Whats Wrong With Harry ???

[White2000GT]

It's not that I agree or disagree with your posts Lemon. Fact is, there are many things we disagree on just like there are many things we agree on. It's just that your attitude lately has been more abrasive than standard Navy issue toilet paper. There really was no reason for you to tell us to "just shut up" and "get the fuck over it". Try using some tact.
Maybe you weren't talking directly to me, but let me set one thing straight. I have never and will never push any of my ideals onto my kids. Well, let me change that. I have told my son numerous times that if he ever hits a woman that I will personally kick the shit out of him. I mean, he's only 9 now, but I wanted to start instilling respect for women into him at an early age just like my dad did to me. But, other than that, I haven't pushed any of my ideals onto my kids. I am all about letting them make decisions for themselves. Just as I am all about letting them know that when they do make their own decisions that they better be prepared to pay the consequences if they make bad ones.
So come on Lemon, go back to being your cool self. We miss that Lemon.

 

[lemon]

so, is it ok for a woman to hit a man? because, it isnt fair to expect a man not to hit a woman if a woman can hit a man. gotta teach the ladies that it isnt ok for a woman to hit a man either, if you teach a man not to hit a woman. i think its fine, should the hit be warranted - and yes, the warranted part could be discussed, but thats for another time...

if you miss the "cool" lemon - well, your shit outa luck, cuz that lemon is taking a hiatus. but i will attempt, and as such there will be no garauntees, to slim down the tart posts.

getting back to the discussion at hand - the reason why i said to shut the fuck up, is because you - the collective group of parents, not necessarily you - are trying to shove ideals down the throat of your children that you believe in, and thats why we still have racism, eliteism, feelings of superiority over someone else, et cetera. and yes, it can be traced back to the choice of books you want your children to read. let them read the books they want to - if they have questions, answer them in an objective way, not biased. but just let the little hell-raisers read what they want to read, not what you want them to read.

lets set up a hypothetical timeline.

say you tell your child, you can only read <some set of books> and nothing else, because for one, you dont agree with the way the author portrayed something. or hell, in the case of the harry books, the whole series itself is something you dont agree with.
sounds great as a parent, but think in the terms of the childs mind. "why does mommy and daddy only want me reading snow white?" why cant i read <such and such>?" this creates doubt in the child, and as parents, i do not think you would want such a small thing creat such a big issue - it could grow to something that could eventually end up as a life and death situation ... or maybe you are lucky, and never have to answer such a question from your child. but then you instilled your values in your child. you didnt allow the child to form their own values.

oh sure, we can preach tolerance, but the kids see other ideals happening. dont kid yourself - no pun intended there. the kids will learn values just based off of your actions, not just what you tell them. one such value that your kids might learn is that its ok to lie, because while you said that the harry potter books may not be good for your child, you yourself are reading every single one. not a great value to learn. or maybe you dont read the books, but you form your choice based on what another parent said. while you may agree with how that parent parents their child, thats a damn shitty way to teach children - by using other's way of teaching.

ok - im confusing myself, and losing track of the point i wanted to make here - ill quit for now.

 

[White2000GT]

And I'm confused now too.

 

[sharpies]

You cannot help but influence how your child grows up. I tried really hard but it is impossible to remove all influences, even if you want too.

Children will grow up with the massed influences of their parents, school, peers & society (TV, radio etc). This is also one of the ways that cultural differences are maintained whether you see that as good or bad.

Allan

 

[Tim]

Lemon, wtf are you talking about hitting women for? It isn't even part of the discussion. You lost me on that one completely.

As far as not pushing your values and ideas onto your children... How the hell can you raise a child without rules, guidelines, restrictions and values? As a good parent, it is vital that you raise your child with your values and core beliefs. It's not a damn free for all. What if your 6 year old child says that it is against his beliefs to go to school anymore, are you going to say "Ok, I don't want to impose my values onto you" and let him stay home? If a parent doesn't instill their core family values and pass on the knowledge that they themselves learned growing up, then they will learn it from sources outside the home. It will be a shot in the dark whether they turn out to be a murderer or a missionary.
They are children for gods sake, they are not little adults that can make their own life decisions. If left to their own accord, they would never make it in the world. A parents job is to love, guide, discipline, direct, and to teach their child good morals and values. This isn't a job for anyone else but the parent and a child cannot learn these things alone. As far as telling your child not to read a certain book, then reading it yourself. Don't do it in front of them, just like sex... I don't want my son or daughter having sex yet, they know I do it. I drive, but don't let my kids drive. I go to bars and clubs, but not them. There is a list as long as my arm of things I will not let my children do that I do. That doesn't make me a bad or contradiction parent. They know the reasons why as children, they cannot do certain things yet. Soon they will be old enough to go and do what they please, where I will have no say in their lives. If I have done my job right, and taught them good morals and values, they will be better equiped to make some of the hard life decisions that they will face each day. If you let your kids run your life and do as they please setting their own agenda, once they go into the real world and have to make it on their own, they will have a hell of a hard time making it. I prefer to teach them now.

 

[lemon]

your damn right. i would let my child not go to school. but later on it will hurt them because they dont have an education.

the reason i brought it up was because white said he doesnt shove stuff down his' kids' throats, except that it is wrong to for a man to hit a woman. well, if thats the case, then a woman should not be allow to it a man. i said that i think it is acceptable for both sexes to hit each other, if there is a reason for it.

"a good parent" is a subjective term. i plan of bringing up my children objectively. i will not instill values and core morals that i believe in, because that would violate what i believe in - not shoving shit down their throats. and if you think kids cant make up their own minds, why do you yell at them for stealing a cookie out of the cookie jar? if they cant make up their own minds, then you should be yelling at yourself.


a parent's job is to provide an environment for the child to grow, not tell them how to grow. plus, a parent is an adult ( or in some cases - younger idiots ) that now have to deal with consequences of having sex. not saying its a negative consequence, but a consequence nonetheless. when your child asks you "teach me to act like you" then you can help them understand your beliefs, or so that is how i will approach parenting.

by the way - "i want to grow up to be just like you" is also a way to let you know your child is ready to learn values and morals from you.

also - me letting my children run my life is not how its going to be. i will provide an environment for learning. not for shoving shit down throats, like you apparently are ready to do, or have done, or are currently doing.

trust me, my kids will learn on their own how to live their own lives, not to live an extension of my own life.

 

[Tim]

your damn right. i would let my child not go to school. but later on it will hurt them because they dont have an education.

the reason i brought it up was because white said he doesnt shove stuff down his' kids' throats, except that it is wrong to for a man to hit a woman. well, if thats the case, then a woman should not be allow to it a man. i said that i think it is acceptable for both sexes to hit each other, if there is a reason for it.

"a good parent" is a subjective term. i plan of bringing up my children objectively. i will not instill values and core morals that i believe in, because that would violate what i believe in - not shoving shit down their throats. and if you think kids cant make up their own minds, why do you yell at them for stealing a cookie out of the cookie jar? if they cant make up their own minds, then you should be yelling at yourself.


a parent's job is to provide an environment for the child to grow, not tell them how to grow. plus, a parent is an adult ( or in some cases - younger idiots ) that now have to deal with consequences of having sex. not saying its a negative consequence, but a consequence nonetheless. when your child asks you "teach me to act like you" then you can help them understand your beliefs, or so that is how i will approach parenting.

by the way - "i want to grow up to be just like you" is also a way to let you know your child is ready to learn values and morals from you.

also - me letting my children run my life is not how its going to be. i will provide an environment for learning. not for shoving shit down throats, like you apparently are ready to do, or have done, or are currently doing.

trust me, my kids will learn on their own how to live their own lives, not to live an extension of my own life.

So if your child doesn't want to go to school that's ok with you? You would allow that? A child does not know better, they are not muture enough to see why an education is important later in life. By not teaching your child the value of a good education, you are basically crippling them for the rest of their life. For what? So you can tell them later in life while they are struggling to survive, "At least I didn't shove my values down your throat"

My children will be here this week-end. I will let my 17 year old daughter tell you about her childhood. About the tough decisions she has already had to make in school and with her friends. I'll let her tell you how her life would be different if she didn't learn my values and morals growing up. Because without them, she would have made some very bad decisions already. She has told me about situations that she was able to walk away from because she knew right from wrong, based on the values she was raised with. Thank god, or I would be a grandfather right now. And I would have to raise her child too.

 

[lemon]

well, how about this:

go to school - make real and imaginary friends
dont go to school - make imaginary friends

doesnt seem to difficult for a child. have two types of friends, rather than only one type. most kids will go for that.

that is how i will approach it. give them options, not you do this and that is your only choice.

------------in any event---

you have your choice in parenting. which seems to be shoving morals and values down your kids' throat.

i will have my choice in parenting. which seems to be showing different choices and letting them decide.

how about we agree to disagree, and "get the fuck over it"?

 

[GuesSAngel]

well, how about this:

go to school - make real and imaginary friends
dont go to school - make imaginary friends

doesnt seem to difficult for a child. have two types of friends, rather than only one type. most kids will go for that.

that is how i will approach it. give them options, not you do this and that is your only choice.

------------in any event---

you have your choice in parenting. which seems to be shoving morals and values down your kids' throat.

i will have my choice in parenting. which seems to be showing different choices and letting them decide.

how about we agree to disagree, and "get the fuck over it"?

you're an idoit. Please don't think about having kids right now. God forbid that they should turn out like Bush. Because that's the direction that you're going with this. Have fun spending your weekends picking your kids up from jail as they're learning their "life lessons"

 

[lemon]

you're an idoit. Please don't think about having kids right now. God forbid that they should turn out like Bush. Because that's the direction that you're going with this. Have fun spending your weekends picking your kids up from jail as they're learning their "life lessons"

damn. you are so good. man, you should work as a fortune teller. man, so damn good. tim's a lucky man.

</sarcasm>

 

[GuesSAngel]

damn. you are so good. man, you should work as a fortune teller. man, so damn good. tim's a lucky man.

</sarcasm>

Thanks. I'm sure if you turn on your TV and look at your local paper, or even on the internet you'll find many kids fucking up and being put away in jail. These are the kinds of kids that weren't brought up with morals or values. Just because your parents made mistakes with you, doesn't mean that you should pass it on to your kids...and the only reason I'm saying that is because of your perception.

 

[Tim]

Yes I am a very lucky man. No sarcasim here

Having parents that shove shit down your throat is never a good thing, and I don't do that. But not teaching them right from wrong and setting up rules for them to follow will hurt them even more.

 

[lemon]

Having parents that shove shit down your throat is never a good thing, and I don't do that. But not teaching them right from wrong and setting up rules for them to follow will hurt them even more.

ok. then who gets to define what is right and what is wrong? you, as the parent, as you say. oh, then i guess you are shoving shit down your kids' throats, by telling them what you think is right and wrong. sheesh, you do not get it.

im done with this shit.

 

[GuesSAngel]

ok. then who gets to define what is right and what is wrong? you, as the parent, as you say. oh, then i guess you are shoving shit down your kids' throats, by telling them what you think is right and wrong. sheesh, you do not get it.

im done with this shit.

Okay, stop what youre doing...go outside and the first person that you see shoot them point blank between the eyes. That isn't wrong right? I mean I don't think I learned that from my parents? So that makes it right? After you're done shooting that person, why do you go into a school and kill some innocent kids while youre at it, i mean that's not wrong either, right? If parents don't teach kids the difference between right and wrong then where are they supposed to learn it? You do not learn the difference on your own.

What if the time comes and you decide to have kids, let's give an example...you have a six year old and a new born...well little kids will get jealous of new additions of the family. What if your six year old decides to go into the baby's room and hold a pillow over the baby's head and kills him? What are you going to say? "Well that's alright, at least you learned you're lesson and not to do it again...don't worry about it, mommy and I will try and have another baby...but just don't hurt that one?"

 

[andcuriouser]

There's a very big difference between teaching children proper morals and values, and "shoving it down their throats".

Growing up I was one of those children who had his parent's beliefs shoved down his throat. It certainly caused a lot of problems. I'm positive I would have been better off had I been allowed more choices. But I do believe that I would be even worse off had I been given every single choice presented to me. Essentially, what you are saying, Lemon, is that you would abandon your child. Not physically, but it would still be a form of child abandonment. You would not be providing a child with the boundaries he or she needs to learn and grow and develop healthily.

The thing is, while children should certainly be allowed free rein to learn and grow and develop, it is also important to provide boundaries, so that they can do so safely, and without jeapordizing their futures. Children are not mature enough to just be set loose. My godson is turning six soon, and he is in no way mature enough to be making serious decisions about anything, really. Hell, he can't even decide what he wants for lunch, let alone anything marginally important to his future development.

 

[TheOriginalJames]

My children will be allowed to pursue whatever religion they choose, be it mine (Wicca) or any other religion they feel fits for them. They will be given an impartial description of what each believes in thanks to the internet.

As for books, they will be allowed to read whatever they choose, and encouraged to read as much as possible about any subject they choose so long as it is within their capacity. No need to allow a child to read a book that has thousands of words that they wouldn't understand unless they crossreferenced a dictionary.

I will never hold my children back from something that cannot hurt them. Harry Potter stories are simply that. Fantasy stories. They contain extremely possible situations (boy losing parents, raised with nasty relatives, going to school, learning, making friends/enemies, ect.) wrapped in a fantasy container. It doesn't make it bad, it just makes it more entertaining, which is why those books exist.

wanna get married and make babies?

I agree with every single word you typed here.

 

[OUZBnd]

Lemon, you have no fucking clue what you are talking about. Your rationale about the world is horrible. You are the the same as the professor I have that thinks he know everything about the world, but really he is just feeding himself a line bullshit which makes him sound smart to himself (himself being the key word here). Grow the fuck up and realize your not the next Einstein. It's pathetic how hard you try sometimes to have this "unique" view, and be different than everyone else. Don't try so hard to sound smart and be different.

 

[White2000GT]

Seriously Lemon, your logic is messed up. I can understand since you don't have kids and you don't know how hard it is to raise kids and to have the constant worry on your mind about their safety and well-being. I have three young kids, so I know how that feels. And Tim even moreso than me since he has teenagers.
I respect the fact that you are a free-thinker, but I really hope your attitude changes if/when you have kids. If you honestly think you will be able to raise kids the way you are saying in your posts... well, you will have a rude awakening when Child Protective Services knocks on your door and takes your kids from you because of neglect. Because that is what your attitude is boiling down to. You may see it as letting your children think for themselves, but everyone else will see it as neglect.

 

[elluko]

This gettin intense!

 

[PrincessJettMicheyl]

wanna get married and make babies?

I agree with every single word you typed here.

Gotta move here, first...