USA: Are You Proud Of Your Country? I'm Not!

[Minor Axis]

I can agree to that. :clap

Friends! :smiley31:

 

[Maldoror]

Regarding the first Gulf War, the U.S. did not turn against Iraq until it invaded Kuwait. Don't kid yourself, practically every country on this planet has alliances with other philosophically less worthy countries (in the eye of the beholder). As far as I know, the U.S. has done nothing to support Mubarak in the current crisis. The U.S. is happy to see the potential for democracy so my guess it's going to stand by and watch.

i just stated they flipped against him, they supported Mubarak for 30 years. I am not kidding myself, you just fail at having a memory.

 

[Meirionnydd]

The fact that Iraq harbored them. They knowingly harbored Al-Queda. That's why we attacked.

No, Iraq did not harbor Al-Qaeda, there is absolutely no proof of this. In fact, Osama Bin Laden hated Saddam. After Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990, Osama Bin Laden met with key officials from the Saudi government and offered to enlist a force of mujaheddin fighters over the border to attack Saddam's forces. Obviously his offer was rebuffed, and the house of Saud accepted the deployment of Western forces in Saudi Arabia.

The point being of course, Iraq never harbored Al-Qaeda, and I challenge you to provide proof of this. Excluding statements made by Bush administration of course, because that's not really a reliable source.

There's many reasons why Iraq was attacked, and none of the 'official' reasons are justified when held up to close scrutiny

You fuck with us we fuck with you. Its like when you get in a fight at a bar. The guy swings on you, you stomp his ass and you're the bad guy.

It's exactly like a fight at a bar. But in your scenario, not being content with kicking the ass of the instigator, you proceed to go their house, rape his wife, beat his children, and then finishing off by burning the house down while they're still inside.

Why? Because you won. Personally, I could care less if people think my country is full of warmongerers.

The only lesson that we learn from history, is that we don't learn from history. You should probably take heed to that other people think of your country, because you know, they might attack you.

I've seen our country do more good than bad.

Well actually, in the foreign policy arena (especially the Middle East) the United States has done more bad than good over the past 60 years or so.

So if you guys want to condem my country for defending itself. Go ahead. If you want to overlook the good and focus on the bad. Have at it. EVERY country has its skeletons. If I wanted to I'm sure I could research alot of fucked up shit every country on the planet has done. It is what it is.

It's kind of a flawed argument that you have here. First, you're advocating that the United States has ultimately been a force of good in the world, and due to the exalted status of the United States in the world, that makes it morally permissible to bomb the living shit out of an entire section of the planet because 'some people' from that area attacked you. Not even Osama Bin Laden uses such inhuman and morally bankrupt reasoning.

And of course, another key point of your argument is that since other countries do bad things (including the United States), that makes it permissible to continue doing bad things.

I don't get it.

 

[Minor Axis]

i just stated they flipped against him, they supported Mubarak for 30 years. I am not kidding myself, you just fail at having a memory.

Well, I do have a memory, and I really did not address the last 30 years. I don't disagree with you and I stand by my 'alliances' statement. Any country that wants to have influence will establish relations with the lesser of what they consider to be the local evils.

 

[mazHur]

Nothing to be proud of....................!!

The mystery surrounding Raymond A. Davis, the American former Special Forces operative jailed in Lahore, Pakistan for the murder of two young motorcyclists, and his funky “security...

http://www.thiscantbehappening.net/node/450
And this...........http://www.thiscantbehappening.net/lindorff

AND

Forty years ago, Americans regularly spoke about a war 7,500 miles away in Vietnam as a "quagmire." We were, as one protest song of that era went, "waist deep in the Big Muddy." Today, Afghanistan, too, looks like a quagmire, but don't be fooled. The real quagmire isn't there; it's right here in Washington D.C., that capital mythically built on a swamp.
There's no way that thinking so old and stale, so out-of-date, can begin to take in or react adventurously to a fast-changing world. Look at Egypt, or China, or Brazil, or India, or Turkey. There, new thinking and new developments are blooming, but you wouldn't know it in Washington.
Neither $553 billion nor $80.1 billion can buy Washington a brain.

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/02/17/budget_cuts_and_afghanistan

and this.............

here is another article I just received in an email …sorry have to post it all as don’t have the url…

See the reality!

. An American “diplomat”, so-called “Raymond Davis” shot dead two Pakistanis and currently there is big stand-off between the two countries, ……

‘ Davis ‘ is the missing link to US support for ‘TTP’ terror in Pakistan
Undoubtedly this is the biggest scandal in US Foreign relations since the US U-2 was shot down by the Soviets in the sixties. Then, as now, both sides played out the drama in an iterative manner–neither side letting the other know how much they know.
There are clear indications that there is much more to the “Raymond Davis” affair than the Pakistanis are letting on. THis isn’t about murder and diplomatic immunity. This is mush bigger. Something is very wrong with this picture, and Islamabad is tight lipped because it now has concrete evidence that Mr “Raymond Davis” is linked with the Tehrik e Taliban e Pakistan (TTP) and some of the terror activities that have been happening in Pakistan . The Pakistanis are not stupid. Americans stick out like sore thumbs in Pakistan . When they go running around in their black SUVs laced with Satellite equipment they are tracked, traced and followed. In a cat and mouse game, the contractors can sometimes shake their “tails”. On other occasions they cannot. In fact the ISI gives them enough rope to hang themselves with. In this case, it seems Mr. Davis fell into a trap and his situation is now fully compromised. In panic Mr. “Davis” used the Nuclear option and killed the two Pakistanis who were trailing him–knowing full well that killing Pakistani spies or those who knew his identity would blow up in this face. He doesn’t have to say much–the equipment he carried tells a long and bloody story. All this is irrefutable evidence in a Pakistani court of law. The Pakistanis have already released the pictures of the equipment and the evidence that they have gathered. Of course they are still holding on to the juiciest details.
The US has postponed the Afghan-Pakistan-US Trilateral meeting, dropped hints about postponing the date of Mr. Zardari’s visit to the US , and floated all sorts of other threats. Normally Islamabad would have been cognizant of the the problems of spoiling its relationship with the sole Superpower. However the smirking Pakistanis are so confident in the validity of their cause, that they are letting the US escalate the issue.
Pakistan has ignored some of the US pressure and has not buckled under intense US pressure. Both General Kayani and Former Foreign Minister Mahmood Qureshi were not very impressed by US posturing. In fact right after their threatening phone calls and messages Islamabad formally charged Davis with pre-meditated murder in the Lahore High Court. The Court promptly remanded Mr. “Davis” to prison for another 14 days of interrogation. There were stories that if Mr. “Davis” does not cooperate, the interrogation would have been upgraded to level 3 (a euphemism for torture). There are reports that despite admonitions from the US Embassy, Mr. Davis is singing like a bird, and has already given enough information to the Pakistanis to get him convicted in any court of law.
The Former Foreign Minister Qureshi publicly confirmed that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton pressured him to “publicly confirm diplomatic immunity of Davis . However, I refused to do so because it was against the factual position in the case.” FM Qureshi’s confirmation that Mr “Davis” is not a diplomat was repeatedly discussed on all 80 TV channels with copies of his passports and visas prominently displayed for the audience. Mr. Quresh said that
“The kind of blanket immunity Washington is pressing for Davis is not endorsed by the official record of the Foreign Ministry,” adding that Washington even “threatened that Hillary Clinton would not meet me at the Munich conference on February 6 if the request was not granted.”
The situation is so polarized that even traditional US allies in Pakistan have condemned the intrusive murders. Mr. Pervez Hoodbhoy who almost never criticizes the US has condemned the ” Davis ” affair. The PMLN is of course threatened the PPP with a vote of no-confidence.
It is clear that Mr. “Davis” shot the Pakistani operatives knowing full well who they were. The Pakistani authorities have informed the the media that they are very well aware that Mr. Davis was in touch with the “Pakistani Taliban” (TTP). There is conjecture that Mr. “Davis” walked into a trap laid out by the ISI. In fact his contacts were actually ISI agents. All that he said and did is in the hands of the Pakistanis. Mr. “Davis” thought that by shooting the two operatives, he would eliminate the evidence against him. In fact, it made matters worse. Other operatives who were in the vicinity had already taken the necessary precautions. The ISI has leaked information to the media that Mr. “Davis” had crossed a “red line”.
Clearly, the Americans have panicked because the know that the Pakistani side knows much more than it is prepared to admit in public. This is typical behavior when spies are caught with their thumbs up their noses. There are clear indications that Mr. “Davis” has broken down after sustained interrogation in police custody, and has spilled his guts–making the Pakistanis aware of explosive stuff. Its not that this stuff has surprised the Pakistanis. When you have 3000 of these guys running around the country–something gives. The ISI is one of the world’s most powerful spy organizations in the world. It has deep roots in Pakistan and Afghanistan . Nothing that crawls or walks in Pakistan is hidden from the ISI and other agencies. On top of this there is a million man Pakistani army. 180 million Pakistanis are also watching the Americans and reporting on them. The panicked Americans have continually given highly contradictory versions about Mr. “Davis’s” identity and the nature of his assignment in Pakistan .
It is very clear that Mr. “Davis’s” discovery and detention has sent alarm bells ringing all the way to President Obama’s White House. In a way the Pakistanis are amused. They know they have the Americans where they want them–right up against the wall. The Americans are fully aware that the ” Davis ” case is shaking the very foundations of the transactional relationship with Pakistan . While the CIA, the State Department and the White House think that this is a new discovery–the Pakistanis point to a long trail of evidence that directly points to the US consultants and their hirelings in Afghanistan and Pakistan . The ISI and the Army believe that at the right time, the details of what the Pakistanis know will be revealed to President Obama and the world.
Pakistan and Pakistanis have known for a long time who is behind the TTP (Tehrik e Taliban e Pakistani). Its not that hard to guess. What surprised the Pakistanis was their ability to inflict bloody attacks on the Pakistani military in order to destabilize Pakistani. Mr. Davis is not an isolated incident–there is a history behind much of what is happening in Pakistan –most of which can be correlated to the rise of the US “consultants” and “contractors” in Pakistan . It is pedagogical to note that last year when the ISI put in requests for deep security checks on those coming into Pakistan –the US put up a hissy fit and forced about 500 of these ” Davis types” through without any background checks. Is is noted that the ISI became very suspicious of the insistence of the US in getting these guys into Pakistan at short notice. These guys got very special attention–and that has paid off in the arrest and detention of Mr. Davis. This points to the fact that this incident was not just an accident–it was an incident waiting to happen. The ISI was ready to pounce on the situation once it happened.
to be contd.............

 

[mazHur]

Nothing to be proud of....................!!

The mystery surrounding Raymond A. Davis, the American former Special Forces operative jailed in Lahore, Pakistan for the murder of two young motorcyclists, and his funky “security...

http://www.thiscantbehappening.net/node/450
And this...........http://www.thiscantbehappening.net/lindorff

AND

Forty years ago, Americans regularly spoke about a war 7,500 miles away in Vietnam as a "quagmire." We were, as one protest song of that era went, "waist deep in the Big Muddy." Today, Afghanistan, too, looks like a quagmire, but don't be fooled. The real quagmire isn't there; it's right here in Washington D.C., that capital mythically built on a swamp.
There's no way that thinking so old and stale, so out-of-date, can begin to take in or react adventurously to a fast-changing world. Look at Egypt, or China, or Brazil, or India, or Turkey. There, new thinking and new developments are blooming, but you wouldn't know it in Washington.
Neither $553 billion nor $80.1 billion can buy Washington a brain.

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/02/17/budget_cuts_and_afghanistan

and this.............

here is another article I just received in an email …sorry have to post it all as don’t have the url…

See the reality!

. An American “diplomat”, so-called “Raymond Davis” shot dead two Pakistanis and currently there is big stand-off between the two countries, ……

‘ Davis ‘ is the missing link to US support for ‘TTP’ terror in Pakistan
Undoubtedly this is the biggest scandal in US Foreign relations since the US U-2 was shot down by the Soviets in the sixties. Then, as now, both sides played out the drama in an iterative manner–neither side letting the other know how much they know.
There are clear indications that there is much more to the “Raymond Davis” affair than the Pakistanis are letting on. THis isn’t about murder and diplomatic immunity. This is mush bigger. Something is very wrong with this picture, and Islamabad is tight lipped because it now has concrete evidence that Mr “Raymond Davis” is linked with the Tehrik e Taliban e Pakistan (TTP) and some of the terror activities that have been happening in Pakistan . The Pakistanis are not stupid. Americans stick out like sore thumbs in Pakistan . When they go running around in their black SUVs laced with Satellite equipment they are tracked, traced and followed. In a cat and mouse game, the contractors can sometimes shake their “tails”. On other occasions they cannot. In fact the ISI gives them enough rope to hang themselves with. In this case, it seems Mr. Davis fell into a trap and his situation is now fully compromised. In panic Mr. “Davis” used the Nuclear option and killed the two Pakistanis who were trailing him–knowing full well that killing Pakistani spies or those who knew his identity would blow up in this face. He doesn’t have to say much–the equipment he carried tells a long and bloody story. All this is irrefutable evidence in a Pakistani court of law. The Pakistanis have already released the pictures of the equipment and the evidence that they have gathered. Of course they are still holding on to the juiciest details.
The US has postponed the Afghan-Pakistan-US Trilateral meeting, dropped hints about postponing the date of Mr. Zardari’s visit to the US , and floated all sorts of other threats. Normally Islamabad would have been cognizant of the the problems of spoiling its relationship with the sole Superpower. However the smirking Pakistanis are so confident in the validity of their cause, that they are letting the US escalate the issue.
Pakistan has ignored some of the US pressure and has not buckled under intense US pressure. Both General Kayani and Former Foreign Minister Mahmood Qureshi were not very impressed by US posturing. In fact right after their threatening phone calls and messages Islamabad formally charged Davis with pre-meditated murder in the Lahore High Court. The Court promptly remanded Mr. “Davis” to prison for another 14 days of interrogation. There were stories that if Mr. “Davis” does not cooperate, the interrogation would have been upgraded to level 3 (a euphemism for torture). There are reports that despite admonitions from the US Embassy, Mr. Davis is singing like a bird, and has already given enough information to the Pakistanis to get him convicted in any court of law.
The Former Foreign Minister Qureshi publicly confirmed that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton pressured him to “publicly confirm diplomatic immunity of Davis . However, I refused to do so because it was against the factual position in the case.” FM Qureshi’s confirmation that Mr “Davis” is not a diplomat was repeatedly discussed on all 80 TV channels with copies of his passports and visas prominently displayed for the audience. Mr. Quresh said that
“The kind of blanket immunity Washington is pressing for Davis is not endorsed by the official record of the Foreign Ministry,” adding that Washington even “threatened that Hillary Clinton would not meet me at the Munich conference on February 6 if the request was not granted.”
The situation is so polarized that even traditional US allies in Pakistan have condemned the intrusive murders. Mr. Pervez Hoodbhoy who almost never criticizes the US has condemned the ” Davis ” affair. The PMLN is of course threatened the PPP with a vote of no-confidence.
It is clear that Mr. “Davis” shot the Pakistani operatives knowing full well who they were. The Pakistani authorities have informed the the media that they are very well aware that Mr. Davis was in touch with the “Pakistani Taliban” (TTP). There is conjecture that Mr. “Davis” walked into a trap laid out by the ISI. In fact his contacts were actually ISI agents. All that he said and did is in the hands of the Pakistanis. Mr. “Davis” thought that by shooting the two operatives, he would eliminate the evidence against him. In fact, it made matters worse. Other operatives who were in the vicinity had already taken the necessary precautions. The ISI has leaked information to the media that Mr. “Davis” had crossed a “red line”.
Clearly, the Americans have panicked because the know that the Pakistani side knows much more than it is prepared to admit in public. This is typical behavior when spies are caught with their thumbs up their noses. There are clear indications that Mr. “Davis” has broken down after sustained interrogation in police custody, and has spilled his guts–making the Pakistanis aware of explosive stuff. Its not that this stuff has surprised the Pakistanis. When you have 3000 of these guys running around the country–something gives. The ISI is one of the world’s most powerful spy organizations in the world. It has deep roots in Pakistan and Afghanistan . Nothing that crawls or walks in Pakistan is hidden from the ISI and other agencies. On top of this there is a million man Pakistani army. 180 million Pakistanis are also watching the Americans and reporting on them. The panicked Americans have continually given highly contradictory versions about Mr. “Davis’s” identity and the nature of his assignment in Pakistan .
It is very clear that Mr. “Davis’s” discovery and detention has sent alarm bells ringing all the way to President Obama’s White House. In a way the Pakistanis are amused. They know they have the Americans where they want them–right up against the wall. The Americans are fully aware that the ” Davis ” case is shaking the very foundations of the transactional relationship with Pakistan . While the CIA, the State Department and the White House think that this is a new discovery–the Pakistanis point to a long trail of evidence that directly points to the US consultants and their hirelings in Afghanistan and Pakistan . The ISI and the Army believe that at the right time, the details of what the Pakistanis know will be revealed to President Obama and the world.
Pakistan and Pakistanis have known for a long time who is behind the TTP (Tehrik e Taliban e Pakistani). Its not that hard to guess. What surprised the Pakistanis was their ability to inflict bloody attacks on the Pakistani military in order to destabilize Pakistani. Mr. Davis is not an isolated incident–there is a history behind much of what is happening in Pakistan –most of which can be correlated to the rise of the US “consultants” and “contractors” in Pakistan . It is pedagogical to note that last year when the ISI put in requests for deep security checks on those coming into Pakistan –the US put up a hissy fit and forced about 500 of these ” Davis types” through without any background checks. Is is noted that the ISI became very suspicious of the insistence of the US in getting these guys into Pakistan at short notice. These guys got very special attention–and that has paid off in the arrest and detention of Mr. Davis. This points to the fact that this incident was not just an accident–it was an incident waiting to happen. The ISI was ready to pounce on the situation once it happened.
to be contd.............

 

[mazHur]

Nothing to be proud of....................!!

The mystery surrounding Raymond A. Davis, the American former Special Forces operative jailed in Lahore, Pakistan for the murder of two young motorcyclists, and his funky “security...

http://www.thiscantbehappening.net/node/450
And this...........http://www.thiscantbehappening.net/lindorff

AND

Forty years ago, Americans regularly spoke about a war 7,500 miles away in Vietnam as a "quagmire." We were, as one protest song of that era went, "waist deep in the Big Muddy." Today, Afghanistan, too, looks like a quagmire, but don't be fooled. The real quagmire isn't there; it's right here in Washington D.C., that capital mythically built on a swamp.
There's no way that thinking so old and stale, so out-of-date, can begin to take in or react adventurously to a fast-changing world. Look at Egypt, or China, or Brazil, or India, or Turkey. There, new thinking and new developments are blooming, but you wouldn't know it in Washington.
Neither $553 billion nor $80.1 billion can buy Washington a brain.

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/02/17/budget_cuts_and_afghanistan

and this.............

here is another article I just received in an email …sorry have to post it all as don’t have the url…

See the reality!

. An American “diplomat”, so-called “Raymond Davis” shot dead two Pakistanis and currently there is big stand-off between the two countries, ……

‘ Davis ‘ is the missing link to US support for ‘TTP’ terror in Pakistan
Undoubtedly this is the biggest scandal in US Foreign relations since the US U-2 was shot down by the Soviets in the sixties. Then, as now, both sides played out the drama in an iterative manner–neither side letting the other know how much they know.
There are clear indications that there is much more to the “Raymond Davis” affair than the Pakistanis are letting on. THis isn’t about murder and diplomatic immunity. This is mush bigger. Something is very wrong with this picture, and Islamabad is tight lipped because it now has concrete evidence that Mr “Raymond Davis” is linked with the Tehrik e Taliban e Pakistan (TTP) and some of the terror activities that have been happening in Pakistan . The Pakistanis are not stupid. Americans stick out like sore thumbs in Pakistan . When they go running around in their black SUVs laced with Satellite equipment they are tracked, traced and followed. In a cat and mouse game, the contractors can sometimes shake their “tails”. On other occasions they cannot. In fact the ISI gives them enough rope to hang themselves with. In this case, it seems Mr. Davis fell into a trap and his situation is now fully compromised. In panic Mr. “Davis” used the Nuclear option and killed the two Pakistanis who were trailing him–knowing full well that killing Pakistani spies or those who knew his identity would blow up in this face. He doesn’t have to say much–the equipment he carried tells a long and bloody story. All this is irrefutable evidence in a Pakistani court of law. The Pakistanis have already released the pictures of the equipment and the evidence that they have gathered. Of course they are still holding on to the juiciest details.
The US has postponed the Afghan-Pakistan-US Trilateral meeting, dropped hints about postponing the date of Mr. Zardari’s visit to the US , and floated all sorts of other threats. Normally Islamabad would have been cognizant of the the problems of spoiling its relationship with the sole Superpower. However the smirking Pakistanis are so confident in the validity of their cause, that they are letting the US escalate the issue.
Pakistan has ignored some of the US pressure and has not buckled under intense US pressure. Both General Kayani and Former Foreign Minister Mahmood Qureshi were not very impressed by US posturing. In fact right after their threatening phone calls and messages Islamabad formally charged Davis with pre-meditated murder in the Lahore High Court. The Court promptly remanded Mr. “Davis” to prison for another 14 days of interrogation. There were stories that if Mr. “Davis” does not cooperate, the interrogation would have been upgraded to level 3 (a euphemism for torture). There are reports that despite admonitions from the US Embassy, Mr. Davis is singing like a bird, and has already given enough information to the Pakistanis to get him convicted in any court of law.
The Former Foreign Minister Qureshi publicly confirmed that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton pressured him to “publicly confirm diplomatic immunity of Davis . However, I refused to do so because it was against the factual position in the case.” FM Qureshi’s confirmation that Mr “Davis” is not a diplomat was repeatedly discussed on all 80 TV channels with copies of his passports and visas prominently displayed for the audience. Mr. Quresh said that
“The kind of blanket immunity Washington is pressing for Davis is not endorsed by the official record of the Foreign Ministry,” adding that Washington even “threatened that Hillary Clinton would not meet me at the Munich conference on February 6 if the request was not granted.”
The situation is so polarized that even traditional US allies in Pakistan have condemned the intrusive murders. Mr. Pervez Hoodbhoy who almost never criticizes the US has condemned the ” Davis ” affair. The PMLN is of course threatened the PPP with a vote of no-confidence.
It is clear that Mr. “Davis” shot the Pakistani operatives knowing full well who they were. The Pakistani authorities have informed the the media that they are very well aware that Mr. Davis was in touch with the “Pakistani Taliban” (TTP). There is conjecture that Mr. “Davis” walked into a trap laid out by the ISI. In fact his contacts were actually ISI agents. All that he said and did is in the hands of the Pakistanis. Mr. “Davis” thought that by shooting the two operatives, he would eliminate the evidence against him. In fact, it made matters worse. Other operatives who were in the vicinity had already taken the necessary precautions. The ISI has leaked information to the media that Mr. “Davis” had crossed a “red line”.
Clearly, the Americans have panicked because the know that the Pakistani side knows much more than it is prepared to admit in public. This is typical behavior when spies are caught with their thumbs up their noses. There are clear indications that Mr. “Davis” has broken down after sustained interrogation in police custody, and has spilled his guts–making the Pakistanis aware of explosive stuff. Its not that this stuff has surprised the Pakistanis. When you have 3000 of these guys running around the country–something gives. The ISI is one of the world’s most powerful spy organizations in the world. It has deep roots in Pakistan and Afghanistan . Nothing that crawls or walks in Pakistan is hidden from the ISI and other agencies. On top of this there is a million man Pakistani army. 180 million Pakistanis are also watching the Americans and reporting on them. The panicked Americans have continually given highly contradictory versions about Mr. “Davis’s” identity and the nature of his assignment in Pakistan .
It is very clear that Mr. “Davis’s” discovery and detention has sent alarm bells ringing all the way to President Obama’s White House. In a way the Pakistanis are amused. They know they have the Americans where they want them–right up against the wall. The Americans are fully aware that the ” Davis ” case is shaking the very foundations of the transactional relationship with Pakistan . While the CIA, the State Department and the White House think that this is a new discovery–the Pakistanis point to a long trail of evidence that directly points to the US consultants and their hirelings in Afghanistan and Pakistan . The ISI and the Army believe that at the right time, the details of what the Pakistanis know will be revealed to President Obama and the world.
Pakistan and Pakistanis have known for a long time who is behind the TTP (Tehrik e Taliban e Pakistani). Its not that hard to guess. What surprised the Pakistanis was their ability to inflict bloody attacks on the Pakistani military in order to destabilize Pakistani. Mr. Davis is not an isolated incident–there is a history behind much of what is happening in Pakistan –most of which can be correlated to the rise of the US “consultants” and “contractors” in Pakistan . It is pedagogical to note that last year when the ISI put in requests for deep security checks on those coming into Pakistan –the US put up a hissy fit and forced about 500 of these ” Davis types” through without any background checks. Is is noted that the ISI became very suspicious of the insistence of the US in getting these guys into Pakistan at short notice. These guys got very special attention–and that has paid off in the arrest and detention of Mr. Davis. This points to the fact that this incident was not just an accident–it was an incident waiting to happen. The ISI was ready to pounce on the situation once it happened.
to be contd.............

 

[AnitaBeer]

I am proud to be an American. There may be some Americans I'm not proud of, but it doesn't stop me from being proud to be from America.

 

[AntoniaOu]

oh lol. ironic. u r not proud of ur country, and we r not proud of our. we wanna live everything and go to another continent, hoping "fuck yeah, there s another sweet life".

 

[Laguna]

Of course, we're the best country in the world.

 

[Joe the meek]

We had a war in Iraq and the United States citizens hardly made a peep. We told the World that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. It was a lie and our government knew it was a lie. Where is the recrimination on this? We still sit silent while hundreds of thousands are born deformed or dead from the Depleted Uranium we used to poison their country. This uranium which has been reduced from explosions to microns of.0.2 size. It's in the dust, the water, the plants. It has a half-life of 400,000 years. Iraq mothers and fathers no longer ask if the baby is a boy or a girl, they ask if it's normal. Over ¼ of the people are refuges from Iraq. Estimates of civilian deaths range from 200,00 to over a million. Over half of the population have been displaced. Their infrastructure has been destroyed. They have very little gas, electricity and medical supplies. All in the name of bringing “Freedom to the Iraqis” Now we are in Afghanistan bringing carnage to that nation. We spend half our budget on military spending. We used to support the Taliban when they were fighting the Soviet Union. Now, since we want to build an oil pipeline through their country (Called TAPI), we are at war with them. We could be there for decades. They are now our premiere enemy (besides the insurgents in Iraq that are still shooting at our 50,000 troops. Politicians aren't stupid. Many of our forefathers waned us about this. They wrote it on paper. Let me give you a few of their quotes. Please read these words with care. These are our founding fathers and their vision of our nation is well worth reading today. Thomas Jefferson “All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people to remain silent.” “Dependance begets subservience and venality, suffocate the germ of virtue, and prepares fit tools for the designs of ambition.” “Educate and inform the whole mass of the people...They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our society.” “If there is one principle more deeply rooted in the mind of every American, it is that we should have nothing to do with conquest”. “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to tome with the blood of patriots and tyrants”. John Adams “ Liberty cannot be preserved without general knowledge among the people...” “ There is never a democracy that did not commit suicide, We are the only real aristocracy in the world: the aristocracy of money”. Benjamin Franklin “By failing to prepare, you are planing to fail. They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little security shall have neither liberty or security.” “There was never a good war or a bad peace.” The strictest law sometimes becomes the severest injustice... “ All wars are follies, very expensive and very mischievous ones”. George Washington “Over grown military establishments are under any form of government inauspicious to liberty, and are to be regarded as particularly hostile to republican liberty.” “If the Freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we will be taken away like sheep to the slaughter.” “Government is not reason; it is not eloquent, it is force. Like fire it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.” “It will be found an unjust and unwise jealousy to deprive a man of his natural liberty upon the supposition he may abuse it” “My first wish is to see this plague of mankind, war, banished from the Earth.” “The Constitution vests the power of declaring war in Congress; therefore no offensive expedition of importance can be undertaken until after they have deliberated upon the subject and authorized such a measure.” These are but a few of our founding father's thoughts. They have stood the test of time. Our present government does not want us to understand what was put in writing centuries ago. Congress no longer declares war, it's done by the Authorization of Force that scarcely a congressman will go against on the assumption that he may be disloyal. The mainstream media fills us with garbage. If you want to know what is truly going on in the World you must seek out news on the internet or World news in the early morning. I am ashamed of my country. We perform extraordinary renditions (kidnap people), we torture people, we hold people indefinitely without charges, and the government lies to its own people, We have become a nation of killers. We indiscriminate between legitimate targets and unarmed civilians. We are spending our children's and grandchildren's future by this unending expenditures on military hardware. As John F. Kennedy once said; “Mankind must put and end to war before war puts an end to mankind”. You may be proud of your country but I'm not. I would like to give you some sobering facts that I borrowed from Michael Snyder. They are worth noting about the economic condition in this nation. http://www.countercurrents.org/gatto190111.htm

I for one am REALLY pissed.

You would think they would teach how to use paragraphs in US schools

 

[Peter Parka]

I for one am REALLY pissed.

You would think they would teach how to use paragraphs in US schools

He's not from the US. He hasn't been on here for a while. He's from some backwards Asian country yet used to come on here making 50 threads a fucking day about how crap the US is. In all honesty, I think he was just jealous.

 

[porterjack]

He's not from the US. He hasn't been on here for a while. He's from some backwards Asian country yet used to come on here making 50 threads a fucking day about how crap the US is. In all honesty, I think he was just jealous.

I think he is from pakistan

 

[Peter Parka]

I think he is from pakistan

Hopefully he got taken out at the same time as his buddy, bin Laden.

 

[Minor Axis]

I think he was suffering form OTZ/Western viewpoint fatigue.

 

[darkcgi]

in many ways yes and some no
but i give it an over yes
to broad a question
I can always say it could do better

 

[Joe the meek]

Hopefully he got taken out at the same time as his buddy, bin Laden.

I'm not sure why you feel that way. The man brings some valid points to the table.

Let's face it, would we even have this problem in the sandbox if oil wasn't so important?

 

[HK]

I'm not sure why you feel that way. The man brings some valid points to the table.

You weren't here when Mazhur was at his peak. He was a character all right. Most of the points he 'brought to the table' as you say weren't his own - he was the king of the copy+paste function. And when challenged, he could switch from being able to understand and speak english very well, to apparently misunderstanding everything in your reply and responding with sentences that literally, i mean seriously, made no sense at all.

He's not missed around here, basically.

 

[Joe the meek]

You weren't here when Mazhur was at his peak. He was a character all right. Most of the points he 'brought to the table' as you say weren't his own - he was the king of the copy+paste function. And when challenged, he could switch from being able to understand and speak english very well, to apparently misunderstanding everything in your reply and responding with sentences that literally, i mean seriously, made no sense at all.

He's not missed around here, basically.

Perhaps, but other than the fact that you mean harm (AKA killing) to others, I wouldn't wish death upon anyone.

 

[Niamh]

Perhaps, but other than the fact that you mean harm (AKA killing) to others, I wouldn't wish death upon anyone.

Just a hunch here but I doubt he was serious about that..............