Who Should We Invade Next?

[COOL_BREEZE2]

Seriously.. I thought CB was the only one who couldn't understand sarcasm in a post.. I even used italics!!!....

I saw that! :ninja

Thou callest mine name in vain. Altho tis true what you said.

And where is the AEF in all this?????

 

[COOL_BREEZE2]

A dictator government can take the form of a small group in tight control of the government.
The late Soviet Union is an example of this. It was not always under the thumb of Stalin. After Stalin it was still an oppressive form of government ruled by the politburo.
Then you have the nations like Vietnam, Cuba, N. Korea etc. Communism has failed when tried. It seems viable in theory but in practice it gives too much power to a government.

Agreed.

And not enough power to the people.

And agreed.

 

[Tim]

Hey guys, sorry for the sudden topic change, but I had a question from a few pages back.

Where is all that oil money we were promised from the invasion?

:24: Silly boy, we were never promised oil money...


When we say this war was about oil and money... well, it is... Just look at the astronomical profits the oil companies are turning... Don't kid yourself, the people who were supposed to get rich, did. And I'm not sure th word rich truly fits.

 

[COOL_BREEZE2]

:24: Silly boy, we were never promised oil money...


When we say this war was about oil and money... well, it is... Just look at the astronomical profits the oil companies are turning... Don't kid yourself, the people who were supposed to get rich, did. And I'm not sure th word rich truly fits.

1. Whose oil companies are you referring too?

2. How are those oil companies turning in astronomical profits? From more oil gotten from Iraq?

 

[Tim]

1. Whose oil companies are you referring too?

2. How are those oil companies turning in astronomical profits? From more oil gotten from Iraq?

All oil companies.

Nope. From the war itself.


You have to look at the history of our need for oil before the war and how Saddam played into that. If you look at what Saddam was planning to do and how it was going to hurt the US concerning our future energy needs, you would see that it was in the best interests of big oil and their partners to remove Saddam.
Take a moment and do a little research on Saddam and his pending deal with China, cutting out the US. Also look at his plan to trade oil in Euro's instead of the dollar. Then look at what big oil stood to lose in all of this and the response of the US government to that threat.

You will soon see the bigger picture as you read more about it.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

1. Whose oil companies are you referring too?

2. How are those oil companies turning in astronomical profits? From more oil gotten from Iraq?

Man....I want so bad to respond....But I have to remain neutral.

I work for Big Oil:ninja

 

[COOL_BREEZE2]

All oil companies.

Nope. From the war itself.


You have to look at the history of our need for oil before the war and how Saddam played into that. If you look at what Saddam was planning to do and how it was going to hurt the US concerning our future energy needs, you would see that it was in the best interests of big oil and their partners to remove Saddam.
Take a moment and do a little research on Saddam and his pending deal with China, cutting out the US. Also look at his plan to trade oil in Euro's instead of the dollar. Then look at what big oil stood to lose in all of this and the response of the US government to that threat.

You will soon see the bigger picture as you read more about it.

Tim, excuse me but I don't have time now or the next few days to go research this. You already know the information. Just list a few points to help me understand better. Let's see what I got so far from your post:

1, He was planning to do something to hurt the US concerning future needs. What was this?

2. He had a pending deal with China, cutting out the US. (Is this the same as in point "1"?

3. He was planning to trade oil in Euro's instead of the dollar.

Any other points to add?

 

[COOL_BREEZE2]

Man....I want so bad to respond....But I have to remain neutral.

I work for Big Oil:ninja

By all means respond Badboy. But give Tim a chance to respond first. I want to hear his take on it before proceeding further. If you could indulge me.

 

[Tim]

Tim, excuse me but I don't have time now or the next few days to go research this. You already know the information. Just list a few points to help me understand better. Let's see what I got so far from your post:

1, He was planning to do something to hurt the US concerning future needs. What was this?

2. He had a pending deal with China, cutting out the US. (Is this the same as in point "1"?

3. He was planning to trade oil in Euro's instead of the dollar.

Any other points to add?

Ok, from a simple standpoint of time, I will run down the list/history for you without links or documentation. I will support the information later.

While the US enforced sanctions on Iraq, pre 2001, Saddam was working a deal with the Chinese to supply them with oil for years to come. This would create a giant vacuum for the growing energy needs for the US in future years. The US/big oil had a very big stake in the oil reserves in Iraq, and if we lost that to China, we would be in big shit.
Now to add salt to injury... Saddam was also working on dumping the dollar and trading oil in Euro's. This would have been a double whammy for the US and our financial/energy interests.

Saddam has been removed, the oil is NOT going to China, oil will still be traded in dollars and the new government we set up in Iraq will sign oil sharing agreements into law are required by the Bush administration. These oil sharing agreements are the bread and butter for the US/big oil. They guarantee YEARS of supply at very low prices to us effectively cutting out the Chinese from the "worlds third" largest supply of oil.

Yes it was about the money/oil

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

By all means respond Badboy. But give Tim a chance to respond first. I want to hear his take on it before proceeding further. If you could indulge me.

Well Tim pretty much summed it all up.

Quite simply, Oil is "The Hand That Rocks The Cradle"

There was simply no way Bush was going to allow Hussein to follow through with his plan.

This explains why there is now so much tension once again between us and Russia, Putin has no problem supplying oil and gas to China, and of course this irritates GW, it is power brokering to a dangerous degree.

Part of our decision to assist in the Kuwait dispute had to do with Hussein jockeying to provide more supply to broker deals with China in the mid 80's.

Which of course is what got Hussein so hot with Sr., which hurt GW feelings. Nobody threatens his daddy:cool

 

[COOL_BREEZE2]

Ok, from a simple standpoint of time, I will run down the list/history for you without links or documentation. I will support the information later.

While the US enforced sanctions on Iraq, pre 2001, Saddam was working a deal with the Chinese to supply them with oil for years to come. This would create a giant vacuum for the growing energy needs for the US in future years. The US/big oil had a very big stake in the oil reserves in Iraq, and if we lost that to China, we would be in big shit.
Now to add salt to injury... Saddam was also working on dumping the dollar and trading oil in Euro's. This would have been a double whammy for the US and our financial/energy interests.

Saddam has been removed, the oil is NOT going to China, oil will still be traded in dollars and the new government we set up in Iraq will sign oil sharing agreements into law are required by the Bush administration. These oil sharing agreements are the bread and butter for the US/big oil. They guarantee YEARS of supply at very low prices to us effectively cutting out the Chinese from the "worlds third" largest supply of oil.

Yes it was about the money/oil

Right. That's what I was looking for Tim. Thanks. Very clear to understand.

Hmmm, seems to me Saddam had a damn good plan there by way of getting back at the USA for the years of sanctions. And also seeing about the interests at the time for his country re the santions and all. I'm assuming they would have gotten an equitable deal with China for the trade. What was China going to give them in return tho? Was it food or something that which they were being denied from the sanctions?

I could see how it would have impacted on the US.

I think the President of Venezuela is trying to go the way of trading oil in Euros similar to Saddam. At least that's what I think I remember.

 

[Tim]

The deals with China were in money. The sanctions weren't going to be in place forever... at least that's what they were banking on.

 

[COOL_BREEZE2]

Well Tim pretty much summed it all up.

Quite simply, Oil is "The Hand That Rocks The Cradle"

There was simply no way Bush was going to allow Hussein to follow through with his plan.

This explains why there is now so much tension once again between us and Russia, Putin has no problem supplying oil and gas to China, and of course this irritates GW, it is power brokering to a dangerous degree.

Part of our decision to assist in the Kuwait dispute had to do with Hussein jockeying to provide more supply to broker deals with China in the mid 80's.

Which of course is what got Hussein so hot with Sr., which hurt GW feelings. Nobody threatens his daddy:cool

I see. Frankly tho, with all this in mind, it may have had disastrous consequences had Saddam gone through with his plan. That being said, it really made good sense to stop him in his tracks.

So now you say there is tension with Russia for wanting to supply oil and gas to China? So what's wrong with if they want to do this seeing that the oil threat with Iraq has been removed? What does USA have against China getting oil?

 

[COOL_BREEZE2]

The deals with China were in money. The sanctions weren't going to be in place forever... at least that's what they were banking on.

Ok. So what Iraq was going to get in return for oil from China was just money?

But that still would not have addressed food and whatever else they were being deprived of from the sanctions? That don't make sense. I thought the deal would have gotten them relief from what they were being deprived of.

And with regard to that the sanctions were not going to be in place forever. Well who knows for how much longer the sanctions would have gone on for? Could have been many many more years to come.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

I see. Frankly tho, with all this in mind, it may have had disastrous consequences had Saddam gone through with his plan. That being said, it really made good sense to stop him in his tracks.

So now you say there is tension with Russia for wanting to supply oil and gas to China? So what's wrong with if they want to do this seeing that the oil threat with Iraq has been removed? What does USA have against China getting oil?

The only long term issue is enough fuel reserves to not only begin marketing energy themselves, but also fuel a potentially dangerous Navy..

That and regardless of what anyone says, you are talking about a "former" communist regime, getting in bed with a VERY communist regime.

Again, I know AEF, amongst some others will dispute that this is anything to worry about, I beg to differ.

I personally have no issues with nations becoming more self supporting and taking some of the assistance burden off our backs, but I have issues with seeing a power growing that can out muscle us. I really do not want to be enslaved by communist China...

It's bad enough being enslaved by a Rush Limbaugh US

 

[livvy7678]

Nobody!!!

 

[COOL_BREEZE2]

The only long term issue is enough fuel reserves to not only begin marketing energy themselves, but also fuel a potentially dangerous Navy..

That and regardless of what anyone says, you are talking about a "former" communist regime, getting in bed with a VERY communist regime.

Again, I know AEF, amongst some others will dispute that this is anything to worry about, I beg to differ.

I personally have no issues with nations becoming more self supporting and taking some of the assistance burden off our backs, but I have issues with seeing a power growing that can out muscle us. I really do not want to be enslaved by communist China...

It's bad enough being enslaved by a Rush Limbaugh US

It's a bit unfair tho that a country is not allowed to trade as they wish to serve the benefits of their country.

Tho, I hear what you say with regard to a "former" communist regime, getting in bed with a VERY communist regime re the fears. Still, they ought to be able to handle their affairs as they wish.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

It's a bit unfair tho that a country is not allowed to trade as they wish to serve the benefits of their country.

Tho, I hear what you say with regard to a "former" communist regime, getting in bed with a VERY communist regime re the fears. Still, they ought to be able to handle their affairs as they wish.

Agreed, but then we couldn't be tyrants now could we

 

[COOL_BREEZE2]

Agreed, but then we couldn't be tyrants now could we

Guess not.

 

[IntruderLS1]

:24: Silly boy,

Is that where we are now Tim? :smiley24:

As for the big deal about selling oil to China, was he even allowed to sell his oil? I was under the impression that the answer was mostly "no."

(Save for a bit on the black market here and there, and what it would take to keep his people in medicine and toilet paper.)