What kind of God would....

[Minor Axis]

I have long thought that it is morally reprehensible to do "good" out of fear of punishment or hope for reward. I've also found it repugnant to think of God as some being that passes out blessings and punishments, likened more to Santa Claus, to be loved or reviled for that which we have been given or denied.

tim :eek

The problem with some Christians is they think that if they are good and that if God is responsive to their prayers, he will take care of their most serious Earthly problems. And when he does not, they lose faith as in they were betrayed. That is not realistic.

First off, there is no way any logical person can reach this conclusion as in too many good things happen to bad people and too many bad things happen to good people. If there is a divine force called God, it does not micromanage out lives rewarding the good and punishing the bad, at least during their lives on Earth. Not to say there could not be events where some cosmic process does not sway the outcome. For example if 1000 people prayed for something, through the power of their minds, who knows?

Secondly, if you believe in the concept of "soul", and you understand your human life is just a fraction of a second in comparison to eternity, then it could be a good assumption that any reward if there is a reward, comes in the afterlife.

Third, if you are Christian or not (I'm not) your life on Earth should be viewed as an opportunity to learn and become a better person in the face of adversity, nothing more.

 

[hart]

Interesting post. Myself, I haven't ever figured it out. I have trouble with "blind faith". If there is a God and he/she wants us to believe blindly, why did he/she give us brains. Why didn't he/she simply make us "Stepford wives".

I too have been guilty of asking God to intervein during difficult times, like my mother dying. I didn't equate it to asking Santa, I felt like what the Hell (hmm ironic, eh) praying won't hurt.

I too have always had trouble with the concept of seeing horrific events and blindly feeling well there must be a purpose God has.....

I mean if there really was a Jesus and he was part human, I wonder, when he was being nailed and left on the cross for days to die....do u think he didn't Rant about his fate? Or was his "holiness" enuf to simply accept it?

If there is reincarnation I want to come back as one of my much spoiled cats

 

[Guyzerr]

I hope you got that... God allows things to happen,

Ya I got but what I still want to know is why God allows bad shit to happen to children. They don't have the option of making choices to be in that position.

I could type on this post for hours, but I think you were obviously just trying to respond hoping I would not.

I unsubscribed to this thread ages ago. I never get an answer to my question about children so it's pointless as far as I'm concerned. As far as hoping you wouldn't respond that is so far from reality it's not even funny. I was hoping you would give me a sensible answer to my question. You chose not to because you don't have one.

I posted 3 emails that I check daily, along with telling you to IM or email me, but you chose to not do so.

This is a forum, not a place to initiate a conversation to be carried over into IM, e-mail or by any other method. If you choose not to check back in that's your issue, not mine. If you don't have the time to play then get out of the sandbox.

You may have just not thought about it and just wanted to post, but if you reply, please email me. This is the first time I've been on this thread since my original post.

See above. If you do come back feel free to answer my question. If you can't, don't want to or refuse to then don't bother to reply at all.

And by the way, I was not raised in church, nor in a good home.... so for the record, I've had my share of hard times(as have all of you I'm sure), and bad things happening, and I will trust God through it all.

That's your right. Just don't try and ram that shit down my throat.

 

[Guyzerr]

I don't have enough conviction or passion to carry this conversation, so I'll sit back awhile. I just hafta note how all sides like to take lines from the Bible almost at random regardless of the context to help make their points.

Not me.

 

[Leananshee]

My answer to the question about God letting children or anyone else we hold dear die has been the same all along:

Don't expect miracles from God. God doesn't operate outside of the general laws that govern the universe. Whether through its design or that of the universe's, all living things including people are born to die, some sooner than others. What we consider to be "fairness" does not factor in to that.

Nor does our belief or unbelief really matter as to whether what we call God exists or not. We experience it or we don't. Personally, I have felt a higher power that connects me with who and what's around me, helps me experience joy and deal with loss alike. I don't and will never shove that down another's throat, as you say, mostly because it's impossible to do so. Your experience of it, or lack thereof, is completely your choice and affair alone.

Perhaps you've had bad experiences with people who do try to aggressively push religion? I certainly have. To them I've always said that if the salvation they so wish to have, according to them, is a gift that can't be purchased, why is it necessary to offer up all these hails and hosannas to a God that apparently doesn't really need them? Why is a relationship with such a being transactional, filled with "I want"s? Is that the only kind of God the "Me generation" can stomach?

tim :eek

 

[Minor Axis]

Ya I got but what I still want to know is why God allows bad shit to happen to children. They don't have the option of making choices to be in that position.

Because it's not God's job to protect children from the shit that happens on Earth. They are experiencing life, the good and the bad. The evidence is all around. Or should all children have great lives and then the shit starts when they become teenagers?

 

[All Else Failed]

That makes no sense, since Christians claim to be saved by miracles.

 

[Minor Axis]

That makes no sense, since Christians claim to be saved by miracles.

I'm not a Christian and I'm trying to clear up the confusion another person, possibly a Christian or former Christian is having. I can't say why it is like that, but the evidence is abundant that God (if it exists) does not protect faithful humans or innocent children from adverse events during their lives. If the reward is heaven, why should you be protected at all during your life? Your here to jump in and experience it. Nothing ventured (or risked), nothing gained. What I'm saying is plausible, maybe a Christian would have a better way of saying it.

 

[Leananshee]

Not all of 'em. Don't get me wrong, belief and prayer have been shown independently to have a healing effect, but I wouldn't recommend it in lieu of a doctor.

tim :eek

 

[Minor Axis]

Not all of 'em. Don't get me wrong, belief and prayer have been shown independently to have a healing effect, but I wouldn't recommend it in lieu of a doctor.

tim :eek

So does a placebo. Inner positive feeling make a difference regardless of how you get those feelings.

 

[All Else Failed]

Not all of 'em. Don't get me wrong, belief and prayer have been shown independently to have a healing effect, but I wouldn't recommend it in lieu of a doctor.

tim :eek

Placebo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Leananshee]

And this invalidates belief and prayer how? Hell, I didn't even mention belief in what or prayer to what. You know, acupuncture was once considered voodoo, but its use is fairly commonplace now. If prayer has a positive effect on someone's healing, why not use it as part of treatment if a patient desires it?

Really, some of you that feel compelled to jump on anyone who has a slight religious leaning really ought to get a hobby.

tim :eek

 

[Minor Axis]

And this invalidates belief and prayer how? Hell, I didn't even mention belief in what or prayer to what. You know, acupuncture was once considered voodoo, but its use is fairly commonplace now. If prayer has a positive effect on someone's healing, why not use it as part of treatment if a patient desires it?

Really, some of you that feel compelled to jump on anyone who has a slight religious leaning really ought to get a hobby.

tim :eek

Relax, I'm just discussing a topic, no hard feelings, no jumping on you!

I'm not saying that prayer and belife is invalidated from the aspect that it can make you feel good or even heals you. I'm only saying there is no proof that healing has positive effects because of divine intervention. It could just be the unknown power you possess within you that you don't realize you have. This is the same process that makes placebos work, because individuals think something is happening, like medicine is healing them, in actuality they are the ones that make it happen. Then again maybe the divine is working through you. Who knows?

 

[flopstock]

It was man that proclaimed god to be perfect, not god.

Personally, I prefer some imperfection. That means there is still some hope for the rest of us.