Was Jesus a victim of self aggrandizing suicide?

[BornReady]

I can't help but think that given time, things accepted as true (even in today's "modern times") could be proven to be false.

It's almost certain some things scientists accept today will be proven false. This is an ongoing process. In this way science keeps getting closer to the truth. It is the process of discovery which makes science exciting.

 

[cam elle toe]

OK...I have to ask because every time I see the thread title it confuses me.

If its already been asked I apologise, but I cant be arsed going back through nine pages.

Isnt it (the thread title) a misnomer in itself? How can you be a "victim" of suicide in the first place...let alone a self aggrandising one....:willy_nilly:

(I hope thats not TOO blonde a question, but its been bugging me)

 

[Sparkey Duck]

Isnt it (the thread title) a misnomer in itself? How can you be a "victim" of suicide in the first place...let alone a self aggrandising one....:willy_nilly:

Under classification of law (in England at least) the person who commits suicide is a victim of the act... The fact that they committed the act themselves makes no difference as they are still a 'victim' of their own actions.

 

[Greatest I am]

OK...I have to ask because every time I see the thread title it confuses me.

If its already been asked I apologise, but I cant be arsed going back through nine pages.

Isnt it (the thread title) a misnomer in itself? How can you be a "victim" of suicide in the first place...let alone a self aggrandising one....:willy_nilly:

(I hope thats not TOO blonde a question, but its been bugging me)

Life usually wants to keep living. Suicide is an inclination to end life.
It should be natural then for those who wish to maintain life to think that those who go against this trend to be a victim of that condition.
The victim may not see it this way if his reasons for seeking death have overridden the desire for life.

The self aggrandizing aspects, in this case, is that the overriding factor was one of wanting to become the savior and hero of the whole world.

Regards
DL

 

[rback33]

Life usually wants to keep living.

Life is its own entity now? Can I invite it to dinner?

Suicide is an inclination to end life.

Suicide would be more than an inclination. I would be a successful result.

It should be natural then for those who wish to maintain life to think that those who go against this trend to be a victim of that condition.

This assumes knowledge of the thoughts of others. That's a dangerous notion.

The victim may not see it this way if his reasons for seeking death have overridden the desire for life.

I might agree with this.

The self aggrandizing aspects, in this case, is that the overriding factor was one of wanting to become the savior and hero of the whole world.

Who said he wanted to do it? I believe this makes assumptions none of us are capable of comprehending.

 

[Panacea]

Life is its own entity now? Can I invite it to dinner?

I think it is, if "life" just means the living. He may be referring to the thought that living things has survival instincts. Not sure

Suicide I guess would be a massive failure or deformation of those instincts?

 

[rback33]

I think it is, if "life" just means the living. He may be referring to the thought that living things has survival instincts. Not sure

Suicide I guess would be a massive failure or deformation of those instincts?

I completely agree with you here.

 

[Greatest I am]

Who said he wanted to do it? I believe this makes assumptions none of us are capable of comprehending.

Dogma says he was sent to be our savior.

It is B S but then, that is what most dogma is.

Regards
DL

 

[rback33]

Dogma says he was sent to be our savior.

It is B S but then, that is what most dogma is.

Regards
DL

You failed to answer the question. I quoted you. You said he WANTED to. The you replied the above which in no way shape or form proves my original quote of your pen. You should really try these debates when you are truly educated on what you are choosing to believe. It's obvious you are in the infancy here and can only spew rhetoric with no cognitive dissection of your own. As I previously have stated, I will not feed the trolls. As of this post I am done helping you choke on your own tongue.

 

[Joe the meek]

The self aggrandizing aspects, in this case, is that the overriding factor was one of wanting to become the savior and hero of the whole world.

What Bible do you read?

Please refer to when Jesus was in the Garden of Gethsemane. Although one could argue on how people knew exactly what happened due to the fact that the disciples fell asleep, it does portray Jesus in a different light compared to other parts in the Bible in respects to how sure he (Jesus) was about his destiny.

Also remember that Jesus DID NOT HAVE TO DIE, but the people chose him to die, not Barabbas.

 

[sexysadie]

Life usually wants to keep living. Suicide is an inclination to end life.
It should be natural then for those who wish to maintain life to think that those who go against this trend to be a victim of that condition.
The victim may not see it this way if his reasons for seeking death have overridden the desire for life.

The self aggrandizing aspects, in this case, is that the overriding factor was one of wanting to become the savior and hero of the whole world.

Regards
DL

I certainly don't mind thinking of Him as my hero. And if you could wrap your brain for one second around what he truly did for us........you would as well.

 

[Greatest I am]

You failed to answer the question. I quoted you. You said he WANTED to. The you replied the above which in no way shape or form proves my original quote of your pen. You should really try these debates when you are truly educated on what you are choosing to believe. It's obvious you are in the infancy here and can only spew rhetoric with no cognitive dissection of your own. As I previously have stated, I will not feed the trolls. As of this post I am done helping you choke on your own tongue.

I did not think you would actually mind thinking for yourself.

Jesus is shown to be able to do miracles. if you think that such a man with access to miracles would ever do what he does not want then you are not much of a thinker.


Further, if he did not want to die and be our savior then he would not have waited around for the kiss of death that he knew was coming.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

What Bible do you read?

Please refer to when Jesus was in the Garden of Gethsemane. Although one could argue on how people knew exactly what happened due to the fact that the disciples fell asleep, it does portray Jesus in a different light compared to other parts in the Bible in respects to how sure he (Jesus) was about his destiny.

Also remember that Jesus DID NOT HAVE TO DIE, but the people chose him to die, not Barabbas.

Did Jesus not predict his death at the last super?

Did he not wait around for the kiss of death that he foretold of?

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

I certainly don't mind thinking of Him as my hero. And if you could wrap your brain for one second around what he truly did for us........you would as well.

Listen to what intelligent moral people think of substitutionary punishment.

If someone robs you and the wrong party is thrown in jail, will you feel safe around the real perpetrator?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYaQpRZJl18&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-91mSkxaXs


Ezekiel 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.


Psalm 49:7
None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

Regards
DL

 

[Panacea]

Also remember that Jesus DID NOT HAVE TO DIE, but the people chose him to die, not Barabbas.

This is interesting, as I have heard many people of faith say that Jesus was born to die this way and it was not preventable, maybe I am misinterpreting your statement?

 

[sexysadie]

Listen to what intelligent moral people think of substitutionary punishment.

If someone robs you and the wrong party is thrown in jail, will you feel safe around the real perpetrator?


Regards
DL

So, I'm immoral and stupid because I believe otherwise? I don't think so babe!! First of all, nobody was robbed....I have no idea what you're even referring to with that one...lol...and second....Jesus is our path to Heaven, He's the bridge that connects us with God. ( he's not taking the blame for our sins)

 

[Joe the meek]

This is interesting, as I have heard many people of faith say that Jesus was born to die this way and it was not preventable, maybe I am misinterpreting your statement?

Well, first off, for whatever reason, the people picked Jesus to die. Fact is, the law who had Jesus didn't think he should be put to death, but since they didn't want to upset the local crowd, they let them decide who should be put to death.

Then again, our own feeble minds can only comprehend death so far, even if we believe in a Heaven. Case in point, ask a person of faith what heaven would be like, and I'm certain you'll get so many different answers that you're head will spin. Is there a great light? Is there a St Peter at some pearly gates? Is it one big beer party? For myself, Will Rodgers summed it up pretty good when he said "if there are no dogs in Heaven, I want to go where they went".

 

[sexysadie]

Well, first off, for whatever reason, the people picked Jesus to die. Fact is, the law who had Jesus didn't think he should be put to death, but since they didn't want to upset the local crowd, they let them decide who should be put to death.

Then again, our own feeble minds can only comprehend death so far, even if we believe in a Heaven. Case in point, ask a person of faith what heaven would be like, and I'm certain you'll get so many different answers that you're head will spin. Is there a great light? Is there a St Peter at some pearly gates? Is it one big beer party? For myself, Will Rodgers summed it up pretty good when he said "if there are no dogs in Heaven, I want to go where they went".

True, there IS no brochure, God doesn't send us pictures to peek our interest, He just promises us everlasting life in His kingdom where we will find peace. To suggest that animals don't go to Heaven would be suggesting that human beings are His only creation...not to mention the fact that canine loyalty and affection often times put human fidelity and friendship to shame...js

1 Corinthians 2:9
But it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him.

 

[Joe the meek]

To suggest that animals don't go to Heaven would be suggesting that human beings are His only creation...not to mention the fact that canine loyalty and affection often times put human fidelity and friendship to shame...

I'll agree about your comment referring to the loyalty and affection shown by dogs (at least a well socialized dog), but I don't think it's fair to compare a dogs friendship to human fidelity. The difference IMO is humans should know better than to propagate when they shouldn't, but animals don't know the difference.

Like I always say, throw your dog and your wife in the trunk of the car and lock it for 24 hours. Open up the trunk a day later and see who is happy to see you

 

[sexysadie]

I'll agree about your comment referring to the loyalty and affection shown by dogs (at least a well socialized dog), but I don't think it's fair to compare a dogs friendship to human fidelity. The difference IMO is humans should know better than to propagate when they shouldn't, but animals don't know the difference.

Like I always say, throw your dog and your wife in the trunk of the car and lock it for 24 hours. Open up the trunk a day later and see who is happy to see you

Yes, but who'd visit you in the hospital afterwards?..:24: