What say you about evolution and creation.

[Valentin]

I believe that aliens altered our ancestors DNA to create us.

 

[lumpenstein]

I believe you just post bullshit just to get a reaction.

 

[Valentin]

Belief does not effect reality. If that's all you have to say, then we may as well cease communications. If you're interested in talking about the theory, then go ahead.

 

[siasl]

Belief does not effect reality. If that's all you have to say, then we may as well cease communications. If you're interested in talking about the theory, then go ahead.

ok....i love science fiction, and this notion has always intrigued me...but it also strikes me as being just as humanocentric as relgion.....

the universe is a big place....what the fuck is so special about the earth (from the standpoint of an alien species) that they'd wanna mess with dna here?

or do you see it as the result of some vast intragalatic research?....a sort of "god is really not all powerful....just pretty dang powerful, if you include the technology of space flight and genetic manipulation"

i mean, the "what ifs" are great fun to consider....but really.....why is this third option any more acceptable than the god option?

 

[Minor Axis]

I believe that aliens altered our ancestors DNA to create us.

Without any kind of proof, anything is possible.

ok....i love science fiction, and this notion has always intrigued me...but it also strikes me as being just as humanocentric as relgion.....

the universe is a big place....what the fuck is so special about the earth (from the standpoint of an alien species) that they'd wanna mess with dna here?

Planets that support life are few and far between?

or do you see it as the result of some vast intragalatic research?....a sort of "god is really not all powerful....just pretty dang powerful, if you include the technology of space flight and genetic manipulation"

i mean, the "what ifs" are great fun to consider....but really.....why is this third option any more acceptable than the god option?

Aliens vs God are really two different arguments. However from the available evidence both are just as possible or not possible depending on your perception and your faith. My opinion is we have more evidence for aliens flying around in our skys then we do of a specific God with specific attributes.

 

[Valentin]

ok....i love science fiction, and this notion has always intrigued me...but it also strikes me as being just as humanocentric as relgion.....

the universe is a big place....what the fuck is so special about the earth (from the standpoint of an alien species) that they'd wanna mess with dna here?

or do you see it as the result of some vast intragalatic research?....a sort of "god is really not all powerful....just pretty dang powerful, if you include the technology of space flight and genetic manipulation"

i mean, the "what ifs" are great fun to consider....but really.....why is this third option any more acceptable than the god option?

I'd really like to put my thoughts on this in their own thread. Stay tuned.

 

[siasl]

Planets that support life are few and far between?

Aliens vs God are really two different arguments.

i can see the truth in this....but disagree....certainly, considering specific religous perspectives, the two are miles apart.....

but as an outsider to both beliefs, what strikes me are their similarities....how the human species has some special place in the scheme of life....and how our intelligence is the prime result of that specialness...a gift from a being far beyond our understanding.

to accept that aliens intervened once is to assume, imo, that they are still capable of, and do, intervene as they choose...which presupposes that if you prayed to them, they might take notice.

the only significant difference is the behavior that a religious perspective dictates as important for eternity.

However from the available evidence both are just as possible or not possible depending on your perception and your faith. My opinion is we have more evidence for aliens flying around in our skys then we do of a specific God with specific attributes.

:nod:

but we have no evidence what so ever that sometime in our evolution, our dna was purposefully tweaked in the direction of rational thought.

a better arguement could perhaps be made that rational thought, for all that it has done to influence the direction and success of our species, has, as maybe its fatal flaws, an on/off button that is too hard to find, and a lack of filters that can separate the wheat of logic from the chaff of denial.

but then, this, too is another thread.

 

[Minor Axis]

i can see the truth in this....but disagree....certainly, considering specific religous perspectives, the two are miles apart.....

but as an outsider to both beliefs, what strikes me are their similarities....how the human species has some special place in the scheme of life....and how our intelligence is the prime result of that specialness...a gift from a being far beyond our understanding.

That's human psychology at work as we've always thought we were special. At one point we were at the center of the Universe. Now we realize we aren't because our study of science disproved that notion. What else will science disprove? lots.

to accept that aliens intervened once is to assume, imo, that they are still capable of, and do, intervene as they choose...which presupposes that if you prayed to them, they might take notice.

/////
but we have no evidence what so ever that sometime in our evolution, our dna was purposefully tweaked in the direction of rational thought.

a better arguement could perhaps be made that rational thought, for all that it has done to influence the direction and success of our species, has, as maybe its fatal flaws, an on/off button that is too hard to find, and a lack of filters that can separate the wheat of logic from the chaff of denial.

The entire aliens altered our DNA accusation at this point in time, based on the lack of evidence is just a thrilling fantasy as far as I can tell. But I do remember those space ship glifs from ancient Egypt.

 

[lumpenstein]

Belief does not effect reality. If that's all you have to say, then we may as well cease communications. If you're interested in talking about the theory, then go ahead.

Fuckin' awsome!!! :thumbup You cease and I will continue talking actual sense with the people here that show intelligence! Why don't you go run and play. Start a makeup thread!

 

[siasl]

That's human psychology at work as we've always thought we were special. At one point we were at the center of the Universe. Now we realize we aren't because our study of science disproved that notion. What else will science disprove? lots.

but my point is that evolution, like cosmology, debunks the psychology of human nature.....and it is the only one of these theories that does so

as a sidebar, the idea of the "psycology of human nature" speaks to the lack of filters i mentioned earlier, imo

imo, these other theories are the result of human psychology...they both have wonderful appeal, depending on the perceptions and faith you mentioned....they both answer tons of questions and give the whole question of "purpose" something "tangible" to hang its hat on (evidence be damned )

in that sense alone, they are worth thieir wieght in conciousness for billions of people...they cannot and should not be dismissed, regardless of one's opinions surrounding them (not saying you are....just saying)

The entire aliens altered our DNA accusation at this point in time, based on the lack of evidence is just a thrilling fantasy as far as I can tell.

yeah...like i said, i love science fictions

But I do remember those space ship glifs from ancient Egypt.

it is a wonderful and mysterious place, and we are wonderful and mysterious critters...what will future anthropologists say about our stuff?

 

[lumpenstein]

but my point is that evolution, like cosmology, debunks the psychology of human nature.....and it is the only one of these theories that does so

as a sidebar, the idea of the "psycology of human nature" speaks to the lack of filters i mentioned earlier, imo

imo, these other theories are the result of human psychology...they both have wonderful appeal, depending on the perceptions and faith you mentioned....they both answer tons of questions and give the whole question of "purpose" something "tangible" to hang its hat on (evidence be damned )

in that sense alone, they are worth thieir wieght in conciousness for billions of people...they cannot and should not be dismissed, regardless of one's opinions surrounding them (not saying you are....just saying)


yeah...like i said, i love science fictions


it is a wonderful and mysterious place, and we are wonderful and mysterious critters...what will future anthropologists say about our stuff?

"Our ancestor were a lot of ignorant, suspicious loonies! Look at this newspaper. Horoscopes! Muahahaha!"

 

[Valentin]

Montezuma predicted his demise by reading the stars. You need to be a lot more open minded.

Also, Van Donikken isn't the authority on ancient astronaut theory idiots like you believe him to be.

 

[lumpenstein]

Montezuma predicted his demise by reading the stars. You need to be a lot more open minded.

Also, Van Donikken isn't the authority on ancient astronaut theory idiots like you believe him to be.

Who believes him to be an authority? I haven't seen anybody here champion his cause. He was debunked as a fraud right after his book came out. It is classified under "Pseudoscience". It is in the same category as Astrology and Phrenology. Anybody believing this tripe should go back to school and get deprogrammed.

 

[Valentin]

He's the only well known proponent of the theory that has been debunked. Honestly, i don't think that you're very well versed in it, considering your argument is "it's filed under pseudoscience".

 

[lumpenstein]

He's the only well known proponent of the theory that has been debunked. Honestly, i don't think that you're very well versed in it, considering your argument is "it's filed under pseudoscience".

I am very well versed in it. I read the original book and I have the refutation here in my library. The book is called Chrash Goes the Chariots by Clifford Wilson, M.A., B.D., PhD. Lancer Books, 1972

Look up pseudoscience. He applies.

 

[siasl]

Montezuma predicted his demise by reading the stars. You need to be a lot more open minded.

well, if this is addressed to me, you have no idea how open or closed minded i am.....a couple of posts won't tell you much....

what those posts might have told you is that i'm a skeptic....it takes more that somebody in a forum telling me that Montezuma predicted his demise by reading the stars to open my mind to whatever the point was you were trying to make by saying that.

a follow up to lump's (if you prefer lumpenstein, lemme know) crack about astrology?
i don't have a lot of interest in it, but people who are into can it identifiy the qualities of a person they don't know pretty well
i mean, i fit the popular definition of a virgo (as i've been told it is) pretty damn well

...whether that has to do with the alignments of stuff "out there" or something more earthbound, i dunno....or much care, one way or the other.

Also, Van Donikken isn't the authority on ancient astronaut theory idiots like you believe him to be.

.....now this...
it must be directed toward lump
and i'd ask that -even if your "professional" opinion ends up that i'm an idiot, you don't go calling me names in this forum....unless i end up liking you, in which case, i won't give a shit

 

[lumpenstein]

well, if this is addressed to me, you have no idea how open or closed minded i am.....a couple of posts won't tell you much....

what those posts might have told you is that i'm a skeptic....it takes more that somebody in a forum telling me that Montezuma predicted his demise by reading the stars to open my mind to whatever the point was you were trying to make by saying that.

a follow up to lump's (if you prefer lumpenstein, lemme know) crack about astrology?
i don't have a lot of interest in it, but people who are into can it identifiy the qualities of a person they don't know pretty well
i mean, i fit the popular definition of a virgo (as i've been told it is) pretty damn well

...whether that has to do with the alignments of stuff "out there" or something more earthbound, i dunno....or much care, one way or the other.

.....now this...
it must be directed toward lump
and i'd ask that -even if your "professional" opinion ends up that i'm an idiot, you don't go calling me names in this forum....unless i end up liking you, in which case, i won't give a shit

I don't remember calling you or anybody else an idiot. All I am saying is read the literature. Nobody Takes Von Daniken seriously in scientic circles. It has also been shown how he faked certain photographic evidence to fit his "theory".

It is also absurd to think that six billion plus people on this planet can be pidgeon-holed into only twelve categories.

 

[siasl]

I don't remember calling you or anybody else an idiot.

hold on there....didn't i quote Valentin?

are you two trying to confuse the new guy?

All I am saying is read the literature. Nobody Takes Von Daniken seriously in scientic circles. It has also been shown how he faked certain photographic evidence to fit his "theory".

don't think i said anything about that poor smuck, either

It is also absurd to think that six billion plus people on this planet can be pidgeon-holed into only twelve categories.

why?.....christain want 'em pidgeonholed into just one!
seriously....did i say anything more than astrologists do a good job of identifying qualities of people they don't know (fwiw, it's only my perception, too).....oh, yeah.....i said i don't care much, one way or the other.....

 

[lumpenstein]

hold on there....didn't i quote Valentin?

are you two trying to confuse the new guy?



don't think i said anything about that poor smuck, either



why?.....christain want 'em pidgeonholed into just one!
seriously....did i say anything more than astrologists do a good job of identifying qualities of people they don't know (fwiw, it's only my perception, too).....oh, yeah.....i said i don't care much, one way or the other.....

Exactly. It is still bullshit.

 

[lumpenstein]

Sorry; I meant to include this. Studies have been made on identical twins born on the exact same day and time. It is interesting that they can demonstrate completey different personalities and life spans. Astrology does not hold true and has no credibility.

It is more power of suggestion. I worked with a young guy once that always flipped to the horoscopes every morning before starting work. He came in one day all cheerful and turned to the horoscope page and suddenly his face dropped. "I'm going to have a shitty day!" he said, and was depressed the rest of the day.