sierrabravo
Active Member
i say that torture is only justifiable after the person has been proven guilty, ya know?
What are your thoughts on torture?
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If you capture someone who is willing to put a bomb on their chest and blow up a school bus full of nuns and children, and they believe that will get them into heaven, then I don't think you're going to get any infomation out of him by asking him nicely and giving him a lawyer.
I don't think it should be done on a regular basis, but only in exceptional situations. Take Khalid Sheikh Mohammed for example, he masterminded 9/11. I think it's reasonable to say he must have some knowledge of upper level Al Qaeda operations, and I'm perfectly fine with doing whatever it takes to get actionable intel from him.
If we capture a kid with an AK on the street, I'd say the odds of him having any worthwhile intel to provide us with are negligible and I wouldn't condone torturing him.
I don't think it should be done on a regular basis, but only in exceptional situations. Take Khalid Sheikh Mohammed for example, he masterminded 9/11. I think it's reasonable to say he must have some knowledge of upper level Al Qaeda operations, and I'm perfectly fine with doing whatever it takes to get actionable intel from him.
If we capture a kid with an AK on the street, I'd say the odds of him having any worthwhile intel to provide us with are negligible and I wouldn't condone torturing him.
Under that definition reading your posts constitutes torture. Oh! The Pain!
Alien Allen
Froggy the Prick
Damn hippie peacenics
:homo:
GameCrazed
In Memoriam
Strauss- You're stupid.
Oh, wait...you're right.
Oh, wait...you're right.
Alien Allen
Froggy the Prick
Thank you for proving my point. Oh! The Pain!
torture debates confuse me a little......in this day and age of terrorist insurgents who'll happily behead a civilian in front of television cameras for the world to see,information got using these methods could be vital in stopping such things
put it like this,if torture leads to information of a plot to explode a dirty bomb in a sports stadium containing 70'000 people is the act justified?
put it like this,if torture leads to information of a plot to explode a dirty bomb in a sports stadium containing 70'000 people is the act justified?
torture should never be used. it doesn't work for getting truthful statements... and if you hate or want to hurt someone that bad then just kill them and get it over with, otherwise you are just as bad if not worse than the person you are torturing.
GameCrazed
In Memoriam
I meant I was trying to torture you. o_o And why is the other guy in on this?
PS: Can you tell me why I'm wrong now?
PS: Can you tell me why I'm wrong now?
Blanket statements tend to be wrong. Not all forms of waterboarding constitute torture. As a result your blanket statement shows that you are ignorant about the subject or are easily lead by the liberal mass media. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt
D) and assert that you are ignorant about the subject.
Alien Allen
Froggy the Prick
That is a pretty broad statement which I don't think is accurate. I am not for torture for the sake of pleasure or to get a confession but if it means lives are saved and it is done such as waterboarding it should be allowed.
You talkin about me Willis??
I can not really say why. Otherwise I would get an infraction :24:
Accountable
Well-Known Member
An infraction ........ that's a whole number, right?
GameCrazed
In Memoriam
Um, they're trying to cause these people pain, right? And this pain is excessive enough the suicide bombers are willing to give up crucial information against the group they're suicide bombing for, right?
How is that not torture. Oh, that's right. They're just drowning.
You support what's being done to the enemy, but you won't call it torture at risk of putting a stigma on it. And you assumed I was in opposition even though I never said such, and you were all too quick to pass me off as "another liberal". What the fuck does that mean, specifically anyway?
Sounds to me like ypou're the one swayed by political-based media.
How is that not torture. Oh, that's right. They're just drowning.
You support what's being done to the enemy, but you won't call it torture at risk of putting a stigma on it. And you assumed I was in opposition even though I never said such, and you were all too quick to pass me off as "another liberal". What the fuck does that mean, specifically anyway?
Sounds to me like ypou're the one swayed by political-based media.
Assuming that this rambling response is to my post:
Oh! My! Temper temper. Waterboarding does not inflict physical pain if performed as detailed in the CIA memos. Slapping and smacking their face into the wall constitute more physical pain than waterboarding.
Now let's talk about reading comprehension. Words have meanings, a series of words in a row tend to convey thoughts or ideas. With that in mind lets see what I wrote:
Now, did I say you're a liberal? No, I did not. I said you may have been easily lead by the liberal media. But your response to my posts confirms my assertion about the ignorant part.
This is getting boring. GameCrazed, you get the last retort, think of something good.
I'd have to agree with this POV personally. I don't like torture, but if there's a high probability we could gain information that would save lives, I'm all for it. But, it definitely needs to be done with intelligence and integrity - not just to any old person who might have some information.
Do you have proof to back up your claim that torture doesn't work? I don't have proof to say that it does, just that I've heard that it sometimes works and saves lives.
Minor Axis
Well-Known Member
As a philosophy torture should not be used to gather intelligence. However, this may shock some of you, but I can imagine a circumstance where torture could be justified, the Jack Bauer/24 scenario. The key word is could.
The circumstance is when a fact is known, but a missing piece of info is needed or a city will evaporate in a mushroom cloud. An example is you know with 100% certainty that a bomb has been armed, you have the person in custody who is directly involved and if you don't get him to tell you, the city will be destroyed. I'd have a hard time saying torture would not be appropriate in this case even torture to the death. However there is no guarantee that you'd get accurate info even in this case. If the torture-ee was a zealot, he might give you the wrong info just to ensure there is enough time for the bomb to go off.
The real problem with torture as a policy is that it's used as a fishing trip trying to get info about something you can only guess at or in the case of the Bush Administration was authorized for among other reasons to confirm a connection you imagine such as Iraq being behind 9/11. I posted this in a separate thread but it applies here. Read the following then answer these questions:
Question: Is this detainee telling the truth?
Question: Is there anyone here who actually thinks this is an effective means of gathering accurate intelligence??
-------------------
Detainee strapped on to board.
"Ok, tell us about Iraq and the 911 attacks."
"I don't know what you are talking about."
Gurgle, Gurgle, Gurgle.
"Ok now tell us about Iraq and 911!"
"I don't know!"
Gurgle, Gurgle, Gurgle.
"If you don't tell us, we might kill you!"
"I..."
Gurgle, gurgle, gurgle.
"Ok, stop, yes Iraq was behind it!"
The circumstance is when a fact is known, but a missing piece of info is needed or a city will evaporate in a mushroom cloud. An example is you know with 100% certainty that a bomb has been armed, you have the person in custody who is directly involved and if you don't get him to tell you, the city will be destroyed. I'd have a hard time saying torture would not be appropriate in this case even torture to the death. However there is no guarantee that you'd get accurate info even in this case. If the torture-ee was a zealot, he might give you the wrong info just to ensure there is enough time for the bomb to go off.
The real problem with torture as a policy is that it's used as a fishing trip trying to get info about something you can only guess at or in the case of the Bush Administration was authorized for among other reasons to confirm a connection you imagine such as Iraq being behind 9/11. I posted this in a separate thread but it applies here. Read the following then answer these questions:
Question: Is this detainee telling the truth?
Question: Is there anyone here who actually thinks this is an effective means of gathering accurate intelligence??
-------------------
Detainee strapped on to board.
"Ok, tell us about Iraq and the 911 attacks."
"I don't know what you are talking about."
Gurgle, Gurgle, Gurgle.
"Ok now tell us about Iraq and 911!"
"I don't know!"
Gurgle, Gurgle, Gurgle.
"If you don't tell us, we might kill you!"
"I..."
Gurgle, gurgle, gurgle.
"Ok, stop, yes Iraq was behind it!"
BadBoy@TheWheel
DT3's Twinkie
Torture is defined by the UN as anything capable of causing permanent physical damage.
Waterboarding doesn't do that...
I know this, it's been happening since early times, just seems like the polyannas don't want to deal with it once they see it on TV.
We all want freedom, success and safety, but we aren't willing to do what's needed to keep it
Waterboarding doesn't do that...
I know this, it's been happening since early times, just seems like the polyannas don't want to deal with it once they see it on TV.
We all want freedom, success and safety, but we aren't willing to do what's needed to keep it
That's right. Instead of 'college pranks' like at Abu, we should be hacking off fingers a joint at a time. None of this sexual humiliation crap or messing w/kids or waterboarding or hooding & electrodes et al.
Just start hacking stuff off til they talk. I bet they'll tell you they've seen Santa Claus up close & personal. Really. Or wait, it was Iraq that was responsible for September 11th. Or was it Afghanistan? Pakistan? Iran?
Just start hacking stuff off til they talk. I bet they'll tell you they've seen Santa Claus up close & personal. Really. Or wait, it was Iraq that was responsible for September 11th. Or was it Afghanistan? Pakistan? Iran?
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