered you. No, I wouldn't allow it but mankind is allowing these children to starve.

But you justify and worship a god who allows it. How much sense does that make?

Because there are many things that are necessary for mankind to exist that aren't pretty. You may call it "evil" but it is necessary none the less.

The god you choose to believe in and worship created evil and allows it to flourish when he, in his almightyness could easily stop it.

Tell me doom - why exactly is evil necessary to an omnipotent deity?

 

[doombug]

But you justify and worship a god who allows it. How much sense does that make?

I simply look at the world around me and it makes sense.

The god you choose to believe in and worship created evil and allows it to flourish when he, in his almightyness could easily stop it.

But there are things in the world that exist but were not created.

Tell me doom - why exactly is evil necessary to an omnipotent deity?

Evil is how you decide to describe some things. As I said before some things exist that are not pretty but are necessary for mankind to exist. You choose to label them as evil.

 

[Tuffdisc]

I fail to see how anyone who has read it only once, or read any of the violent passages could claim the biblical Judeo-Christian god is NOT malevolent.

The seminaries of the world are a great producers of Atheists.

This is where you are mistaken, I have read it more than once, I can say I have read it more than you. Studied it, questioned it, tried to come up with arguments as to what it means, rather than ranting over bits that you consider wrong.

Oh so you are really an Atheist and not Agnostic, we already have one person on this forum who confuses agnosticism over atheism. I will make it two with you

All you have done is whisked over the Bible, comes up with an irrational reason without thought I think you are just going along with silly reasons of atheists who really don't understand the Bible at all.

 

[Tuffdisc]

I'm asking what kind of deluded individuals continue to worship a god that is supposedly benevolent and loves his "children" yet would kill his own creations in this fashion.

Tell me doom - would you let this happen to your child?

We don't know that $64,000. One reason we don't know is because we are not God to give you that answer. To do so is to judge people. And are you doing anything to help these people who you claim that God does nothing towards too or allows this to happen?

 

[Johnfromokc]

This is where you are mistaken, I have read it more than once, I can say I have read it more than you. Studied it, questioned it, tried to come up with arguments as to what it means, rather than ranting over bits that you consider wrong.

You have chosen to rationalize a work of fiction. One could rationalize Lord of the Rings to the point of belief. That does not make one scholarly - only delusional.

Oh so you are really an Atheist and not Agnostic, we already have one person on this forum who confuses agnosticism over atheism. I will make it two with you

I'm an Atheist where the fictional Abrahamic religions are concerned - just like you are an Atheist to Islam and the dozens of other prevailing religions on the planet today.

All you have done is whisked over the Bible, comes up with an irrational reason without thought I think you are just going along with silly reasons of atheists who really don't understand the Bible at all.

Atheists have repeatedly shown they are better educated and well read than 90% of practicing Christians where the bible is concerned.

The problem you are having is that you have reached illogical conclusions in order to justify the violence and insanity in your bible. That does not reconcile with reality, hence the delusion and need for irrational justification faced by believers.

We don't know that $64,000. One reason we don't know is because we are not God to give you that answer. To do so is to judge people. And are you doing anything to help these people who you claim that God does nothing towards too or allows this to happen?

You cannot have it both ways. Either your god is all powerful or he is not. No rational human being would allow his or her children to starve to death - yet your omnipotent deity does. And yet you guys insist on worshiping and apologizing for the evil of this deity.

Christanity and other closely related religions like Islam is a primary cause of the situation in Africa. The Pope and the Vatican seek to deny Christian Africans the right to use condoms thereby encouraging over population and disease. That policy is political, and all about increasing the Christian world population.

Islam wants to increase its population to be greater than the christian population. These two competing insane philosophies are working together to cause starvation and disease as a result of regional over population.

Now, you Christians tell us what you are doing to solve the overpopulation, disease and starvation crisis your belief in your god caused.

 

[Tuffdisc]

You have chosen to rationalize a work of fiction. One could rationalize Lord of the Rings to the point of belief. That does not make one scholarly - only delusional.



I'm an Atheist where the fictional Abrahamic religions are concerned - just like you are an Atheist to Islam and the dozens of other prevailing religions on the planet today.



Atheists have repeatedly shown they are better educated and well read than 90% of practicing Christians where the bible is concerned.

The problem you are having is that you have reached illogical conclusions in order to justify the violence and insanity in your bible. That does not reconcile with reality, hence the delusion and need for irrational justification faced by believers.



You cannot have it both ways. Either your god is all powerful or he is not. No rational human being would allow his or her children to starve to death - yet your omnipotent deity does. And yet you guys insist on worshiping and apologizing for the evil of this deity.

Christanity and other closely related religions like Islam is a primary cause of the situation in Africa. The Pope and the Vatican seek to deny Christian Africans the right to use condoms thereby encouraging over population and disease. That policy is political, and all about increasing the Christian world population.

Islam wants to increase its population to be greater than the christian population. These two competing insane philosophies are working together to cause starvation and disease as a result of regional over population.

Now, you Christians tell us what you are doing to solve the overpopulation, disease and starvation crisis your belief in your god caused.

You have no proof that the Bible is just fiction. Where have you come up with that Atheist are better educated than Christians? Are you basing that "fact" on yourself? Because your logic of reading the Bible only twice, and coming up with ridiculous statements is proving contrary to your "better education" theory

I could have proper arguments with other atheists, but not seemingly with you

 

[JuggsBunny]

Johnfromokc is NOT incorrect in his statement(s) regarding atheism and intelligence. There have been plenty of studies looking at the correlation between religion and IQ. Here are a couple of links:

Psychology Today
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...y-atheists-are-more-intelligent-the-religious

CNN Health
http://articles.cnn.com/2010-02-26/...behaviors-liberalism-exclusivity?_s=PM:HEALTH

Wikipedia (Has links to other articles/studies)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence

As an atheist, I find it irritating to be told that I simply don't *understand* the bible - or that I can't grasp the *meaning* of it because I lack faith. Unlike a lot of Christians, when I realised that Catholicism (Roman Catholic was how I was raised) wasn't for me, I went on a pretty long journey, trying to find a religion that would work for me. I looked at Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, Taoism, Islam, Ba'hai, and other spiritual practices. I read extensively about each religion, hoping that I would find SOMETHING, ANYTHING - that would sound or FEEL "true". Only when I had exhausted just about every avenue, did I come to the realisation that I didn't believe in anything. Nothing.

Coming to that conclusion was a relief.

I feel that I'm far more versed on world religions compared to my Christian counterparts. And I do wonder how someone can continually justify the existence of a god/gods when there are plenty of religious people who are killed every year just by natural disasters. There is no logic in the 'Freewill' and 'God's Will' aspect of religion (for me). I think many religions foster a sense of narcissism in the believer... do you really think that YOU are that important that *god* is paying attention to YOU every minute of every day??? Really??

 

[Johnfromokc]

You have no proof that the Bible is just fiction.

The burden of proof is on believers to provide evidence of their claims. Where is your scientific evidence?

Where have you come up with that Atheist are better educated than Christians? Are you basing that "fact" on yourself? Because your logic of reading the Bible only twice, and coming up with ridiculous statements is proving contrary to your "better education" theory

JuggsBunny has eloquently stolen my thunder answering that question:

Johnfromokc is NOT incorrect in his statement(s) regarding atheism and intelligence. There have been plenty of studies looking at the correlation between religion and IQ. Here are a couple of links:

Psychology Today
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...y-atheists-are-more-intelligent-the-religious

CNN Health
http://articles.cnn.com/2010-02-26/...behaviors-liberalism-exclusivity?_s=PM:HEALTH

Wikipedia (Has links to other articles/studies)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence

It's old news that those that choose to believe tend to be less perceptive and less educated than Atheists. Sorry, not trying to be insensitive and hurt anyones feelings - it simply is what it is.

I could have proper arguments with other atheists, but not seemingly with you

If your idea of a "proper" argument consists of me agreeing with you, then it's not going to happen. Religion never passes the logic test.

 

[alice in chains]

You have chosen to rationalize a work of fiction. One could rationalize Lord of the Rings to the point of belief. That does not make one scholarly - only delusional.



I'm an Atheist where the fictional Abrahamic religions are concerned - just like you are an Atheist to Islam and the dozens of other prevailing religions on the planet today.



Atheists have repeatedly shown they are better educated and well read than 90% of practicing Christians where the bible is concerned.

The problem you are having is that you have reached illogical conclusions in order to justify the violence and insanity in your bible. That does not reconcile with reality, hence the delusion and need for irrational justification faced by believers.



You cannot have it both ways. Either your god is all powerful or he is not. No rational human being would allow his or her children to starve to death - yet your omnipotent deity does. And yet you guys insist on worshiping and apologizing for the evil of this deity.

Christanity and other closely related religions like Islam is a primary cause of the situation in Africa. The Pope and the Vatican seek to deny Christian Africans the right to use condoms thereby encouraging over population and disease. That policy is political, and all about increasing the Christian world population.

I'm not Christian but I'm confused as to why you think your INTERPRETATION is more accurate to reality than other peoples' INTERPRETATIONS. You donnot know what was INTENDED or how the Bible was INTENDED to be read.

Islam wants to increase its population to be greater than the christian population. These two competing insane philosophies are working together to cause starvation and disease as a result of regional over population.

Now, you Christians tell us what you are doing to solve the overpopulation, disease and starvation crisis your belief in your god caused.

I'm not Christian but I'm confused as to why you think your INTERPRETATION is more accurate to reality than other peoples' INTERPRETATIONS. You donnot know what was the Bible's intentions.

 

[Zorak]

IQ tests are a controversial measure of intelligence, to put it lightly, and they certainly don't make for reliable statistics.

For example, if you were to take the average score of IQ's of people over the world, it would be insanely high. Why? Because by and large, dumb people don't take IQ tests.

So to prove whether or not religious or non-religuous people are smarter through IQ test statistics has some clearly obvious downfalls.

 

[Johnfromokc]

I'm not Christian but I'm confused as to why you think your INTERPRETATION is more accurate to reality than other peoples' INTERPRETATIONS. You donnot know what was the Bible's intentions.

It's not an interpretation. I'm basing my thoughts on what the bible ACTUALLY SAYS VERBATIM.

If you have to interpret it to make it make sense, then as the saying goes - "There's your sign".

 

[Tuffdisc]

It's not an interpretation. I'm basing my thoughts on what the bible ACTUALLY SAYS VERBATIM.

If you have to interpret it to make it make sense, then as the saying goes - "There's your sign".

Verbatim means copy without meaning, therefore you haven't read it thoroughly just picking out bits that you think are malevolent

 

[Johnfromokc]

Verbatim means copy without meaning, therefore you haven't read it thoroughly just picking out bits that you think are malevolent

OMFG, lol. Can you not see your own spin here? OK...let's start with one simple verse:

"If a man lies with a man as with a woman, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

So...whats your interpretation?

 

[Tuffdisc]

OMFG, lol. Can you not see your own spin here? OK...let's start with one simple verse:

"If a man lies with a man as with a woman, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

So...whats your interpretation?

What's yours?

 

[Johnfromokc]

What's yours?

It says what it says.

 

[Zorak]

It's not an interpretation. I'm basing my thoughts on what the bible ACTUALLY SAYS VERBATIM.

If you have to interpret it to make it make sense, then as the saying goes - "There's your sign".

Everything is written verbatim, of course. But no message can stand alone, no matter how clear. You need a recipient. From that is drawn the signifier (the message), and the signified (the interpretation), as Saussure put it.

There is no simple sentence in the Bible that can be interpreted only one way, because when even the simplest lone sentence can be interpreted in a number of ways, when used in the context of a work as large and vast as the Bible, anaphora is impossible to avoid; put simply, every word is independent but at the same time always mutally coreferent.

 

[Tuffdisc]

It says what it says.

What is that?

 

[alice in chains]

it's not an interpretation. I'm basing my thoughts on what the bible actually says verbatim.

if you have to interpret it to make it make sense, then as the saying goes - "there's your sign".

everyone interprets something. You cannot know what the intentions were. There are christian's who donnot interpret the bible literally. So once again how is your opinion more relevant to reality than others??

 

[Peter Parka]

If you have to interpret the Bible to get it's true meaning it's pointless. How do you detirmine whose interpretation is correct? Because of that you have all sorts of different religions who claim to follow the bible.

 

[Johnfromokc]

Everything is written verbatim, of course. But no message can stand alone, no matter how clear. You need a recipient. From that is drawn the signifier (the message), and the signified (the interpretation), as Saussure put it.

There is no simple sentence in the Bible that can be interpreted only one way, because when even the simplest lone sentence can be interpreted in a number of ways, when used in the context of a work as large and vast as the Bible, anaphora is impossible to avoid; put simply, every word is independent but at the same time always mutally coreferent.

So you mean "The Lord of the Rings" is not actually a fantasy story about good v. evil and we should consult experts to interpret what JRR Tolkien really intended to say? :eek