'Under God' Issue Back in Court

[All Else Failed]

The idea of Diety is not religion

its pretty clear and obvious that when they put it in they meant the Christian god.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

The word GOD is used in the very first paragraph of the Constitution, The word CREATOR is used in the next.

Let's burn that one too, obviously they were telling us that God existed and the ACLU was not our creator.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

its pretty clear and obvious that when they put it in they meant the Christian god.

Where is that defined...I am currently looking at the Constitution and the amendments as we speak, give me the section and I'll read it and concede.

I think the liberals WANT to make everyone think that

 

[All Else Failed]

The word GOD is used in the very first paragraph of the Constitution, The word CREATOR is used in the next.

Let's burn that one too, obviously they were telling us that God existed and the ACLU was not our creator.

are you thinking of the declaration of independence?

 

[dt3]

its pretty clear and obvious that when they put it in they meant the Christian god.

How is it obvious?

 

[All Else Failed]

Where is that defined...I am currently looking at the Constitution and the amendments as we speak, give me the section and I'll read it and concede.

I think the liberals WANT to make everyone think that

I'm talking about the pledge.

 

[Dodge_Sniper]

first off, I don't like the guy. I think he's annoying. But I agree with the fact that it is in fact endorsing religion, which the federal government cannot do. Its in the constitution, in plain black and white. No one had a problem with the pledge the way it originally was:​

In its original form it read:

"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."​

In 1923, the words, "the Flag of the United States of America" were added. At this time it read:

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."​

In 1954, in response to the Communist threat of the times, President Eisenhower encouraged Congress to add the words "under God," creating the 31-word pledge we say today. Bellamy's daughter objected to this alteration. Today it reads:

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."​

So basically, the only reason why "under god" is even there, is because of politics, not some "christian roots, moral values" kind of stuff. We should have it the way it was intended to be: Secular.​

Although I see what you mean, if it was because of threats back then, we've got threats to our country even more now, what with this war and all. Maybe it comforts some of our country's citizens to keep it the way it is.

As for my opinion, I could care less either way. I just think it's ridiculous that most teachers in the school I go to damn near force you to stand during the pledge. It's not like I'm gonna bomb the country, I just don't wanna stand up

They're talking about personal stuff, like no one can stop you from going to church, praying in your own home/property etc etc, and that is a GOOD THING. BUT, once you try to establish religion in the PUBLIC SECTOR, THAT is illegal.

It's not illegal to support religion in public. If it was, all those people that sit on the sidewalks and do that "Honk if you...whatever" and hand out bibles would be in jail.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...."


If a government in any way establishes religion, they endorse it through supporting it.

Read what you posted. They can't make a LAW respecting religion. Nobody forces you to say the pledge, or say "Under God".

 

[All Else Failed]

How is it obvious?

America is largely made up of Christians

They put it in the pledge because of the "godless commies"

what do you think they were referring to, Buddha?

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

are you thinking of the declaration of independence?

No I am reading it, I said Constitution. Apoligies.

Regardless....Were they implying that we were created? Were they implying there was a God?

They said nothing of Christian, Buddhist, Muslim....Just Creator and God.

So it was okay to say that in 1776.....But now?

I guess if they had coffee shops back then the Declaration never would have happened?

 

[All Else Failed]

Although I see what you mean, if it was because of threats back then, we've got threats to our country even more now, what with this war and all. Maybe it comforts some of our country's citizens to keep it the way it is.

As for my opinion, I could care less either way. I just think it's ridiculous that most teachers in the school I go to damn near force you to stand during the pledge. It's not like I'm gonna bomb the country, I just don't wanna stand up



It's not illegal to support religion in public. If it was, all those people that sit on the sidewalks and do that "Honk if you...whatever" and hand out bibles would be in jail.



Read what you posted. They can't make a LAW respecting religion. Nobody forces you to say the pledge, or say "Under God".

Its illegal for the government to support it in public, though. Not private citizens.

there doesn't need to be a law, they fact that the federal government supports it makes it an endorsement.

 

[All Else Failed]

No I am reading it, I said Constitution. Apoligies.

Regardless....Were they implying that we were created? Were they implying there was a God?

They said nothing of Christian, Buddhist, Muslim....Just Creator and God.

So it was okay to say that in 1776.....But now?

I guess if they had coffee shops back then the Declaration never would have happened?

even if they did mean it that way, the constitution is a living document and can be amended to better accommodate a more secularist way of doing things.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

America is largely made up of Christians

They put it in the pledge because of the "godless commies"

what do you think they were referring to, Buddha?

The large population at that time were hardline...Vastly more religios than we are today.

You think the Christians are hard asses, can you imagine what a Puritan would say about this?

 

[All Else Failed]

The large population at that time were hardline...Vastly more religios than we are today.

You think the Christians are hard asses, can you imagine what a Puritan would say about this?

I'm still talking about the pledge and the congress during the red scare, though.

 

[dt3]

I'd be offended if they took it out.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

even if they did mean it that way, the constitution is a living document and can be amended to better accommodate a more secularist way of doing things.

Okay....But my point is this.....You are saying that they were just going with the times..Right? And now....God does not need to be anywhere, on money, in schools, because we have basically become genetically superior to our ancestors?

It's arrogant to think that time are any more difficult now then they were then.

The problem we have now....Way too much time on our hands to pick things that make us uncomfortable apart, you forget that bacjk then, government was not a full time job. Now it's a career, and so is all the bullshit and lobbyists.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

I'm still talking about the pledge and the congress during the red scare, though.

How can you look at just what you think will defend your case, without looking at the history of the ducuments YOU claim make you right?

 

[All Else Failed]

I'd be offended if they took it out.

why you can still go to church and pray

are you offended at the original wording?

 

[All Else Failed]

Okay....But my point is this.....You are saying that they were just going with the times..Right? And now....God does not need to be anywhere, on money, in schools, because we have basically become genetically superior to our ancestors?

It's arrogant to think that time are any more difficult now then they were then.

The problem we have now....Way too much time on our hands to pick things that make us uncomfortable apart, you forget that bacjk then, government was not a full time job. Now it's a career, and so is all the bullshit and lobbyists.

no, because we live in a much more advanced, and progressive world where we can't be sop narrow minded.

 

[dt3]

why you can still go to church and pray

are you offended at the original wording?

I'm not a church-goer. And no, the original wording doesn't offend me.

 

[All Else Failed]

I'm not a church-goer. And no, the original wording doesn't offend me.

Then why would you be offended?

Let me guess: Tradition.