Where can you build an Islamic center?

[BornReady]

Opponents of a proposed Islamic center near Murfreesboro, Tennessee, filed a lawsuit in a Rutherford County court several weeks ago. Testimony started last week and is expected to continue through this Friday. Attorney Joe Brandon Jr. argued that Islam is not a recognized religion in the US and Sharia law equates to terrorism.

WTF? I thought Christians were more tolerant than Muslims in the US. But I've changed my mind.

Fortunately, the court isn't buying their BS. Chancellor Robert Corlew conceded to county attorney Jim Cope that Brandon has not established any proof, in four days of testimony, that local Muslims are in any way a threat. Today, federal attorneys offered legal proof in an amicus brief that Islam is a recognized religion entitled to constitutional protection.

 

[edgray]

Religious tolerance is simply an impossibility. Religion cuts off passages of debate with absolutes, so in that sense, it can never happen.

 

[Minor Axis]

If a country promotes freedom of religion, how the hell can people sue to stop religions from building structures? It's bullshit.

 

[BornReady]

Religious tolerance is simply an impossibility. Religion cuts off passages of debate with absolutes, so in that sense, it can never happen.

I know some religious people who are tolerant but it seems the majority are not. Everyone in my family is religious but me. The only tolerant ones in the bunch are my brother and sister-in-law. There are a few tolerant religious books out there. My favorite religious author is probably Bishop John Shelby Spong.

If a country promotes freedom of religion, how the hell can people sue to stop religions from building structures? It's bullshit.

It seems so obvious.

 

[Dana]

If a country promotes freedom of religion, how the hell can people sue to stop religions from building structures? It's bullshit.

:homo:

 

[The Man]

Opponents of a proposed Islamic center near Murfreesboro, Tennessee, filed a lawsuit in a Rutherford County court several weeks ago. Testimony started last week and is expected to continue through this Friday. Attorney Joe Brandon Jr. argued that Islam is not a recognized religion in the US and Sharia law equates to terrorism.

WTF? I thought Christians were more tolerant than Muslims in the US. But I've changed my mind.

Fortunately, the court isn't buying their BS. Chancellor Robert Corlew conceded to county attorney Jim Cope that Brandon has not established any proof, in four days of testimony, that local Muslims are in any way a threat. Today, federal attorneys offered legal proof in an amicus brief that Islam is a recognized religion entitled to constitutional protection.

I hope he pulls off the part in bold...Why?...so that cant claim special rights anymore such as walking around is disguise..not having proper child custody hearings...cutting clits off children..selling children etc
Europe is fucked because of muslim takeover.
Let them practice..but i do like the idea of it nor being recognized..its a fucked up religion IMO.
Sharia law is fucked up..this is what happens sharia law is the quran.
The quran is their bible.
The bible is their law {sharia law}
By not letting them live by {their law}.you are denying freedom of religion.
This has very bad implications that have resulted in areas of Europe etc

 

[Minor Axis]

I hope he pulls off the part in bold...Why?...so that cant claim special rights anymore such as walking around is disguise..not having proper child custody hearings...cutting clits off children..selling children etc
Europe is fucked because of muslim takeover.
Let them practice..but i do like the idea of it nor being recognized..its a fucked up religion IMO.
Sharia law is fucked up..this is what happens sharia law is the quran.
The quran is their bible.
The bible is their law {sharia law}
By not letting them live by {their law}.you are denying freedom of religion.
This has very bad implications that have resulted in areas of Europe etc

So you are promoting freedom of religion for the religions you believe in. Sharia law is based on a culture, (dominated by men btw) picking and choosing what they see in their Holy book and running/ruining their culture based on these choices. Fortunately one foundation of this country is separation of church and state. Although admittedly many of our laws have been based on Christian standards, we don't officially use the Bible as our legal rule book and won't every use it (despite fundamentalist attempts) until the Constitution is rewritten. I've been told the two Holy Books have about 75% overlap. Islam has just as much legitimacy as Christianity does. So lets disown Christianity while we are at it.

 

[Dana]

thus why im not religious

 

[The Man]

So you are promoting freedom of religion for the religions you believe in. Sharia law is based on a culture, (dominated by men btw) picking and choosing what they see in their Holy book and running/ruining their culture based on these choices. Fortunately one foundation of this country is separation of church and state. Although admittedly many of our laws have been based on Christian standards, we don't officially use the Bible as our legal rule book and won't every use it (despite fundamentalist attempts) until the Constitution is rewritten. I've been told the two Holy Books have about 75% overlap. Islam has just as much legitimacy as Christianity does. So lets disown Christianity while we are at it.

So you are promoting freedom of religion for the religions you believe in

Its not a religion as we see it...it is not harmonious with other religions,If you are not a muslim you are an infidel.

Sharia law is based on a culture, (dominated by men btw) picking and choosing what they see in their Holy book and running/ruining their culture based on these choices

Sharia law is based on the quran..muslims are for sharia law...cutting off a hand is not acceptable in the United States..so there practicing Islam is not acceptable.

Although admittedly many of our laws have been based on Christian standards,

Right...which doesnt include sharia law

I've been told the two Holy Books have about 75% overlap

The quran is much like our old testament...we dont use the old testament anymore for other than historics...as it is barbaric

Islam has just as much legitimacy as Christianity does.

Not unless they write a new testament.

So lets disown Christianity while we are at it.

If they start to live by the old testament..then yes I would agree

 

[Zorak]

Its not a religion as we see it...it is not harmonious with other religions,If you are not a muslim you are an infidel.

And Christianity or any other religion is? And infidel is a Christian concept too.

Sharia law is based on the quran..muslims are for sharia law...cutting off a hand is not acceptable in the United States..so there practicing Islam is not acceptable.

The majority of Islamic states don't practice that.

The quran is much like our old testament...we dont use the old testament anymore for other than historics...as it is barbaric

Have you read either? I have read both. There is no truth to this statement.

Not unless they write a new testament.

The Qu'ran is some 600 odd years the junior of the New Testament

If they start to live by the old testament..then yes I would agree

'They', or we, don't live by the Old, New or any testament. That's secularism, so comparing Western secular states to Eastern Islamic states is completely erroneous.
You'd be much better suited to making comparisons between majority atheist\Christian western states like in Northern Europe or North America and Eastern developed secular states like Turkey.

 

[Tim]

The amount of complete ignorance and intolerance of other religions astounds me.

 

[KimmyCharmeleon]

I believe everyone should have the right/freedom to practice their religion in any country without being persecuted by arseholes who accuse them of being terrorists. Asking a Muslim to turn Christian, pfft yeah right, like that's gunna happen. I haven't met a nasty Muslim in my life, and I think you'll realise that they know what to practice here and what not. Contrary to your belief, they are not stupid just because they don't come from America or some other Western culture!! There are a few mosques in Australia, not sure how many, and we are doing just fine. They didn't bring their law here, they're not bombing the place, they restrict some of the things they do in practice even. They don't disturb our neighbourhoods, why worry? You're only making enemies for yourself.

 

[The Man]

And Christianity or any other religion is? And infidel is a Christian concept too.



The majority of Islamic states don't practice that.




Have you read either? I have read both. There is no truth to this statement.




The Qu'ran is some 600 odd years the junior of the New Testament




'They', or we, don't live by the Old, New or any testament. That's secularism, so comparing Western secular states to Eastern Islamic states is completely erroneous.
You'd be much better suited to making comparisons between majority atheist\Christian western states like in Northern Europe or North America and Eastern developed secular states like Turkey.

And Christianity or any other religion is? And infidel is a Christian concept too.

Christians do not ask for death when one chooses not to be christian and choose another faith.
No sect of christian faith asks for such...When people of Islam faith choose to quit they fall under apostasy which many muslims suffer death for.

The majority of Islamic states don't practice that.

As we can see by the link below we in fact have many nations do indeed use sharia law

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b2/Countries_with_Sharia_rule.png

Have you read either? I have read both. There is no truth to this statement.

I have read enough to know the quran is along the lines of our old testament..and is far from being modeled after the new testament

The Qu'ran is some 600 odd years the junior of the New Testament

according to this source below we can date the quran back as far as the first century

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The earliest copy, which was exhibited in the British Museum during the 1976 World of Islam Festival, dated from the late second century. [Lings, M. and Y. H. Safadi: The Qur'an, London, 1976, No. 1A. See also plate 6] However, there are also a number of odd fragments of Qur'anic papyri available, which date from the first century.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Link for above
http://www.sunnipath.com/library/books/B0040P0012.aspx

'They', or we, don't live by the Old, New or any testament. That's secularism, so comparing Western secular states to Eastern Islamic states is completely erroneous.
You'd be much better suited to making comparisons between majority atheist\Christian western states like in Northern Europe or North America and Eastern developed secular states like Turkey.

I was discussing the quran being law...the quran states to live by the quran /the bible states to live under the law of the land....this is major
We dont live by the bible..our laws are modeled after the value system.
Sharai law hands out punishment from the Quran.
No where in the states here will you here a judge say..according to king james chapter xx verse xx you will suffer the punishment of.

Sharia punishments are handed out according to the quran.....thus the equivalent of us living before the new testament and suffering punishment form the old testament.

 

[The Man]

I believe everyone should have the right/freedom to practice their religion in any country without being persecuted by arseholes who accuse them of being terrorists. Asking a Muslim to turn Christian, pfft yeah right, like that's gunna happen. I haven't met a nasty Muslim in my life, and I think you'll realise that they know what to practice here and what not. Contrary to your belief, they are not stupid just because they don't come from America or some other Western culture!! There are a few mosques in Australia, not sure how many, and we are doing just fine. They didn't bring their law here, they're not bombing the place, they restrict some of the things they do in practice even. They don't disturb our neighbourhoods, why worry? You're only making enemies for yourself.

I believe everyone should have the right/freedom to practice their religion in any country without being persecuted by arseholes who accuse them of being terrorists.

Its not possible for Australia the country you mention denies many sects of muslim faith
as they are listed as terrorists.
I would also like to point out this list is considered a terrorist list and yes its all muslim but 1
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As of early June 2007 there were 19 organisations listed as terrorist organisations by the Australian government.[2] All but one of those organisations are associated to Islamic ideology. For listing, an organisation may be found to be such by a court as part of a prosecution for a terrorist offence or the same may be specified in regulations upon the motion of the Attorney-General of Australia.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Source
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_organisations_outlawed_in_Australia

Asking a Muslim to turn Christian, pfft yeah right, like that's gunna happen

Correct as many sects of islam dish out the death penalty

I haven't met a nasty Muslim in my life, and I think you'll realise that they know what to practice here and what not

You can thank your govt on doing their job for that

Contrary to your belief, they are not stupid just because they don't come from America or some other Western culture!!

I do not see in the thread where anyone has referred to them as stupid or questioned their intelligence

There are a few mosques in Australia, not sure how many, and we are doing just fine

The are not many, the percentage of Muslims is low...when the numbers increase you will then be like France ,Britain.Belgium,Netharlands
As more nations have more muslims they will also suffer.

 

[KimmyCharmeleon]

Its not possible for Australia the country you mention denies many sects of muslim faith
as they are listed as terrorists.
I would also like to point out this list is considered a terrorist list and yes its all muslim but 1
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As of early June 2007 there were 19 organisations listed as terrorist organisations by the Australian government.[2] All but one of those organisations are associated to Islamic ideology. For listing, an organisation may be found to be such by a court as part of a prosecution for a terrorist offence or the same may be specified in regulations upon the motion of the Attorney-General of Australia.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Source
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_organisations_outlawed_in_Australia


Correct as many sects of islam dish out the death penalty
You can thank your govt on doing their job for that

I do not see in the thread where anyone has referred to them as stupid or questioned their intelligence
The are not many, the percentage of Muslims is low...when the numbers increase you will then be like France ,Britain.Belgium,Netharlands
As more nations have more muslims they will also suffer.

Yeah and what you don't realise is is that blaming terrorism on Muslims is a big set up. I can turn Muslim right now if I want to. Would I then be a terrorist?
My Government isn't doing anything really. Islam is the fourth largest religious group in Australia. Remember that Australia is pretty diverse in many aspects.
So how will we suffer from Islam?
There's nothing harmful about them. Men and women, Muslim, I go to university with them. They sure sound like terrorists to me :sarcasm
And I re-state again, that it is not my Government's doing that 'we are so safe'. It's all about the West trying to get control over their resources. I am not just going to trust my Government because they are a higher power or authority. Believe it or not, religious intolerance is happening on a much larger scale.
I'm calling myself a fair and just person, because I'm not just going to believe some set up bullshit instigated by greedy corporate bastards.

 

[The Man]

Yeah and what you don't realise is is that blaming terrorism on Muslims is a big set up. I can turn Muslim right now if I want to. Would I then be a terrorist?
My Government isn't doing anything really. Islam is the fourth largest religious group in Australia. Remember that Australia is pretty diverse in many aspects.
So how will we suffer from Islam?
There's nothing harmful about them. Men and women, Muslim, I go to university with them. They sure sound like terrorists to me :sarcasm
And I re-state again, that it is not my Government's doing that 'we are so safe'. It's all about the West trying to get control over their resources. I am not just going to trust my Government because they are a higher power or authority. Believe it or not, religious intolerance is happening on a much larger scale.
I'm calling myself a fair and just person, because I'm not just going to believe some set up bullshit instigated by greedy corporate bastards.

Yeah and what you don't realise is is that blaming terrorism on Muslims is a big set up.

Set up?...not at all ..they are practicing jihad
Not common among Christians,Amish, Jehovah Witnesses etc..Muslims....Jihad

I can turn Muslim right now if I want to. Would I then be a terrorist?

That would be a choice...one thing for sure though with many sects you cant stop being a muslim without suffering death...so either way you lose

My Government isn't doing anything really

Sure they are I gave you a link to 18 muslim organizations and sects that are not permitted.
They keep your muslim population low and screen your muslims

Islam is the fourth largest religious group in Australia

Sounds big..but that is 1.71 percent for your country

Remember that Australia is pretty diverse in many aspects

With number for having less than 2 percent it appears as if its not very diverse

So how will we suffer from Islam?

When they reach numbers riots etc break out,demanding a no police area and use of sharia law.

There's nothing harmful about them. Men and women, Muslim, I go to university with them

Those are screened Muslims to make sure the are not of certain sects ...again thank your govt/..But inreality there are not that many at your UV remember they make up less than 2 percent of your populations...hardly fair for a sample

And I re-state again, that it is not my Government's doing that 'we are so safe

Do you propose they lift the restrictions of the 18 sects and groups?....your govt keeps you safe.
Were the Islamic attacks of the past to your country fake?

It's all about the West trying to get control over their resources.

No its about terrorists attacks...you propose terrorists are kept out of the country because we want their resources?...So i guess if we let them in and terrorize us then we dont want their resources?

Believe it or not, religious intolerance is happening on a much larger scale.

Muslims towards christians,in muslim nations,,such as church burings etc..correct you are.
If you however are inferring intolerance of muslims by the rest of the world,it is because of the actions,this didnt happen by way of lottery

I'm calling myself a fair and just person, because I'm not just going to believe some set up bullshit instigated by greedy corporate bastards

You are fair and just I agree.
Your last statement does raise a question however,are you suggesting corporations have set up a conspiracy of some sort ? Its all smoke and mirrors?

 

[The Man]

The amount of complete ignorance and intolerance of other religions astounds me.

I agree/
Its overplay and underplay
Muslims tend to underplay the reputation and some people overplay them.
Take the thread I had you close for me for instance..my source had took a situation and provided a false story with it...They more than likely repeated what they had read.
Upon me finding out the source to be very questionable I asked the thread to be closed.
I like to stick to facts and will gladly accept if I am wrong by way of mis informed source.
At the same time I also like for facts that are pertinent to not be disregarded and then be debated by a posters emotion rather than information

 

[KimmyCharmeleon]

Maybe I'll put it to you this way...
In your country, a very money-motivated country...

In 2007, the Department of Defence received $161.8 billion for a "war on terror", that kills 70 Americans each year apparently.
Whereas, in this same country, 450,000 people die from coronary heart disease each year. In 2007, the same year, only $3 billion was donated towards this disease.

So, your country spent 54 times the amount on preventing something that kills barely any people than spending it on a disease that kills 6600 times more people?

Before 1980, Afghanistan produced 0% of the world's heroin supply. Since the US/CIA backed Mujahideen, by 1986, it rose to 40% of the world's heroin supply.
By 1999, they were producing 80% of the total market supply.
The Taliban rose to power. By 2000, production dropped 94% (3000 tons to 185 tons).
But, then since September 11, now 90% of the world's supply is produced, breaking new production records yearly.

Seems like the US just used the September 11 attack as an excuse to try and take control over them.
One irrational way of thinking I have learnt about is the whole 'in-group out-group' bias thing. If somebody who is NOT in your 'group', and they do something socially unacceptable, then you are more likely to think that that is a part of their enduring character or personality. Hence, people are against Muslims, and they did one bad thing, and now people think this is "so natural of them", and they think that Muslims are all inclined to be terrorists.
Also, it is consistency bias to believe that people do not change since one event. For example, if I did something stupid two years ago, it is 'inconsistent' to believe that I would be stupid enough to do the same thing again.

It is only a very small minority of the Islamic religion/fundamentalists maybe?..who believe that the biggest sacrifice for Allah is to kill people. They get brainwashed with the wrong interpretation of the Qur'an.
Generalising this to the whole religious population of Islam is wrong.
We shouldn't just send troops into their countries, shooting at everybody, hoping to solve the problem, and trying to gain control over whatever. They're not incapable people and I'm sure they could set things straight for themselves if the West just left them alone.

A terrorist is someone who goes against the system you live in. I suppose this could include those 'bomber' peoples, I mean, they set up a bomb in your country and blow stuff up, yeah, they hate your system. Why? Because it so money-orientated and you just have to look at the damage that has been caused by your country's military action and irrational thinking (I guess this is the same for Australia too, not that I support this). You live in a country where the way you live or the people who run it don't give a shit about its own people, believe it, or not. People think "Oh, my Government, they are authority, I trust them not to do stupid stuff", people think just cause some big head honcho is running something that they are so right. Well that's not the case I'm afraid. You can't just accept everything you read in the newspaper, media, TV watching, etc. Hence why all this terrorism stuff is propaganda.

I admit I am no expert on this topic, but hopefully you get a little insight

 

[Zorak]

Christians do not ask for death when one chooses not to be christian and choose another faith.
No sect of christian faith asks for such...When people of Islam faith choose to quit they fall under apostasy which many muslims suffer death for.
As we can see by the link below we in fact have many nations do indeed use sharia law

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b2/Countries_with_Sharia_rule.png
I have read enough to know the quran is along the lines of our old testament..and is far from being modeled after the new testament
according to this source below we can date the quran back as far as the first century

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The earliest copy, which was exhibited in the British Museum during the 1976 World of Islam Festival, dated from the late second century. [Lings, M. and Y. H. Safadi: The Qur'an, London, 1976, No. 1A. See also plate 6] However, there are also a number of odd fragments of Qur'anic papyri available, which date from the first century.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Link for above
http://www.sunnipath.com/library/books/B0040P0012.aspx

I was discussing the quran being law...the quran states to live by the quran /the bible states to live under the law of the land....this is major
We dont live by the bible..our laws are modeled after the value system.
Sharai law hands out punishment from the Quran.
No where in the states here will you here a judge say..according to king james chapter xx verse xx you will suffer the punishment of.

Sharia punishments are handed out according to the quran.....thus the equivalent of us living before the new testament and suffering punishment form the old testament.

Since you've read 'enough' of the Qu'ran, I challenge you to find me where it says that thiefs have their hands cut off, and muslims who cease to practice are put to death. I look forward to this. I remind you I have a copy of the Qu'ran right here, and so any dodgy websites I can quickly disprove.

Secondly, that very link you gave me says the Qu'ran as it is today was written during Mohammed's life. The one they have in the egyptian musuem is from 688, 50 years after his death.
How can texts 500-600 years before the birth of Mohammed be considered the Qu'ran? They can't, is the answer.

 

[Minor Axis]

As we can see by the link below we in fact have many nations do indeed use sharia law.

I don't know how many ways you can be told and by how many people- The U.S. is a secular country that promotes freedom of religion. Islam is considered a mainstream religion. Islam is not equivalent to Shira Law any more than Christianity is equivalent to "stoning". Do we stone around here? No. Do we have religious based laws here? Well we used to but they seem to be going away regarding things like homosexual relationships and divorce. Although there are some energetic fundamentalist Americans who would love to see laws written based on their interpretation of the Bible, I really don't think that is going to happen. But using your logic it would be a good reason to ban Christianity right now, before they get their chance. No?

The alarm bells and revolution will start when some movement tries to turn this country into a theocracy. Then you will be banned for having any independent thinking.