What to do with Criminal kids?

[porterjack]

i would like to see some return of power to the victims

if there is a lot of victimisation of property through vandalism, theft etc
then i would like guilty made responsible to restore things, repairing, scrubbing graffiti, working off debt by cutting grass, painting, fixing ( with supervision from local authority) - there has to be consequence for action

leave rape, assault and the like up to the courts the above should be manageable locally

 

[Peter Parka]

My opinion is that the parents should be punished for the child's crimes.

The've already been doing this. It dosen't work and is crap. We've had parents being sent to prison because their 15 year old keeps bunking off school. How are they supposed to MAKE their teen get to school other than by physical force where the'd be running the risk of getting done for assault? The law is sending out mixed messages and parents are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

 

[Peter Parka]

I don't know about Borstals, a training ground for delinquents if there ever was one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAifvU8IQps

Definitely some kind of nation service, not necessarily army related. I read an interesting interview with Andy McNabb or Bravo Two Zero fame. He was a young troublemaker and being packed off to the army was his salvation. He strongly recommends it.

Well not like Scum obviously but a strict boot camp style prison.

 

[edgray]

The've already been doing this. It dosen't work and is crap. We've had parents being sent to prison because their 15 year old keeps bunking off school. How are they supposed to MAKE their teen get to school other than by physical force where the'd be running the risk of getting done for assault? The law is sending out mixed messages and parents are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Imprisonment for not turning up to school seems like a stupid idea to me.

I would think this would apply for serious crimes. Vandalism should result in the parents getting a hefty fine. Rape, should see the parents placed on community service along with the offender. Manslaughter or Murder should result in prison sentences.

Well not like Scum obviously but a strict boot camp style prison.

Agreed. I think it should be more like a work camp too - why not utilise the manpower for the good of society?

 

[Peter Parka]

Imprisonment for not turning up to school seems like a stupid idea to me.

I would think this would apply for serious crimes. Vandalism should result in the parents getting a hefty fine. Rape, should see the parents placed on community service along with the offender. Manslaughter or Murder should result in prison sentences.

So if you're a parent, maybe in bad health, quite small and /or physically weak and your strapping 6 feet tall 15 year old son goes out to graffiti walls, please tell me how you are supposed to stop him?

 

[edgray]

So if you're a parent, maybe in bad health, quite small and /or physically weak and your strapping 6 feet tall 15 year old son goes out to graffiti walls, please tell me how you are supposed to stop him?

well, if the kid has been raised with love and care and treated well by his parents, he should respect their decisions. He also wouldn't want his parents to get a community order slapped on them for his crimes.

in the example you mentioned, the parent should call the police.

 

[Peter Parka]

well, if the kid has been raised with love and care and treated well by his parents, he should respect their decisions. He also wouldn't want his parents to get a community order slapped on them for his crimes.

in the example you mentioned, the parent should call the police.

And what if, despite his upbringing, he dosen't respect his parents decision? It's not unknown, you know.
And for your second point, you are assuming his parents know what he's up to when he goes out. I seriously doubt many teenagers go out saying "see ya, I'm just off to mug a pensioner"

 

[edgray]

And what if, despite his upbringing, he dosen't respect his parents decision? It's not unknown, you know.
And for your second point, you are assuming his parents know what he's up to when he goes out. I seriously doubt many teenagers go out saying "see ya, I'm just off to mug a pensioner"

yeah that's actually a good point. But surely we're talking in the serious minority here.

So, back to the example, his parents, old and frail, get banged up. Do you not think that might wake the kid up into changing his ways?

My parents knew where I was off to. If I lied I got a beating. It wasn't worth the risk. I'm not saying that all kids should be raised like that, but loving parents tend to have more honest relationships with their children. Just from my experience, anyhow.

 

[AUDRAA]

Oh shit I knew I should have stayed out of this thread, hey Ed Im not trying to start a fight with you, but have some of your own children then come back and tell me how its your fault if your kid goes astray ok......

 

[AUDRAA]

yeah that's actually a good point. But surely we're talking in the serious minority here.

So, back to the example, his parents, old and frail, get banged up. Do you not think that might wake the kid up into changing his ways?

My parents knew where I was off to. If I lied I got a beating. It wasn't worth the risk. I'm not saying that all kids should be raised like that, but loving parents tend to have more honest relationships with their children. Just from my experience, anyhow.

oh so Im not a loving parent because my kid went thru a rough patch tread carefully dear

 

[Peter Parka]

yeah that's actually a good point. But surely we're talking in the serious minority here.

I doubt the minority is that minute but it still shows a fundamental flaw, your plan would punish innocent people for things which are completely beyond their control.

 

[edgray]

I doubt the minority is that minute but it still shows a fundamental flaw, your plan would punish innocent people for things which are completely beyond their control.

well I still don't believe it's beyond their control.

Social workers, police, neighbours, other family members could be brought into explain to the youngster what will happen should he continue on his path.

It would work best, I think, with a kind of 1st strike: fine, 2nd Strike: Community Service, 3rd Strike: Prison or some kind of hard labour farm

 

[Peter Parka]

well I still don't believe it's beyond their control.

Social workers, police, neighbours, other family members could be brought into explain to the youngster what will happen should he continue on his path.

It would work best, I think, with a kind of 1st strike: fine, 2nd Strike: Community Service, 3rd Strike: Prison or some kind of hard labour farm

If you believe that how a child turns out is completely controlled by their upbringing, you're living in a very deluded world, I'm afraid.

 

[edgray]

If you believe that how a child turns out is completely controlled by their upbringing, you're living in a very deluded world, I'm afraid.

No of course it's not and I have never said it was. But it should, in a healthy family, be the main cause behind how a child turns out. Obviously society has a part to play, school, the kids friends etc etc.

The less parents have in terms of influence over their children, the worse parents they are.

 

[Zorak]

I don't know about Borstals, a training ground for delinquents if there ever was one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAifvU8IQps

NO! NO! NO! PLEASE NOOOO! :24::24::24::24::24:

Funniest film ever.

 

[Peter Parka]

No of course it's not and I have never said it was. But it should, in a healthy family, be the main cause behind how a child turns out. Obviously society has a part to play, school, the kids friends etc etc.

The less parents have in terms of influence over their children, the worse parents they are.

So all bratty teenagers are like that because they had bad parents? I'm sorry, I completely disagree with you, I went off the rails and my parents were strict and loving.
Good luck questioning your bad parenting and being willing to get a criminal record for something you didn't do though when you finally have a teenage kid who goes off the rails somewhat.

 

[edgray]

So all bratty teenagers are like that because they had bad parents? I'm sorry, I completely disagree with you, I went off the rails and my parents were strict and loving.
Good luck questioning your bad parenting and being willing to get a criminal record for something you didn't do though when you finally have a teenage kid who goes off the rails somewhat.

well there's a difference between being a bratty teenager (totally acceptable, and a common occurrance) and a social menace/criminal which is what we're talking about here.

My eldest brother and I eventually went off the rails in our mid to late teens, but we didn't cause any damage to others or society. If a child of mine were to do so, I would take responsibility (which any parent should)

 

[freakofnature]

I think Ed has a point. If a child is raised properly there is a better chance that they will turn out well. But to apply this to every case is flawed. There is just no accounting for some children. Some of them just have a mind of their own. Then the question becomes at what point is a child held solely responsible for his/her actions?

 

[edgray]

I think Ed has a point. If a child is raised properly there is a better chance that they will turn out well. But to apply this to every case is flawed. There is just no accounting for some children. Some of them just have a mind of their own. Then the question becomes at what point is a child held solely responsible for his/her actions?

you can't apply it to every case, but I think it fits the majority.

a child can be held solely responsible for their actions when they reach adulthood.

 

[AUDRAA]

Oh youre both so right I guess I took the illegal drugs my son was using and forced them up his nose because I was such a shitty parent. Oh and if Id have been punished what kind of lesson would that really have taught him again? I thnk me taking thing into my own hands made him more accountable than if the court would have sent me to jail for possesion of a drug I didnt do.