Unions- Savior or In League with the Devil?

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Minor Axis

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Union members contend a union gives them some control over their lives. Conservatives declare that unions are extortionists. Who is right? Are both right? The common connection between labor and owners/management is that we are all people and in most cases we look out for our own best interests.

The worst situation exists when owners look at their employees as expendable rats on a treadmill, that are easily replaced. The best situation exists when owners acknowledge that we are all people, we all have value, and the common energy expended towards making a successful business requires that everyone involved must benefit. How much benefit is usually the basis for disagreement. Conservatives always claim that "business" always knows what is best, but business can be incredibly self centered and greedy. But I acknowledge unions can get out of control and run a company down. So the key is moderation and realism on both sides of the equation. Bottom line we are people with many faults.

I was watching the History Channel today and if you want the perfect example of why unions exist, look at the Quebec Asbestos Strike of 1949. The companies effected were either American or English/Canadian owned.The Canadian asbestos industry workers (who had a union) asked the company to improve working conditions, namely to remove the pervasive swirls of asbestos dust that not only covered the work place, the workers, their lungs, and all the neighboring houses that surrounded the mine.

The mine owners thought it was too expensive so while they insisted asbestos had no health consequences, instead they offered the workers a pay raise and more holidays off. At the time in the Canadian government was anti-union, and the strike that resulted was considered an illegal strike. The strike lasted 4 months, and it took arbitration for work conditions to be corrected. It's possible that without a strike, as evidence surmounted regarding asbestos, eventually work conditions would have been corrected, but how many people would have died in the mean time? The strike expedited the process, IMO for good reasons.

Isolated circumstance? Hardly. There have been a multitude of cases regarding companies who "just can't afford" to do right by their employees, Erin Brockovich or Norma Rae are two easy examples. And Walmart is so anti-union, they would rather shut down a store instead of allowing a union. (Conservative applause line. ;))
 
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Alien Allen

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Unions have extorted.

The Big 3 should have shut down the factories in the early 70's and some of our problems would not be so bad

Mainly those issues with retirement as Mulder has explained numerous times.

When they unions could not extort more out of wages the Big 3 settled instead for putting off the pain to the future.

This would be find and dandy if the UAW was not a template for the rest of the unions and the private sector over the years. If you think not then you should have been to some of the negotiations I sat in on back years ago. Everything was compared to the UAW in at least our area. Never mind the fact it would be comparing apples to tennis balls
 

Alien Allen

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Brokovich is nothing more than a hottie with a low cut shirt that extorted to make her claim to fame.

You can always find bad business owners. Same as you can always find lousy employees.
 

Minor Axis

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Unions have extorted.
Mainly those issues with retirement as Mulder has explained numerous times

And business has never extorted? BTW, nobody with an open mind on the subject would view Mulder as a balanced, neutral source of information regarding labor vs business.

You can always find bad business owners. Same as you can always find lousy employees.

So your position is what? Should unions be allowed or be illegal? Did you read my entire post?
 
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Alien Allen

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So your position is what? Should unions be allowed or be illegal?
I never said they should be banned or illegal. I just said in the past they have extorted. Lately they have seen the light but I guarantee that once the economy recovers they will be out doing the same thing. Union leadership is just as greedy as management and ownership.

Did you read my entire post?
Hell no. Do I have to :D
 

Kyle B

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I respect what unions stand for, but many have overstepped their boundaries, just as businesses have.
 

dt3

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I think that they served a valid purpose in the past, but somehow as the need for them has decreased their power has managed to keep increasing. Funny how that works...
 

ClicheGuevara

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Some unions are garbage. .Mainly city unions, like garbage and bus service..At least in my city. .These bus drivers bitch about making almost twenty dollars an hour plus benefits to drive a bus..How hard of a job is that? I'll do it for 14 . .lol.

It takes the city months to finish a project and they are always way over budget, all thanks to having to pander to a union.

Ideally it's a good idea, looking out for the working class. .But like a lot of things it only works that way in a perfect world.
 

Accountable

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A union is great weapons when at war with an employer. When war is no longer necessary, you don't throw the weapon away, but you do put it back in storage. Union reps and government reps (politicians) have the same natural problem: they have to show that they have value or they'll lose the job. So they do more than is necessary, continuing the fight long after the war is won. That's when both become destructive.

Unions have become destructive, government has become destructive, but we can't totally get rid of either. I don't know how to rectify the situation.
 

RedRyder

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I pay Union Dues. :D

The Union protects workers jobs.... whether the worker is a deadbeat or a great employee. The deadbeat can eventually be ousted.... but it sure takes time and patience and documentation.

The Union helps with negotiations and contracts and at times can stimulate demands that are above and beyond reasonable. But at the end of the day..... it's the workers who will vote yes or no on tentative agreements that are hashed out when the time comes.

In this atmosphere today..... I'm glad I'm not an at-will employee. So are most of my co-workers. Doesn't mean I'm pro-union. Where I work.... there isn't a choice. Like it or leave it.
 

Guyzerr

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Some unions are garbage. .Mainly city unions, like garbage and bus service..At least in my city. .These bus drivers bitch about making almost twenty dollars an hour plus benefits to drive a bus..How hard of a job is that? I'll do it for 14 . .lol.
I drove OTR for what worked out to be more than 20 bucks an hour so hauling a bunch of impatient idiots in a bus all day long would take more than that for me.
 

ClicheGuevara

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I drove OTR for what worked out to be more than 20 bucks an hour so hauling a bunch of impatient idiots in a bus all day long would take more than that for me.


That is still great pay for a job that really doesn't take much skill, and not to mention the benefits that go with it.. I personally have a slanted opinion of bus drivers due to them making me homeless during their strikes like I mentioned before.
 

Guyzerr

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That is still great pay for a job that really doesn't take much skill, and not to mention the benefits that go with it..

#1 - Most people can't maneuver a car safely around a city never mind something that's 40' long so it does take a lot of skill. Then pack in a pile of human distractions to make it even worse. Until you've done yourself sometimes it's better just to a213.gif

I personally have a slanted opinion of bus drivers due to them making me homeless during their strikes like I mentioned before.

#2 - So you're telling me everyone in your city that rode the bus became homeless because of a strike. Please tell me the name of your city so I can research it.

#3 - I wouldn't get out of bed for $14.00 an hour nor would anyone else that knows what a decent days pay for a hard days work is.

#4 - I'll defend a professional drive anytime I see them being slammed by someone that doesn't have a clue what they are up against because I've been there. It's a profession that very few really know anything about. You included.
 

Accountable

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That is still great pay for a job that really doesn't take much skill, and not to mention the benefits that go with it.. I personally have a slanted opinion of bus drivers due to them making me homeless during their strikes like I mentioned before.
I missed the story of bus drivers taking your home away. Can you link me?
 

dt3

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#3 - I wouldn't get out of bed for $14.00 an hour nor would anyone else that knows what a decent days pay for a hard days work is.
:24: That's a pretty sweeping statement. Since you take such exception to picking on professional drivers, isn't it rather hypocritical to then turn around and bash another group that you apparentlyknow nothing about?
 

Guyzerr

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:24: That's a pretty sweeping statement. Since you take such exception to picking on professional drivers, isn't it rather hypocritical to then turn around and bash another group that you apparentlyknow nothing about?
And which group would that be?
 

Accountable

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#1 - Most people can't maneuver a car safely around a city never mind something that's 40' long so it does take a lot of skill. Then pack in a pile of human distractions to make it even worse. Until you've done yourself sometimes it's better just to a213.gif



#2 - So you're telling me everyone in your city that rode the bus became homeless because of a strike. Please tell me the name of your city so I can research it.

#3 - I wouldn't get out of bed for $14.00 an hour nor would anyone else that knows what a decent days pay for a hard days work is.

#4 - I'll defend a professional drive anytime I see them being slammed by someone that doesn't have a clue what they are up against because I've been there. It's a profession that very few really know anything about. You included.
I've driven busses and trucks for a living, and it is definitely a skill. I've also gotten out of bed for a job that paid $7 per hour, and that was after I already had a masters degree.
 
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