Virginia House vote states life starts at conception

[The Man]

People will never agree.

I agree...so that makes you wrong

 

[Mercury]

He/she is absolutely and undeniably a living human being, and as such deserves every protection we give every other citizen of our country.

Having said that, .......... I posted this in another forum but I haven't been able to improve on it, so I'll paste it here.

I was in a conversation with a coworker and very close friend and the issue of abortion came up. Now, I want you to understand that I know - more than believe - that a human being is a human being long before (s)he is born, draws breath, or has a discernible heartbeat. A zygote is a human by scientific definition, with DNA identifiably unique from other humans. This human has two parents, a father and a mother, both of whom have equal responsibility for producing him/her, and ought to have equal say in any decisions about him/her.

But nature doesn't work that way. Nature assigns definite and different roles regarding the early development of a child that can't be ignored.

Sparing you the details of how I came to this decision, here is the crux:

Given:
Parents are legally responsible for making the decision of whether to keep a child on life support or to turn the machine off. When the life support is provided by a man-made machine, that decision is and should be borne equally by both parents.

Given:
A human is dependent upon life support provided by the mother. The baby/zygote/fetus/whatever cannot survive without the apparatus, and the apparatus cannot function outside of the mother.

Therefore:
The decision of whether the new human remains on the natural life support provided by the womb can only be made by the mother.

Any other option is a violation of liberty resulting in what can only be described as slavery, which is illegal.

It sucks. It bites. It shouldn't be that way. But there it is. Research in the transplanting of a human, removing him/her from the womb of a woman who does not want him/her and placing him/her in the womb of a willing mother, is therefore the most important research that should be done today, and the only research I personally would support my tax dollar going to.

This is really well put. :thumbup

 

[Big Al1]

The thing about the religious right and crazy assholes like Santorum is, they'd like to lead you to believe it's common to use abortion the first line of birth control, and that partial birth abortions are common, and that it's common for men to cry in their beers because their women go off killing their sons as they plead to be a father.

These are emotional, inflated arguments- they are not reality. That's really the only problem I have with the anti-choice movement. The false information. If one is informed about what actually happens in the real world regarding abortion, and they oppose, that's their opinion and I have nothing to say.

Typical left wing rhetoric and lies.

 

[Accountable]

This is really well put. :thumbup

Thanks!

 

[Minor Axis]

No one has stated that all abortions are partial birth abortions...

Your post said "abortion explained" linking a video about "partial birth abortions".

If you are so sure of yourself then why not "engage".

Because I'm under no obligation to satisfy you and I've all ready voiced my opinion on the subject.

 

[clancy]

The only problem I have with abortion is taxpayers shouldn't have to pay up because some dumb broad doesn't know how to use birth control.

 

[The Man]

Your post said "abortion explained" linking a video about "partial birth abortions".
.

The partial birth method as well as the dismemberment are both explained in the video.

You stated prior that it was your understanding that partial birth abortions are only performed when the mother is in danger.

How is she in any less danger by killing the baby when part of the head is still in...and you impale "cepts" in the hollow of the lower skull to destroy the brain../verses having the head come the rest of the way out?

 

[brieze]

The only problem I have with abortion is taxpayers shouldn't have to pay up because some dumb broad doesn't know how to use birth control.

Well that's a narrow view point.

What about the 12 year old girls that get raped by their uncles. Those dumb broads.

 

[clancy]

Well that's a narrow view point.

What about the 12 year old girls that get raped by their uncles. Those dumb broads.

Where I live dumb broads are more common than incest. Maybe it is common where you are.

 

[The Man]

Personally I am Pro-Choice, I think the decision is the woman's, hopefully the father's, and her doctor. The government should not be in the middle, but crazy Republican's like Santorum don't think you should be able to use birth control either. He's a scary asshole. That said, I don't think couples as a rule should be using abortion as birth control. What I find amusing is the religious right's insistence that human cells are sacred and must be allowed to be born, but then they don't care about the circumstances into which a baby is born and they definitely don't want to be bothered with this human being later if they need help... we fought for your life, now you can go live in the gutter... it does not quite add up imo.

I think the decision is the woman's, hopefully the father's, and her doctor.

The father has no choice..as far as the doctor he will determine which method to use..he doesnt partake in right or wrong.
It comes back to the woman..
Sure..its her body..a very weak argument many make..the babies body however is the babies body.

The government should not be in the middle

Sure they should...this prevents horrific deaths of babies by dismemberment and or impaling the brain to a live baby.

but crazy Republican's like Santorum don't think you should be able to use birth control either

I agree/birth control isnt murder,,its prevention.

That said, I don't think couples as a rule should be using abortion as birth control.

But havent you stated you are prochoice?

What I find amusing is the religious right's insistence that human cells are sacred and must be allowed to be born

Is it amusing that they also dont believe in other murders as well?

but then they don't care about the circumstances into which a baby is born and they definitely don't want to be bothered with this human being later if they need help

Sure they do..first off they want the baby born...adoptions etc can be arranged.
A baby shouldnt be killed just because the parents are pieces of shit

 

[brieze]

Where I live dumb broads are more common than incest. Maybe it is common where you are.

You missed the point.

 

[BleedingBull]

I'm pro life, I only "support" abortion if its rape or when the mother could die etc, I cant see whats so hard about either shutting your legs, or slapping on a franger or popping a pill to avoid it in the first place. There are enough people that cant concieve that would take them into their homes, nine months out of a females life for been careless is hardly a sacrifice in comparison to having a chance at life taken away, she can hand it to the father if she doesnt want it, they dont get a say and thats unfair. Its a shame though that adoption is so hard to do unless its an overseas baby.

 

[Minor Axis]

The only problem I have with abortion is taxpayers shouldn't have to pay up because some dumb broad doesn't know how to use birth control.

So your cool with the killing part, just not using taxpayer money to do it...

The partial birth method as well as the dismemberment are both explained in the video.

You stated prior that it was your understanding that partial birth abortions are only performed when the mother is in danger.

How is she in any less danger by killing the baby when part of the head is still in...and you impale "cepts" in the hollow of the lower skull to destroy the brain../verses having the head come the rest of the way out?

Are you dense or being obtuse? Partial birth and dismemberment (which I don't even know if they do the latter) are not the only types of abortions and you ARE disingenuous by trying to frame the discussion in those terms. You are focused on a technical procedure only a few doctors in the nation are qualified to perform, and already only performed in precisely the emergency circumstances under which it is still defensible to perform it. The vast majority of abortions are performed in the first trimester, but apparently you don't want anyone thinking or discussing that. Although you don't have to tell me. I all ready know your against abortions, period.

 

[Panacea]

I cant see whats so hard about either shutting your legs, or slapping on a franger or popping a pill to avoid it in the first place.

Simplistic, but not true to the grey areas of life. No birth control method is 100% effective. There will always be a small group of cases where all precautions were taken correctly and a pregnancy still occurs. Some may not decide to terminate, but those who do should be allowed to imo.

There are enough people that cant concieve that would take them into their homes

Not true at all, there is a surplus of abandoned children of all ages in this world. No one is taking them into their homes.

 

[Niamh]

I believe life begins at conception

 

[Niamh]

I'm pro life, I only "support" abortion if its rape or when the mother could die etc, I cant see whats so hard about either shutting your legs, or slapping on a franger or popping a pill to avoid it in the first place. There are enough people that cant concieve that would take them into their homes, nine months out of a females life for been careless is hardly a sacrifice in comparison to having a chance at life taken away, she can hand it to the father if she doesnt want it, they dont get a say and thats unfair. Its a shame though that adoption is so hard to do unless its an overseas baby.

I agree with that, it's not a very popular opinion these days though!

 

[Dana]

We all have beliefs... That doesn't make them fact.

 

[Dana]

I'm pro life, I only "support" abortion if its rape or when the mother could die etc, I cant see whats so hard about either shutting your legs, or slapping on a franger or popping a pill to avoid it in the first place. There are enough people that cant concieve that would take them into their homes, nine months out of a females life for been careless is hardly a sacrifice in comparison to having a chance at life taken away, she can hand it to the father if she doesnt want it, they dont get a say and thats unfair. Its a shame though that adoption is so hard to do unless its an overseas baby.

Because NOTHING is 100% in contraception... For fuck sakes people who have been fixed still get pregnant.

 

[Niamh]

We all have beliefs... That doesn't make them fact.

I never said it did, just like yours isn't fact either

 

[Niamh]

Because NOTHING is 100% in contraception... For fuck sakes people who have been fixed still get pregnant.

That's the risk you decide to take though when you have sex...........imo of course.