Uni removes Down's syndrome student

[anathelia]

I don't need to read jack shit, this school doesn't have to accept anyone it doesn't want to, and they don't have to justify it either.

So a student shouldn't be allowed to attend a school and a class they're paying for just because they're different? That sounds like a huge step backwards to the tune of about 50-60 years.

 

[dkwrtw]

So a student shouldn't be allowed to attend a school and a class they're paying for just because they're different? That sounds like a huge step backwards to the tune of about 50-60 years.

I said the girl's family should get a refund.

 

[anathelia]

I said the girl's family should get a refund.

And what happens when this happens with the next school she tries to attend? And the next? Because according to what you said, the school has the right to admit and deny whomever they choose. And if it's acceptable in this case, then when is it not acceptable? Regardless of whether or not she's getting a refund, I think the issue is discrimination.

 

[dkwrtw]

And what happens when this happens with the next school she tries to attend? And the next? Because according to what you said, the school has the right to admit and deny whomever they choose. And if it's acceptable in this case, then when is it not acceptable? Regardless of whether or not she's getting a refund, I think the issue is discrimination.

I don't think it's discrimination, they said that they would have to alter the course in order for her to participate, all the other student's shouldn't have to pay to take a dumbed down course for the sake of one person. I'm sure some Californian school will except her.

 

[anathelia]

I don't think it's discrimination, they said that they would have to alter the course in order for her to participate, all the other student's shouldn't have to pay to take a dumbed down course for the sake of one person. I'm sure some Californian school will except her.

Why does she need a modification now with two classes left in the semester? The article doesn't clarify, so I don't really think it's fair that we judge the situation without all the facts. I stated in one of my previous posts that if she's asking to be graded differently because of some physical incapability, then that's not fair. And they don't have to "dumb down" courses for the sake of one person because of a modification. There are plenty of assistances and modifications out there that don't change the course for anyone but the student.

 

[dkwrtw]

if it could easily be done I'm sure they would have accommodated her, clearly more trouble than it's worth.

 

[TommyTooter]

You're assuming I'm accepting it as a reason, when that's not really the case. I merely was showing Zorak what the article said in regards to the situation.

I have two brothers with special needs. One with autism and the other who suffered a traumatic brain injury in 2007. I'm fully on the side of not understanding why this needed to happen. I would imagine that the girl would not have signed up for a ceramics class if she did not believe she could handle the course. And if she's made it this far, I don't understand why now there's a problem with her needing a modification. If she asked to be graded on a different scale because for some reason she's not as physically capable as the other students, that's not fair. However, if they merely assumed she needed some sort of assistance or modification because she has Down's Syndrome, then I believe that's ludicrous and discriminatory. The problem here is that the article isn't really clear or specific on the whole situation, so it's hard to judge not given all the facts.

i wasn't assuming that at all and was trying to be very careful with my phrasing because i wanted to draw you to this point of agreement that a) we are both experienced with special needs children and know that girl should have been able to handle a ceramics class, especially after she'd already earned a high school diploma. i've seen downs children and adults do things with their hands that people without impairments can't do.

and b)
something is missing from the article. does anybody want to volunteer to hunt for more comprehensive coverage, or is that going to be on me?

 

[skyblue]

and while we're at it how about removing all blacks,jews,asians,muslims,sikhs,hindu's and mexicans.

removing that girl from class is no different than removing someone because of race....its discrimination

 

[TommyTooter]

I don't need to read jack shit, this school doesn't have to accept anyone it doesn't want to, and they don't have to justify it either.

they sure do have to justify it if they reject someone who goes to a court whose judge thinks their discrimination case has merit.

i didn't see whether this was a private or publicly funded school. a private school might be able to wiggle out because it's private but a public school won't. also, since the passage of the ADA, there has been a marked increase in discrimination torts brought by disabled people.

 

[Kyle B]

I think this issue is a lot more complex than it appears.

If the student was fine in the class and the teacher wasn't having any problems, than I really don't see the issue. Then we can say it's an issue of discrimination.

However, if the teacher found it difficult and struggled to accommodate the student, than that's a different matter. Of course, the article doesn't go into enough depth into the issue.

Ultimately, it opens up the issue of whether or not colleges are prepared to address the needs of a diverse community.

 

[Zorak]

Some people aren't suited to higher education. I'm sorry but that's just a fact of life, which isn't fair, as we are often reminded.

 

[purpledove]

I find it prudent not to comment on things if you don't have all the facts.

I agree :nod:

I think this issue is a lot more complex than it appears.

If the student was fine in the class and the teacher wasn't having any problems, than I really don't see the issue. Then we can say it's an issue of discrimination.

However, if the teacher found it difficult and struggled to accommodate the student, than that's a different matter. Of course, the article doesn't go into enough depth into the issue.

Ultimately, it opens up the issue of whether or not colleges are prepared to address the needs of a diverse community.

:homo: and my concern is that if there are Prisoner's rights and advocacy organizations, where are these types of organizations to fight for the rights of special needs? Doesn't she deserve help?

I do understand also given if they have to modify the classes and maybe the teacher is struggling to accommodate her needs. Despite that maybe there other institutions to accommodate her needs, why kick her out when she only needs 2 more classes to complete the course? Would that be too much to ask from the teacher and the whole class' participation to help her out ? :willy_nilly::dunno

With all these Qns lingering is why we need more INFO on this

 

[TommyTooter]

Some people aren't suited to higher education. I'm sorry but that's just a fact of life, which isn't fair, as we are often reminded.

please don't go ballistic at this question, but how well suited for higher education were you? matriculate from anywhere? got any paper that took longer than two years to acquire?

let me point out that this young lady has a high school diploma and was auditing a ceramics class. she was most likely better at it than a lot of those children you consider to be suitable for higher education.

are you willing to give us a little summary of what you believe makes a child suitable for higher education and what would disqualify a child besides chromosomal trisomy21*?

that's down's for the people with no education and mongoloid idiots for the people with little or no education and a lot of class --- all of it low.

 

[TommyTooter]

I agree :nod:



:homo: and my concern is that if there are Prisoner's rights and advocacy organizations, where are these types of organizations to fight for the rights of special needs? Doesn't she deserve help?

I do understand also given if they have to modify the classes and maybe the teacher is struggling to accommodate her needs. Despite that maybe there other institutions to accommodate her needs, why kick her out when she only needs 2 more classes to complete the course? Would that be too much to ask from the teacher and the whole class' participation to help her out ? :willy_nilly::dunno

With all these Qns lingering is why we need more INFO on this

they're coming out in droves from what i understand citing

AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES ACT OF 1990, AS AMENDED
http://www.ada.gov/pubs/ada.htm​

if you go back and read that newspaper article again, you will notice that the father is not planning to file anything on anybody.​

 

[Zorak]

please don't go ballistic at this question, but how well suited for higher education were you? matriculate from anywhere? got any paper that took longer than two years to acquire?

let me point out that this young lady has a high school diploma and was auditing a ceramics class. she was most likely better at it than a lot of those children you consider to be suitable for higher education.

are you willing to give us a little summary of what you believe makes a child suitable for higher education and what would disqualify a child besides chromosomal trisomy21*?

that's down's for the people with no education and mongoloid idiots for the people with little or no education and a lot of class --- all of it low.

I try not to deal in "likely"'s. So I won't comment upon this young lady's abilities in sculpting or whatever it was she did and whether or not she's better than the rest of the class.
And for the same reason, I'm not going to suppose for one second that she was kicked out of the class for having downs syndrome.

The reason I said that some people aren't suited to a progression through higher education is that it is simply a matter of ability & economics. With exception to the highly prosperous, an enrolment into further education represents an investment, and a lot of people aren't inclined or sufficiently capable of making a return on that investment. This an important issue both personally, and too on a nationally economic level.

When I read then that a young girl who happens to suffer from Downs Syndrome has been dropped from university; a decision that is never come too easily, and starts with the lecturers, and moves up above to the Head of Department and ends up at the Dean of Admissions, I would err on the side of caution before proclaiming it an act of discrimination.

 

[TommyTooter]

I try not to deal in "likely"'s. So I won't comment upon this young lady's abilities in sculpting or whatever it was she did and whether or not she's better than the rest of the class.
And for the same reason, I'm not going to suppose for one second that she was kicked out of the class for having downs syndrome.

The reason I said that some people aren't suited to a progression through higher education is that it is simply a matter of ability & economics. With exception to the highly prosperous, an enrolment into further education represents an investment, and a lot of people aren't inclined or sufficiently capable of making a return on that investment. This an important issue both personally, and too on a nationally economic level.

When I read then that a young girl who happens to suffer from Downs Syndrome has been dropped from university; a decision that is never come too easily, and starts with the lecturers, and moves up above to the Head of Department and ends up at the Dean of Admissions, I would err on the side of caution before proclaiming it an act of discrimination.

would you please expand on that 'ability' thing a little before i frame a full response? i'll help you along by saying bullshit to your assertion about economics. there's all sorts of assistance monies that will never have to be paid back for indigent kids, especially ones that peg the needles on their craptitude tests.

does pell ring any bells?

even if i'm mistaken about pell grants, there are all kinds of scholarships out there.

 

[Zorak]

would you please expand on that 'ability' thing a little before i frame a full response? i'll help you along by saying bullshit to your assertion about economics. there's all sorts of assistance monies that will never have to be paid back for indigent kids, especially ones that peg the needles on their craptitude tests.

does pell ring any bells?

even if i'm mistaken about pell grants, there are all kinds of scholarships out there.

Why do you think these scholarships exist? Think beyond a period of 5-10 years.
I'm not going to elaborate any further, as I believe I was perfectly clear enough the first time. And if you believe I was being delibratley ambiguous in certain parts, I'm sure you can understand why when what we're talking about is one equally ambiguous news article.

 

[TommyTooter]

Why do you think these scholarships exist? Think beyond a period of 5-10 years.
I'm not going to elaborate any further, as I believe I was perfectly clear enough the first time. And if you believe I was being delibratley ambiguous in certain parts, I'm sure you can understand why when what we're talking about is one equally ambiguous news article.

well sir, no offense meant and i apologize if it comes off rude, but i have too full of an existence in the rw and two much more important issues that i'm discussing on multiple forums than to get into it with a reptile who considers himself an intellectual. i get paid a minimum of $50/hr to do research for clients.

i only do free research for people i really love and i can't tell whether i like you or not yet. i see potentials for you to go either way. if i do research for people i don't like, it's only to refute some dumb shit they posted. tp me, your opinions so far constitute dumb shit and if you continue to refuse to elaborate, i'm sure you can tell how i'll feel. i can't imagine that you're so smart and full of yourself that you don't know when you are pissing people off.

to me, the food safety modernization act demands a whole lot more of my attention than this circumstance.

add to that, that i'm in the middle of authoring a class action cyberbullying complaint against a half dozen forum owners and a substantial number of their members and i would suggest that if you are unwilling to get more specific about what you believe makes someone capable or incapable of pursuing higher education or explaining what you want me to look for in the future, we terminate this conversation here.

this forum and this community are being portrayed as well run, easy and laid back and casual, which along with offtopic which was likely a parent to this site --- i don't know the history yet so i can't say, are examples of the best of the forums that have sprouted up since the turn of the century. here, it doesn't seem to happen much, if at all, and at offtopic it gets shutdown and people get banned quick. the mods don't let threads get derailed by that kind of stuff, jump in with some threats and take down the offensive posts.

i've been away from my nest far too long and i'm going to pissed if i'm not there in the next hour. i also typed the previous sentence at least 17 minutes before i typed this one and quite a few others in between.

to give you something to relate to: i earned a bs in marine biology from utampa in '78 and failed to reach any agreement with our bushwhacked navy, so i went from bench to bench in chicago and dallas until 1985, when ronnie raygun, poppy bush and the rest of the bushwhackers decided to cut the funding for brown and goldstein right after i had been hired by their lab manager and before i had actually been accepted by them and signed in. they were out of town somewhere speaking when this all went down and i was waiting for their return when i got the good news. in case you or anybody else might be wondering, those are the guys who got a nobel prize for the lipoprotein work known as good cholesterol/bad cholesterol

another interesting pair at dallas i got to work under, albeit way under, was jc porter and macdonald. look them up sometime. i earned a few citations in jclinchem for running RIA's and crunching a lot of numbers 1980-2.


to paraphrase macdonald's remark to a green lab assistant when he asked if it was okay to order a fresh bottle of KOH, you're wasting more of my time than this conversation is worth.

please either elaborate or move on. i'm way too tired to play the game you're playing.

 

[Zorak]

well sir, no offense meant and i apologize if it comes off rude, but i have too full of an existence in the rw and two much more important issues that i'm discussing on multiple forums than to get into it with a reptile who considers himself an intellectual. i get paid a minimum of $50/hr to do research for clients.

i only do free research for people i really love and i can't tell whether i like you or not yet. i see potentials for you to go either way. if i do research for people i don't like, it's only to refute some dumb shit they posted. tp me, your opinions so far constitute dumb shit and if you continue to refuse to elaborate, i'm sure you can tell how i'll feel. i can't imagine that you're so smart and full of yourself that you don't know when you are pissing people off.

to me, the food safety modernization act demands a whole lot more of my attention than this circumstance.

add to that, that i'm in the middle of authoring a class action cyberbullying complaint against a half dozen forum owners and a substantial number of their members and i would suggest that if you are unwilling to get more specific about what you believe makes someone capable or incapable of pursuing higher education or explaining what you want me to look for in the future, we terminate this conversation here.

this forum and this community are being portrayed as well run, easy and laid back and casual, which along with offtopic which was likely a parent to this site --- i don't know the history yet so i can't say, are examples of the best of the forums that have sprouted up since the turn of the century. here, it doesn't seem to happen much, if at all, and at offtopic it gets shutdown and people get banned quick. the mods don't let threads get derailed by that kind of stuff, jump in with some threats and take down the offensive posts.

i've been away from my nest far too long and i'm going to pissed if i'm not there in the next hour. i also typed the previous sentence at least 17 minutes before i typed this one and quite a few others in between.

to give you something to relate to: i earned a bs in marine biology from utampa in '78 and failed to reach any agreement with our bushwhacked navy, so i went from bench to bench in chicago and dallas until 1985, when ronnie raygun, poppy bush and the rest of the bushwhackers decided to cut the funding for brown and goldstein right after i had been hired by their lab manager and before i had actually been accepted by them and signed in. they were out of town somewhere speaking when this all went down and i was waiting for their return when i got the good news. in case you or anybody else might be wondering, those are the guys who got a nobel prize for the lipoprotein work known as good cholesterol/bad cholesterol

another interesting pair at dallas i got to work under, albeit way under, was jc porter and macdonald. look them up sometime. i earned a few citations in jclinchem for running RIA's and crunching a lot of numbers 1980-2.


to paraphrase macdonald's remark to a green lab assistant when he asked if it was okay to order a fresh bottle of KOH, you're wasting more of my time than this conversation is worth.

please either elaborate or move on. i'm way too tired to play the game you're playing.

Don't flatter yourself, I didn't even read this.

 

[TommyTooter]

well then let me just say, fuck you and let you know that i'll be reading your brain farts very closely in the future, lizard lips.

your facts had best be verifiable and your conjecture had best be logically sound or i will be compelled to disprove your little pseudo-intellectual spews every time i see them.

people with any sense usually discover quickly that they get more gratification from me as a friend than a foe. you apparently lack the depth to see that. your loss.

don't worry about seeing too much critical posting from me toward you. i really don't have much time to even read threads i didn't author since i'm juggling at least one and sometimes more conversations through several forums as well as read a whole mess that i don't post very often in when i'm online. i only read the threads that interest me and even threads that have someone posting in it i have no desire to interact with i won't.

it will surprise me to learn that you are older than 25 or younger than 60 if you're over 25 based on the arrogance and bullshit pontificating i've seen out of you here. if you want the last word, by all means, take it. when things get as retarded as this has, i like to let the other guy be the retard to make the lasting impression.

in closing, let me congratulate you and thank you for being the first person to cop an attitude with me at offtopicz
instead of pontificating about how ambiguous the news report we're using is, i'm out looking for something better.

have you?

i'll bet you're a real hoot wankin' on that git fiddle, too.